Forum Topic

Obese and overweight guilty.

It seems that over 64% of UK adults are clinically obese or overweight. This costs the NHS(us) many millions of £s a year to treat. Its been suggested that fat people should be made to take weight reducing measures, to save unnecessary costs to the nation. I think this is a good idea and I'd go further and make people who choose to smoke pay for their future treatment for conditions caused by smoking. Is this unreasonable thinking or sensible?

Gerry Tan ● 4325d38 Comments

Ha ha Susan. Mr Eric Pickles would make a perfect 'before and after' example.

Gerry Tan ● 4315d

But, Gerry, the point is that Pickles would lead the way, by example, and we would all slim together. That's what happened in the American city as the mayor was himself obese.I'm waiting for the police to go and arrest my parents.

Susan Kelly ● 4316d

With respect Susan, Mr Eric Pickles is the last person I'd choose to front-up your "Let's Lose Weight" campaign. Better someone like Sir George Young - now there's a paragon of slim virtue, imo.

Gerry Tan ● 4316d

Great idea.  LOL I heard Eric Pickles referred to along the lines of "Not the kind of person you would trust to hold your bacon sandwich while you nipped to the loo" on one of the comedy programmes.Frighteningly we seem to be following America in becoming supersized.  Poor Jamie Oliver suffered when he tried to teach to show people how to eat better there.  A lot of people do seem to value cheap food and vast portions more than quality.

Philippa Bond ● 4316d

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/diet-fitness/article4111188.eceYet another opinion.

Philippa Bond ● 4316d

If I were the Dept of Health, I would be trying to get together with the BBC to start a massive 'Let's lose weight' campaign -- getting a bit of competition going in communities. Something like this was done in an American city (forget which one, sorry) with impressive results as it went from one of the fattest cities in the US to one of the healthiest in a couple of years.Eric Pickles would be the obvious front man for this, just as the obese mayor of the American City got the whole thing going.

Susan Kelly ● 4317d

Susan and Jaz, it was I who said 64%...etc...I may have been wrong, for which I apologise, but you all get the drift of what I was saying. The facts are that generally there are more and more of us who are overweight OR obese and this is worrying.

Gerry Tan ● 4317d

No one has ever suggested that 64% of the population is clinically obese. As I said earlier, overweight and obese get lumped in together as if the two words were synonymous when they are not.

Susan Kelly ● 4317d

Just want to remind everybody that 64% of the population are not clincially obese, 64% of people have a BMI that says that they are clincially obsese, very differnt to actually being obsese. Have a good look tomorrow at all the people you pass and decide for yourself.

Jaz Brown ● 4317d

I'm an engineer, but I am an honoury member of the undiplomatic service.Actually, I would probably find your films very interesting and may even have watched some of them.As a boy in the early seventies I watched loads of daytime Trade Test transmissions on the new BBC2 colour service:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_test_colour_filmsWere any of these yours?

Tony Colliver ● 4317d

A given talent, is a talent no lesser than any other, and I'm quite sure those that chose to watch them enjoyed the immensely.

Tracey Mehdizadeh ● 4318d

Nothing boring about Meccano and loads of engineers 'cut their teeth' on that stuff.As for train sets, love 'em.Each to their own.

Nigel Brooks ● 4319d

But you must have had a fave Gerry?Are any on YouTube?That bloke off Top Gear makes shows about boring subjects like Train Sets and Meccano, but they are watched and enjoyed by loads of people.

Debbie Edwards ● 4319d

They weren't entertaining 'show biz' films Tracey and Debbie, they were boring industrial ones of machinery, industrial processes and the like which few viewed and even fewer remembered.

Gerry Tan ● 4319d

Oh tell more Gerry please

Tracey Mehdizadeh ● 4319d

What kind of films Gerry?Anything we might have seen and finally what is, in your opinion, the best film you have made?

Debbie Edwards ● 4319d

Unfortunately no Tony. I used to make films, but I've been retired now for a quarter of a century(happily).And you?

Gerry Tan ● 4319d

You didn't used to be in the diplomatic service did you Gerry?  :-)

Tony Colliver ● 4319d

In many ways, both Diane and Marion agree - they differ only in the way they express themselves. Both say eat less, eat healthily and exercise and I think I agree as well. Also imo, BMI is a clumsy and inaccurate phrase anyway.

Gerry Tan ● 4320d

Diane it is not about eating less and exercising more.  It is about learning to eat exactly what you want when you are hungry, stop when you are full and to ensure everything eaten satisfies and that activity is fun. It is not about deprivation or denial which only and always leads to binge behaviour.

Marion Dunn ● 4320d

Anyone who is looking to improve their fitness in a fun, social environment should pop along to Hanwell RFC & W5 Physio's Free Touch Rugby in Elthorne Park every Tuesday (at 7pm). Touch Rugby is NON CONTACT so is suitable for both men and women to play together. We separate players by fitness and standard so you play against people of a similar level to yourself (yes even beginners).#GetHanwellFit

John Bodman ● 4320d

I'm not being simple about it, often there are deep rooted issues in terms of why people are overweight. Certainly my overweight friend has some major issues stemming from her childhood. Fundamentally though in order to lose and maintain weight loss what I said still stands - eat less, eat healthily and exercise more.  Any nutritionist, personal trainer will tell people that.

Diane Gill ● 4320d

Diane I think you will find it more complex than that.  If it was as easy as eat less and exercise more we would not have an "obesity epidemic" and weight watchers would not be one of the great financial successes of the modern world.  Successful at making money but not for providing a sustainable weight loss system for 95% of its participants. Fat people will always say what they need to say to deflect from the blame and shame culture and because repeated diets have made them feel failures and that being overweight is their fault so they must make excuses for it.

Marion Dunn ● 4320d

OK Marion I get it, but the overweight people I know are this way because they eat too much and exercise too little - and they admit it too!

Diane Gill ● 4320d

A few facts.  BMI is not a good indicator of health or fitness.  Secondly the biggest cause of obesity is dieting.  Diets fail in 95% of the population not because they are weak willed or lazy but because the body rebels against any enforced eating plan that reduces calories or tells people what to eat instead of helping them to recognise hunger, fullness and satisfaction.  Finally have you ever wondered why weight watchers and similar organisations do not publish their figures for long term success.  They are a hugely successful business because less than 5% of people succeed - the rest are repeat business.  Finally without knowing people's histories do not just lump them together as fat or obese people.  They are people with all sorts of reasons for inhabiting the body shape they have.  Stop shaming and blaming and start reading the research.  http://www.intuitiveeating.com/

Marion Dunn ● 4324d

Even your GP must be able to tell the difference between 3lbs overweight and 3 stone overweight, Gerry. I saw statistics a couple of years ago which showed that people who were up to half a stone 'overweight' had the highest life expectancy of all.

Susan Kelly ● 4324d

With respect to your slight overweight, my GP wouldn't agree with your point of view.

Gerry Tan ● 4325d

On the subject of BMI, or even old-fashioned height/weight tables which performed the same function, it's always made clear that the tables do not apply to children or to anyone who is unusually heavily muscled, such as an athlete or fire fighter.Why people who call themselves health professionals, such as GPs or school nurses, can't grasp this fact is beyond me.

Susan Kelly ● 4325d

Whatever the tax and fiscal implications of this subject and its funding, obesity and overweightedness kills one prematurely - there's no arguement about that. And smoking too.

Gerry Tan ● 4325d

I find it odd that they insist on lumping overweight and obese in together as one category. Being a few pounds overweight is unlikely to cause any health problems whereas obesity is another matter. These statistics need to be collected separately.

Susan Kelly ● 4325d

Diane and Jaz, I think you're correct in saying that BMI is an inaccurate measure of obesity.  One need only use one's eyes to see those parents and their children(and others) who are obese/fat - there are far too many of them who are clinically at risk imo.

Gerry Tan ● 4325d

Maybe smokers shouldn't be treated by the NHS, it costs the NHS about £2.5 billion, the treasury collect about £12.5 billion in tobacco tax so they could fund private treatment for smokers from the £10 billion surplus.

Fred Hunt ● 4325d

I agree with Jaz about the BMI. When my son was in reception I got a letter home saying he was obese! Far from it, he has a little tummy but that's it.  He is now 7 and yesterday we walked around 6 miles on our holiday in East Devon, including a very steep incline from the beach up a cliff. He plays tennis, rugby and football. I'm not saying obviously overweight people shouldn't help themselves, but we do need a better way of measuring what overweight means.

Diane Gill ● 4325d

So would you make people who drive pay for their own care if they had an accident ? You can get lung cancer without having smoke at all - how would you deal with that ? If the government didn't get all that tax from cigarettes and drink it would have to come from somewhere else.  The issue is very complicated I think.

Pat Kingham ● 4325d

I meant weigh not way. Also I would like to point out that smokers pay  loads and loads of tax. That's why the government has not banned smoking.

Jaz Brown ● 4325d

I would like to point out that Body Mass index, the way in which we are classed as obese, really is what can I say, misleading. According to BMI my 21 yr old is obese, actually he is incredibly fit, runs, goes to the gym plays football, eats really healthy, however muscle ways more that fat. By that I mean a muscular size 10, would way heavier that a non-muscular size 10. As a size 12 I was told I was 1 kg away from being obese. I told the doctor that I was glad I wasn't a paranoid teenager who would now go and diet when she did not need to and maybe become anorexic. The old pinch more than an inch I beleive is a far more indicator of being overweight than what you weigh.

Jaz Brown ● 4325d

You ask a good question Philip, but its costs the NHS a fortune to treat them while they're still alive. I think if anyone chooses a risky lifestyle(willingly and out of sheer selfishness), then they should pay the costs to the NHS(and thus the nation), imo.

Gerry Tan ● 4325d

Just a thought.  If overweight people and/or smokers tend to die younger does this not also cut costs for the State for the likes of reduced pension payouts, no long term care costs etc etc?

Philip Coe ● 4325d