Forum Topic

Should Halal food be lablled?

With recent discussion in the media about the labelling of Halal food should supermarkets and restaurants advise customers which foods are Halal? Surely people should be told?It is surprising that the RSPCA has not stepped in to stop this practice.The other topic I would like comments on is Genetically Modified foods, consumers do not seem to have a choice on these matters, we should have a say on whether or not we wish to buy such products.I think all food should be clearly labelled and then it is up to the customer whether or not to buy.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4288d37 Comments

I would really like to know more about Hallal Requirements .What exactly makes the meat HALLAL?Is it the recitatation of a prayer made by anybody or only muslim? Can someone transalate the prayer words?.Thanks

Os A Whittle ● 4280d

That and you can't exsanguinate a dead animal.

Paul James ● 4282d

Because stunners do not require firearms licences as the 'bolt' is captive.

Nigel Brooks ● 4282d

Indeed, but I have never understood why they stop at "stun".Why not set the "gun" to "kill" and be done with it in one fell swoop?

Tony Colliver ● 4282d

> ...the animal has to 'hear' the prayer.There you are - prima facia evidence of torture.Yours, An Athiest

Tony Colliver ● 4282d

Chris. All of the lamb that comes out of new Zealand is halal, but it's stunned before slaughter.

Paul James ● 4283d

Very interesting meaning and understanding of Kosher foods - thanks for posting Philippa.

Gerry Tan ● 4283d

So it is not kosher to eat the "extra protein" that Dad used to bring in with his veg from the garden!http://www.koshercertification.org.uk/whatdoe.html

Philippa Bond ● 4283d

I've just eaten yesterday's cold meals-on-wheels equivalent of lasagne - and very good it was too. (We all went out to lunch instead and stopping it can cause problems with the resumption of service which could be disastrous.  So somehow this is easier.)I've got pretty good at making Spanish omelettes and do a lot more experimenting than I used to!  As a child lunch at home was always a meal made up of things that needed using up - including veg from the garden and lots of soup.

Philippa Bond ● 4283d

We don't compost else our 'food recycling' bin would be empty each week.As it is it only ever contains eggshells, peelings and the very rare 'burned offering' when the toaster 'throws a wobbly':-)

Nigel Brooks ● 4283d

Aghhh  Will just have to go and get some lunch now!

Philippa Bond ● 4284d

Gerry, stop it you are making me hungry! ;-)PS We never waste meat either, it's too expensive to throw awY!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4284d

We never throw away uneaten meat - we're dedicated carnivores - yesterday, we bought a packet of prepared stir fry veg with a sachet of hoisin sauce and a small piece if sirloin beef and cut the steak into smallish pieces and made delicious stir fried veg - ate every morsel.

Gerry Tan ● 4284d

If you are interested in animal welfare surely the question is whether the animal has been stunned before slaughter or not and not the particular religious prayers?To me the fact that so many people buy meat and then throw it away uneaten is equally if not more abhorrent.

Philippa Bond ● 4284d

I was listening to the radio yesterday to caller who was a veterinary neurosurgeon. He was clear that 'non-stunned' sheep which have their carotid artery severed to 'bleed out' suffer intense pain for between, if I recall correctly, seven and twenty seconds and cattle up to a full minute.Barbaric!

Nigel Brooks ● 4284d

Gerry - what's the "misinformation and ignorance" about Halal to which you refer?The facts seem pretty clear cut - slitting the throats of animals without stunning them first causes significant and entirely avoidable distress. The distress is most acute in larger animals such as cows - in the last British Veterinary Observational study in abattoirs, 13% of cows tried to stagger to their feet AFTER their throats were cut, and measures of brain activity shows they are conscious for up to 3 minutes after their throats are slit - because the arteries on the back of the neck that also supply blood to the brain are not cut:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2603360/Horror-halal-slaughterhouse-Shocking-undercover-film-shows-needless-suffering-livestock-butchered-without-stunned-first.htmlThe second fact is that despite being a small proportion of the population, the MAJORITY of lamb and chicken available in supermarkets and restaurants is now slaughtered to suit the wishes of Muslims - the wishes of the majority / non muslims are not taken into account and in many cases it's very difficult for non muslims to exercise their right to not eat halal.So basically more than half of sheep and chickens are now slaughtered in a manner proven to be cruel, and the majority of the population are now eating it and have no way of exercising their own right to choice due to a lack of labelling,Which of these facts are wrong?

Chris Martin ● 4284d

Of course it should, and WHERE can I get non-Halal meat, particularly fowl, in Ealing?

Peter Mcleod ● 4286d

It is clear that there's lots of misinformation and ignorance about Halal, Kosher and other religion-based food beliefs. It doesn't much affect me 'cos I eat and enjoy all types of food.  But to some its important, so I'd like to see clearer and accurate product information displayed in shops and supermarkets.Which leads me to ask:  Which supermarket displays the best and most useful food product information?

Gerry Tan ● 4287d

>So, you are happy that an animal suffers extreme pain and dies from blood loss?Have you ever cut yourself with a sharp knife?It doesn't hurt, well not for a while, and if that cut is to an artery in your neck you're not going to be conscious long enough to feel any pain anyway.Animals that have their throats cut don't go down screaming, they just pass out.

Paul James ● 4287d

I think the legislation is more to do with animal welfare that slaughterman's ease Paul. At least that's the case in conventional slaughterhouses.

Keith Iddon ● 4287d

>My answer would be to label the meat as either "religiously slaughtered" or "not religiously slaughtered"That doesn't tell the purchaser if the animal was stunned or not before it was slaughtered though.At the moment it's unclear. As I understand it Kosher would mean it is not stunned, and halal means it may have been.If they just said "from an animal that was/was not stunned before slaughter" then people could make an informed choice.>As for stunned, surely this just means the animal is unconscious, so will the cut to the throat not force it to wake up? And therefore be in great shock, trauma etc...?As I understand it the stunning process is just to make it easier for the slaughtermen as they don't have to deal with a conscious animal.

Paul James ● 4287d

To be fair, it is not the muslim community that is objecting to the Halal label on their meats. Since the late 1930s 75% of a kosher slaughtered beast has been declared non-kosher and is sold back to the non-religious meat market (before then it was a specialised and very expensive job to remove the non-kosher bits, like veins etc..). To label it as kosher slaughtered, now that it is no longer seen as kosher by kosher authorities will bring enormous problems to that market, and could result in all kosher meat being imported. My answer would be to label the meat as either "religiously slaughtered" or "not religiously slaughtered" without mentioning Halal or Kosher. That gives us the choice to buy or not to buy it, and the religiously slaughtered could be use a budget priced supermarket meats. Obviously it can still carry halal/kosher labels if intended for those markets.As for stunned, surely this just means the animal is unconscious, so will the cut to the throat not force it to wake up? And therefore be in great shock, trauma etc...?

Leslie Bailey ● 4287d

Sorry...'Neither does it insist on stunning but who's to know?'

Keith Iddon ● 4288d

Neither does it insist on slaughter but who's to know?

Keith Iddon ● 4288d

Halal does not ban stunning before slaughter.What's the problem with eating halal meat for you if the animal is stunned first?

Paul James ● 4288d

Eating does not ban stunning before slaughter.What's the problem with eating halal meat for you if the animal is stunned first?

Paul James ● 4288d

Quite.

Keith Iddon ● 4288d

Don't get Paul's point.If Jews and Muslims wish to insist that their religion prevails over non members of their religion as regards animal slaughter, they might (along with the food suppliers) have the decency to tell us what is going on. They might also pay greater regard to the fact that this country gets seriously passionate about animal treatment. For example hunting.They could also remember that they are in a minority living in a democracy, and not as the WW1 German Chancellor allegedly complained about, in a house of correction. If other countries,, as reported in the Press do not allow animals to be slaughtered at all without them being firstly made unconscious,then who are we to have a different set of rules?

George Knox ● 4288d

Seems that there is also a 'problem' for some in having pork and pork products prepared in the same kitchen or area as halal, leading in some cases to bacon and bangers being taken off the menu in schools/hospitals and in some take aways  so that those of us of a secular and accommodating nature who like a bacon butty etc. are ourselves given short shrift by a lack of compromise on the part of a minority.

Keith Iddon ● 4288d

I agree Keith, we as paying customers surely have the right to know exactly what we are buying, the choice should be ours not foisted upon us!As for labelling, surely all that is required is a small extra label with the word Halal or Kosher on it - problem solved. That way the consumers have a choice.for religious reasons some sections of thr community will not eat certain foods such as pork, well we wouldn't force them to buy these items, it is their choice, equally the rest of us should also have that option.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4288d

In halal slaughter doesn't the spinal cord go unsevered until the animal has bled to death? Possibly in kosher slaughter to but I may be wrong. As to whether it should be labelled, of course it should. The more we know about how our food lands on our plate the better and it would give those of us who do not want our meat slaughtered in this way the chance to avoid it. It should not be imposed on anyone, including in schools, hospitals etc. but it should be an option there.

Keith Iddon ● 4288d

So, you are happy that an animal suffers extreme pain and dies from blood loss?Bolting is horrific, but the 'stun and cut' method is now far more widespread according to the two 'experts' on Radio 4 yesterday.

Nigel Brooks ● 4288d

I've seen it done. If done carefully the animal just passes out after about 10 seconds.I've seen bolting done too, horrific! You do know the animal is still alive right?

Paul James ● 4288d

The vast majority of 'Halal' animals are stunned prior to ritual slaughter and the only difference to the 'normal' process is that a prayer is said prior to the stunning as, IIRC, the animal has to 'hear' the prayer.I do however have an issue with the 10-15% of animals where no stunning takes place and this is simply barbaric.

Nigel Brooks ● 4288d

The current outrage was mostly about pizza hut chicken right?Pizza hut said the chickens are stunned prior to slaughter.So whats the problem?

Paul James ● 4288d

I agree that all foodstuffs should be labelled so that transparency and the fullest of facts are displayed. Also whether its Halal or Kosher or whatever. But, is there enough space on smaller food items and do busy shoppers have time to study every label? I doubt it.As for GM foods - its the inevitable way of the future if we have to ensure there's no starvation in the world imo.

Gerry Tan ● 4288d

It's been discussed on this and the Brentford website several times.I had been buying Halal meat for many years in the mistaken belief that it was animals fed a purer diet to meet the requirements of purity.It was only when abroad that I discovered that this was not quite the case and that it is all in the slaughter.It is simply barbaric and medieval, and the animal suffers.There really is no excuse in a progressive society irrespective of religious or cultural belief. And most certainly not to make it the norm in schools and hospitals without informing everyone.We have had much trouble with the meat industry with BSE, Horsemeat being passed of as beef or lamb and so on.But much has been done to ensure that the most humane methods possible are deployed to minimise suffering to an animal over the last 60 years and especially over the last decade.Quite amusing to see that two cultures, Islam and Judism, who in the present era always seem to be at each others throats, happily colluded led by Gerald Kaufmann MP to pass a bill on Halal and Kosher meat in schools.Should Halal or Kosher slaughter be permitted in the UK?  It is a leap backwards and not necessary.  If other faiths can move with the times and keep the faith intact then surely these ones can as well.But to force it upon unwitting others not of those faiths is as bad as feeding pork to Jews or Muslims.If it has to be, then all meat has to be clearly labelled for all. Meanwhile.

Anthony Waller ● 4288d