Forum Topic

Waste Transfer Notes (WTNs) and Ealing Rubbish Collection

Ealing Council is sending out its annual raft of Waste Transfer Note (WTN) forms that feature its business waste contractor Amey to businesses in Ealing. Businesses not using Ealing/Amey need to obtain a WTN for April 2014 to March 2015 from their OWN waste contractor and not complete the Ealing sourced form.See:http://www.360environmental.co.uk/legislation/waste_legislation/duty_of_care/An businesses getting rid of business waste needs to have a WTN, however, filling in the Ealing form (which comes without advice) may open up the signee to billing for Ealing/Amey for commercial waste services that are additional to their own private contract.YOU DO NOT NEED TO HAVE A WTN with EALING. However, YOU NEED TO HAVE A WTN with YOUR private waste removal contractor.You have been warned.

Peter Mcleod ● 4326d21 Comments

You asked about Waste Transfer Notes.  I replied to you.Commercial Waste is not the same as Household Waste.I don't know exactly what this Council is doing and sending.  What I do know is that Waste Transfer Notes are needed to transfer any and all waste.  Carriers of waste have to be licensed.  This is a national thing not just an Ealing Council thing. They also want to make sure that you are looking after any waste properly and have a contract to have it regularly removed. Duty of Care Regulations.In order to stop the dumping of waste and illegal transfer of waste and fly-tipping which costs the Council (and those of us who pay Council Tax) thousands and thousands of pounds, the Council has to make sure that people have the correct paperwork.  Whether the interpretation of the law is correct or agreed is often subject to dispute.  Defra itself was taken to Judicial Review not that long ago.  What is personal about that?  I don't know why they were arguing about it.

Philippa Bond ● 4319d

Philippa, you make it sound like a personal attack on me and my business. People who go around accusing people of doing things wrong or having problems are usually "projecting", that is finding the faults in other people that they have in themselves. I do not understand why you are so emphatic in defending  this WTN forms and mailing that are costing a lot of money that could be better spent on the ill, disabled, etc.

Peter Mcleod ● 4320d

You're right Philippa, we generate far too much domestic waste - I get quite ashamed at the state of our refridgerator at times.

Gerry Tan ● 4320d

Just pointing out that there are plenty of reasons why LBE will be interested in how you are disposing of your waste.  There are lots of rules about commercial waste nowadays and they keep changing (hopefully getting better as we head towards zero waste and better solutions become available).Of course their contractors will want your custom! However, the less waste you make the less you will have to pay to dispose of.

Philippa Bond ● 4320d

What tenants Ms.Bond, WHERE, WHO? I am mystified.

Peter Mcleod ● 4321d

Philippa, why are you grinding on about crimes I have not committed? There is a problem with the way WTNs are being administered by the LB of E which is clearly spending a lot of money in these hard-pressed times on things that are unnecessary and possibly illegal. Should you not be worrying about these as opposed to whether I have confessed my sins, worn my hair shirt for sufficient days this week and washed behind my ears today?

Peter Mcleod ● 4321d

I presume that you are following all the other rules like making sure that your waste is being stored properly and taken away regularly and completely - because I've come across managing agents who don't do that - and it causes problems for the tenants.

Philippa Bond ● 4321d

Some of us have been saying that they should get out of their offices for a long time and walking the walk. They are probably less likely to be harangued by a serviced computer though and it probably doesn't ask difficult questions!I'm sure Envirocrime Officers were one of the jobs cut.  The problem is they seemed to have missed out bits of the contract or they failed to see that contractors are notoriously poor at monitoring themselves.Sir Gerry Robinson would be out seeing what is actually happening.

Philippa Bond ● 4323d

Philippa,Who know WHY they are sending out all these forms for WTNs, all I know is that they don't need to, and the recipients do not need to complete the forms. It seems to me that a few more envirocrime officers on the beat checking that waste put is legal and not just "dumped" would be more effective than the administrative overhead of setting up a computer system to do this, the cost of the people involved, not to mention the custom-designed forms and postage. Perhaps moving the bureaucrats out of their offices and having them don high-vis jackets and a clipboard might tn somewhat more effective.

Peter Mcleod ● 4324d

http://www.recyclemetals.org/about_metal_recycling

Philippa Bond ● 4324d

Well if your business is in the London Borough of Ealing then you would expect Ealing Council to want to make sure everything was OK!  They'll want to make sure that it is not your waste that is being dumped around the borough and elsewhere and because you are a business making business waste they will want to make sure that you are not abusing the household waste and recycling system which householders pay Council Tax to use!  Chill out - they may even have some good ideas as to other and better uses for your waste - you never know!As we progress towards zero waste there may be more and different opportunities for reuse and there are also changing rules eg the change in law re scrap metal dealers paying cash.When you do your waste audit you will be able to see what waste you are making and how it can be reduced or altered as you go along and as the type of waste you make changes and the markets change.

Philippa Bond ● 4324d

DEFINITELY APPROVED. Frequent visits by the Ealing Council Reps to try and sell its commercial waste service to us where they would only leave once they had seen our contract and paperwork - stuff that they do not have any legal right to see, however, we couldn't shift them until they had seen it, read it, argued about...

Peter Mcleod ● 4324d

Peter:  You have checked that your private contractor is a licensed waste carrier, haven't you?You can do this online now.http://epr.environment-agency.gov.uk/ePRInternet/SearchRegisters.aspxToo many people pay money and then their waste is just dumped around the corner.

Philippa Bond ● 4324d

Your waste is your responsibility Peter.  So long as you are responsible I don't really see that you have a problem.We don't know what the deal was when LBE contracted out.  They also contracted out the responsibility for the Reuse & Recycling Centres to Enterprise.  I have heard that that is why once you have taken something there it is no longer yours and cannot be taken away by someone else.  Presumably because it is now the Contractors'.  Unfortunately they don't reuse and recycle as much as a lot of us would like.  (I have heard that they have had a grant to improve at least one of them.)I can still see the face of someone who took something there which was perfectly useable but which they were told to put in the crusher.If you can find a loving home for something closer to home -  or a charity of your choice then use it.  This sort of posting by me won't please them I'm sure as presumably they lose money.

Philippa Bond ● 4324d

If Ealing Council collects no rubbish for free from businesses why is it trying to get them to sign up for Waste Transfer Notices (WTNs) with itself and Amey as a minr partner on the form?Could it have something to do with the fact that Ealing Council charges £2.50 for removing a bag of waste, while a private contractor will do it for £1.20?As to my waste: I compost everything compostable, and even the cardboard and waste paper ends up as part of my no-dig garden mulch. Wood is fed into into a wood burner, and metal stuff gets recycled.

Peter Mcleod ● 4324d

I'm not sure that the Cooking Oil collection is still free, is it?Certainly taking cooking oil out of the drains is a good idea as it avoids a lot of problems caused by it.Are you applying the Waste Hierarchy to your waste?

Philippa Bond ● 4324d

The only reason that I can see in getting every business in Ealing to sign a Waste Transfer Note with Ealing Council would be for the "implicit" uptake of some of the free services such as the collection of waste cooking oil. In this way Ealing Council/Mahfouz/Bell, etc. could say that they had had a 30 percent take up of these services due to the forms completed and returned by businesses without underestanding what they were returning if one third of the businesses "mail shotted" complied.To comment further on your now much clearer explanation of Waste Transfer Notes you say that your Waste Transfer Note does not have to be with the Council. In fact, your Waste Transfer Note MUST NOT BE with the Council if you are using a private business waste contractor, it must be with, and PROVIDED BY the private waste contractor. If Ealing Council is your business waste removal contractor it has to provide you with a Waste Transfer Note, you do not need to complete a form to Ealing Council to get a Waste Transfer Note, it is something that you automatically get as a by-product of ENTERING INTO A COMMERCIAL WASTE COLLECTION SERVICE CONTRACT with the Council.As far as I am aware, Ealing Council does not provide a commercial waste collection service directly? Or does it? I thought that it was done via a sub-contractor.Anyway, something is not right here.

Peter Mcleod ● 4324d

The form came with no covering letter or explanation and is very cryptic. It seems to be part of a universal mail out to all businesses in Ealing, which as most of them use private waste removal contractors seems to be rather a waste of public money.All our waste goes into bags that is being taken away by a registered private contractor and we have been visited regularly by Ealing Council officials trying to induce us to take council services who show great interest in examining our contract with our service provider so Ealing Council must know what our status is.

Peter Mcleod ● 4324d

A Waste Transfer Note is the paper audit that a business needs to use to transfer any waste to a licensed and registered waste carrier.Most businesses will be using more than one licensed contractor to take their waste away.  For instance the cooking oil collector won't be the same as the waste electricals collector who won't be the same as the residual waste contractor.As a business you MUST have a contract with a registered waste collection company - but as you say this doesn't have to be the Council's contractor.  Somebody should be checking that you do have a contract. I'm not sure that Ealing Council itself actually knows what it contracted out.  It seems to have been finding out recently what it didn't.  The legislation is changing regarding waste all the time and you need to make sure that you are up to date. Obviously the less you have the less of a problem and the less of a cost it will be.Have you replied to the Council and/or Amey telling them that you already have a contract?  Have you checked that covers you regarding any new legislation?

Philippa Bond ● 4324d

Ms. Bond, I think you are completely missing the point altogether. A business with a contract with a private supplier should NOT have a WTN with the Council:). The Council has got it very wrong. A busines without a WTN with its private contractor is open to prosecution. A business with a WTN with its private contractor should not have a WTN with the Council itself. Signing a WTN with the Council by ticking all the boxes on the form sent out would act as a contract between the business and the Council.I would suggest that you review the form being sent out by the Council. What you have provided in your post does not actually help anyone who has received one of these forms, it reads like a manifesto statement.

Peter Mcleod ● 4325d

"Commercial waste collectionAny waste generated in commercial premises is considered commercial waste. Commercial outlets must have a legal contract with a registered waste company (such as Ealing Council) and must be able to provide evidence by which they legally dispose of their waste. This must be a waste transfer note/waste contract from a waste company or a receipt from a waste and recycling site.If you require any further details on this service, would like to arrange a collection or would like to register with the council, please contact customer services.It is an offence to dispose of commercial waste on the public footpath or in a public litter bin. Offenders are liable for a £80 penalty notice and a fine of up to £2500 is the matter is taken to court.For more information please see our frequently asked questions.Pages in Commercial waste collectionYou are here: Commercial waste collectionCommercial waste charges"The following site looks useful.  Netregs used to be the site to go to for businesses but it now only seems to be covering Scotland and Northern Ireland.http://www.reducetheuse.co.uk/It helps with waste minimisation.LBE was about the first LA to offer a free cooking oil collection to businesses.  I don't think that they do that any more.  I'm pretty sure that I saw the address for the local oil collection company on the website fairly recently.What questions is your Waste Transfer Note asking about separating your waste?  You may need to have more than one.LBH&F offered a discount on the eurobins for recycling in order to encourage and help their businesses with separation of waste.  Usually there is a bag and a eurobin option.The cost of landfilling waste has increased again this year.

Philippa Bond ● 4325d