Forum Topic

South African courts in the headline

The South African court system has been on the news for the past few years with two prominent cases.The first - Oscar PistoriousThe Second - Shrien DewaniWhat do you think of the South African Justice system?Will these men get a fair trial.Is it all about money - can you pay yourself out of jail?I personlly have never been to South Africa, nor do I have any wish to ever go there. Dangerous country.

Rhys Smith ● 4334d29 Comments

Steady on...I think you're taking everything said out of context. If someone decides to do sport for a living or for their own pleasure good luck to them but it doesn't make them any worthier than many others. You appear to be getting a bit hot under the collar but I enjoy watching some sports as much as the  next person. I don't however believe that sportsmen and women are some kind of saviours which you appear to.

Keith Iddon ● 4332d

I do wish that diving bloke would get off the telly.

Christine Daniels ● 4332d

OK then, why are sports people so revered?Why do we allow sport such a high priority?It wasn't so long ago roads were closed to allow a torch to be carried through the streets.  In Ealing, parties were held in parks to celebrate this occasion.In a few weeks time everyone will go Tennis crazy and asking if Andy Misery will win it.Should we bulldoze centre court and tell Tim and Bjorn to get proper jobs?

Christine Daniels ● 4332d

I'll assume you are playing the sport of 'pulling our legs' Christine.

Keith Iddon ● 4332d

Of course and their fathers.Its sport and they should be awarded and rewarded for what they do, chasing a ball around is tough that's why everyone does it.  Its very easy to criticise, but the pressure on them is immense, just look what happens to them when they lose.

Christine Daniels ● 4332d

Fair do's Christine. I think we are at crossed purposes.

Keith Iddon ● 4332d

Does that include pampering footballers, most of whom seem to be complete jerks?

Susan Kelly ● 4332d

It says on the home page of this very site "Nominate Your Local Sports Clubs and CoachesAnnual awards for those who contribute so much "

Christine Daniels ● 4332d

Not sure what you mean by 'pamper' and 'give so much'.Some are far too indulged and overpaid as it is. I think your average nurse, charity worker etc. might deserve 'pampering'.

Keith Iddon ● 4332d

And so important they are too.Maybe that's the problem here in the UK that we don't give enough to sports people, we should pamper them more as they give so much.

Christine Daniels ● 4332d

It's the same in New Zealand. Cricket and Rugby are the games played.

Keith Iddon ● 4332d

Its just that one of the guys in the OP is a runner.  It is an important job, so useful to society and he probably spent hours "training".  As for the medal count it is the taking part that counts.

Christine Daniels ● 4333d

No it's my opinion. Not sure what the medal count of RSA was at the last Olympics but it wasn't many I think.

Keith Iddon ● 4333d

Sure about that? 

Christine Daniels ● 4333d

I am not sure where that observation is going but yes some of them are, principally because so few other sports are played there.

Keith Iddon ● 4333d

They're great rugby players and cricketers Keith.

Gerry Tan ● 4333d

I lived in Johannesburg as a child  from April 1964- August 1968 and although I have some fond memories of my childhood time there it was known as a violent and harsh place, especially if you were black,obviously. It was a different situation there then under apartheid and the police were known for there strictness and uncompromising attitude toward blacks and to a lesser extent foreigners of any description. Unfortunately poverty and crystal meth are both rife and there is still a great deal more violence there than here.

Keith Iddon ● 4333d

So there haven't been any cases of innocent people being sent to prison?My friend used to teach in a prison and he said there is something wrong as everyone in there said they were innocent.

Christine Daniels ● 4333d

One's peers are more likely to give an impartial verdict than a judge appointed by the executive arm of government. To know whether something has been established beyond all reasonable doubt does not require great expertise.

Graham Weeks ● 4333d

There are a few parts of Ealing I'd not walk alone at night ad more than a few in London.

Gerry Tan ● 4333d

According to what I read, they didn't have mixed jurys.London can be dangerous too, a 15 year old was shot in the neck over the weekend.  We in Ealing had riots a few years ago.  Someone might think it is not safe to walk in London?

Christine Daniels ● 4333d

I agree with Christine: it's only really the Anglo-Saxon world that has this fetish about jury trials, where verdicts can seem almost random. They are not used in many modern democracies such as Germany. In South Africa, the judge sits with a couple of advisers and will, I suspect, take a long time to mull over her verdict (which is, admittedly, hard on the defendant). I suspect that their system was based on the idea that white jurors would be prejudiced against black defendants and vice versa and I'm betting that that would still be the case.

Susan Kelly ● 4333d

It has worked for them since 1969?  What makes trial by jury better than a trial by legal experts?Lets face it, when you get you want some building work done, you go to an experienced builder not someone off the street, don't you?

Christine Daniels ● 4333d

I would not have confidence in any country's justice where there is no trial by jury.

Graham Weeks ● 4333d

How do you know it is dangerous if you have never been there?

Christine Daniels ● 4333d

Rhys, the topics on EalingToday needn't nesessarily be about Ealing soley - and thanks for asking varied and interesting questions.

Gerry Tan ● 4334d

For me it's less about their court system and more about the ability of their police to successfully put together a case that 'sticks'. There already appears to be massive errors by the police in the OP case - most importantly the inability to protect DNA evidence by contaminating the crime scene.Already the OP case seems to have breezed over the fact the he DID kill his girlfriend. That seems to have been lost in the scramble to prove that it was intentional. I have the feeling he will be found innocent of the murder charge and end up with a 'token' sentence for manslaughter.

John Bodman ● 4334d

Hi Rhys its people like you who keep this site going which is great I dont always agree with what you say though :)

Jack Ryan ● 4334d

sorry folks. I know this has nothing to do with Ealing, but it has been pretty dry on this forum. It seems there are only 7 or 8 people who use this forum which is a shame considering the Ealing Borough has thousands of people in it.

Rhys Smith ● 4334d