Forum Topic

Over the hill so we don't deserve a pill???

How wonderful - how caring....now the Department for Health proposals would mean that elderly patients would be denied life saving drugs just because they have reached a certain age?Previously we had to contend with a 'postcode lottery' which meant that treatment would be given (or not) depending on where one lived.Now we have the powers that be thinking of a new way to save money - let the elderly go to hell, let's concentrate on those who would benefit society! What do they want to do - do mercy killings? Are the elderly such a burden on society no use to anyone?How do they know if the younger person is actually doing anything to benefit society? Will they check that they are acctually working before givinng treatment on the NHS?What about the elderly who volunteer to help others? What about the role of grandparents? Pensioners worked and contributed to this very society and are rewarded with one of the lowest pensions in Europe.So let me get this straight, first they want to take away our Freedom Passes, the Winter Fuel Allowance, Free TV Licence for the over 75's. Transport by taxi cars for the disabled is also under consideration and this service may be scrapped in April next year.  Then of course those pensioners who do have savings, well they have lost out on miserable interest rates and have done so for years.Pensioners who fall ill and need long term care in a Nursing Home would have to sell their property to pay for it, but the reckless and the feckless would get all this care for FREE. And they say that pensioners are getting away lightly whilst everyone else is having to tighten their belts? Now there is evidence that closing the A&E wards means taking risks with patient's lives because they have to travel further to get treatment - what on earth is happeninng to our NHS which was something the nation could be proud of.The NHS has wasted money for YEARS, so before they go down the proposed route of denying treatment to the elderly perhaps they should first consider the following:Stop surgery which is simply for cosmetic reasons - boob jobs and the like. If the patient wants this then ask them to pay towards it.Let the drunks pay something towards their treatment, same goes for the drug addicts - anything that is self inflicted, unless they are willing to help themselves.Health tourists - they should pay for treatment - it's not the International Health Service!Cut back on Hospital Managers and consider bringing back Matron.Let those who are not entitled to free treatment pay for it!Charge a small fee for missed appointments, if it the patient at fault.And do the unthinkable - check how much is being misappropriated from the hospital!Think of the many ways savings could be made but STOP PICKING ON PENSIONERS!!!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4424d20 Comments

I still say that this has been misreported (in the Mail -- how staggering!); it's not about refusing medication to people just because they're older but about end-of-life care and not making people live on when they are very ready to go.

Susan Kelly ● 4416d

I was about to recommend  a certain nursing home and then looked up the latest Care Commissioner's report and found that all the interpersonal stuff was good but some details such as fire exits being blocked and radiators weren't  protected properly so decided that it would be better if you were to consult carehome.co.uk in the first instance and put in the postcode where you would like to be and that will bring up various homes.  You will also be able to look at the latest inspection reports. Fire exits being blocked may not be anywhere as important as having good personal care but up to you to check out. Ideally a place should be good from all angles. Good luck

Pamela Kay ● 4417d

Philippa, you may love the song, but its not a pleasant way to spend Easter.

Gerry Tan ● 4417d

TonyPossibly without reference to your previous post, are there any care / nursing homes that you would recommend around Ealing?A friend's parent currently lives in the St. David's Nursing Home in West Ealing and likes it but I don't think they have many rooms available.

Phil Kay ● 4417d

Hey, it's me who keeps telling everyone that Life is a Terminal Illness and you just have to try and always make the best of things!I love this song:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo&feature=kp

Philippa Bond ● 4419d

Yes, it needs to cover more than just terminal illness. In a sense, we all have a terminal illness!

Susan Kelly ● 4421d

Susan,I'm not thinking it's "easy" but I would embrace the idea of having a choice ---- at the moment most discussions about the end of life centres on people who have terminal illness. This is  a topic which some people seem to think is outrageous and  euthanasia will be used by mercenary relatives.  However if it is going to be possible to end one's life in the UK it will be necessary to obtain two doctor's signatures stating that the illness is terminal.  My problem will be that when I am frail and unable to cope with day-to-day living and decide to say goodbye, it won't be easy in the sense that I can't do it but more because my considered wishes don't meet with approval from two doctors.

Pamela Kay ● 4421d

The sensible Dutch and Swiss citizens seem to have cracked this Susan.

Gerry Tan ● 4421d

It would be nice to think so, Pam. Oddly enough, I was talking about this with an old college friend just yesterday. We both have a history of Alzheimer's in the family and have watched previous generations turn into vegetables. She seems to think it's easy to end it all; I'm not so sure.

Susan Kelly ● 4421d

I don't want one of those prolonging pills -  I just hope  to take some opiates and say "goodbye"  as and when I feel like it. That shouldn't be too difficult to arrange, should it?

Pamela Kay ● 4422d

I'm not sure about the 'smell of urine' test, Tony. It's perfectly possible to arrive at a Home a minute after one of the residents has had an accident and while the staff are still scurrying to deal with it. You really need repeated visits before dismissing one Home or selecting another.Most medical staff want to keep people alive; that's what they went into nursing or doctoring for. It's just a shame that quality of life isn't taken into account more.

Susan Kelly ● 4422d

People in general want to get well enough to leave hospital but in fact the lack of care there to help them get well and out can make them depressed.There are many who do not want to be a burden on their families and stay fiercely independent which is admirable but it might be easier for their families if they would accept some help earlier on.  It is important to keep in touch and you won't know what is really happening in each other's lives unless you spend an amount of time together.Every time I hear "We are living longer" followed by "and that's a good thing" it makes me want to spit considering the cuts in services.  We don't have a legal alternative in this country to living and cuts in services have been aimed at the more vulnerable.  There is no proper discussion about care and end of life care with many patients and their families.  I agree with Susan that there must be a point when prolonging life just because it is possible is cruel.You can see why people fight to stay independent in their own homes - so much so that they find it more and more difficult and aren't living well there either.Whether in a care home, nursing home or in their own home they need visitors.

Philippa Bond ● 4422d

Food for thought Tony...sans teeth, sans taste, sans thoughts, sans everything.

Gerry Tan ● 4422d

Yep - dreadful places.A close family member was kept alive in one of these places for six years.  She desperately wanted to be allowed to go.It's close to torture.It wasn't the home's fault.  They did the best they could in very difficult circumstances.In my career as a supplier of management software to the care home sector I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly.There are many many establishments struggling to do their best and provide care on inadequate budgets.There are even a few where the prospect of spending one's own declining years within them would not fill you with horror.  (Unfortunately, none of us on this board can afford those ones though.)One Operations Director of my acquaintance (in charge of one of the top chains of care home providers) once stated to me that it would be over her dead body that she was ever committed to one of these establishments and that she would sooner keep a revolver under her pillow for the purposes of ensuring her own despatch come the day.  And she, and the organisation that she worked for, are the good guys that run the decent homes!Handy hint for how to assess a care home - if you ever find yourself in the unfortunate position of having to choose one for somebody else: if you catch the merest hint of urine turn around and walk out - that home is not for you or your loved one.  (Which is not to say that all homes that don't smell of wee are 100% okay mind you, just that the chances are that they are better...)

Tony Colliver ● 4422d

Maybe I misread the article about this in The Times, as I just sort of skimmed it, but I understood it to say that it was people in nursing homes who would not automatically be given new drugs just for the sake of keeping them alive. Anyone who regularly visits a nursing home, as I do, will know what a pitiful state many of the residents are in and how cruel it is to try to prolong their lives just because we can.

Susan Kelly ● 4422d

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01sgf4pI so agreed with this the other morning.  Keep in touch with family and friends - so ignore all those calls to reduce paper and not write cards (you can send an e-card but that is not quite the same).  Start a new address book but don't throw away the old one as it is useful for remembering where people used to live and where you visited them and is good to have if you lose the current one.If you are on the internet see if you can find some of those old friends of yours that you lost touch with - or ones of your parents that they would like to get in touch with.  Then they can reminisce about what they did at school - memories that you can't help with!

Philippa Bond ● 4423d

It is hard to recognise that value when it can't necessarily be seen.  When people meet together and start talking it is surprising what experience and wisdom you can find. It has always worried me that when you are admitted to hospital you are seen there at your most vulnerable and that you are then judged with little or no understanding of your resiliance and strengths.  Your age and your birthdate then seem to have much more importance then than at any other time!Families are often spread across the world rather than just in one county or country nowadays and it is harder to stay in touch.  There is technology that can help but it can be difficult to find out and work out which to choose.  Illness and mobility can also make this more difficult.Things that become difficult may well be easy for a younger generation to help with and it is really worth asking for help.  The answer may not always be what you thought it would be and you do need to be prepared to be a little flexible about this!I noticed today that there is this new website:  http://www.which.co.uk/elderly-careand Age UK is full of information and runs campaigns to improve life for seniorshttp://www.ageuk.org.uk

Philippa Bond ● 4424d

The most constructive thing Philippa would be to recognise the value to society of senior and elderly retired citizens, who could help to create a better society by using their experience and wisdom and not make mistakes about life in general and present events in particular.

Gerry Tan ● 4424d

I was under the impression that this happened already.It will be alright if you've got enough money and/or connections won't it? We don't officially have euthanasia available to us if/when we want it and yet there is talk of restrictions on drugs like this. Restricting care which then keeps patients in hospital using a bed for longer is not constructive.  Restricting care which then makes it harder to communicative with deaf patients is not constructive.  Demoralising staff is not constructive.  Look out for voting reform!

Philippa Bond ● 4424d

"...now the Department for Health proposals would mean that elderly patients would be denied life saving drugs just because they have reached a certain age?"Gosh, this is frightening, they'll want to cull all octogenarians next!

Gerry Tan ● 4424d