Forum Topic

Ealings Christmas Tree

I was shopping in  Ealing Broadway today and when leaving I noticed the Christmas Tree outside the Town hall  well not exactly a Christmas tree but something made out of recycled rubbish. Is this just temporary until they erect a more traditional one?

Tony Maxey ● 4526d68 Comments

Unfortunately because of the political ping-pong that goes on between the parties neither will dare make themselves unpopular with their devotees and actually do something about the people who don't do anything about separating their waste.LBH&F had some sort of consultation before making some recycling compulsory in some areas.I believe that some people were amazed how easy it was once they had the suitable equipment for it delivered to them together with the threat of a hefty fine.  Quite a few boroughs in London do have compulsory recycling.  Not Ealing.  We all know who doesn't.  We walk through their rubbish when they put their black sacks out too early when they swan off on their holidays leaving it out far too early.  We also hear the clinks of the bottles as the bin men move the black sacks.http://www.ealing.gov.uk/report

Philippa Bond ● 4520d

The answer of course is that they don't actually want you to take your rubbish to the Greenford tip.(Your appearance may cause them to stop leaning on their shovels and actually have to do something.)

Tony Colliver ● 4520d

There would be more public money available if this council didn’t waste it On things like this.

Tony Maxey ● 4520d

What was Maggie's famous quote on this again?Ah yes, I have it here (to paraphrase only very slightly):    "The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

Tony Colliver ● 4520d

I'm pleased to hear that Nigel!There would be more public money available if more people made more of an effort to make the most of the recycling services that the Council provides.Public money can't always be spent where you want it to be.  The cynical way in which services for the most vulnerable were cut before anything could be done about it will be remembered I'm sure at the next election.  As will the selling off of public buildings to make sure that decisions could not be easily reversed.

Philippa Bond ● 4520d

IT'S NOT ABOUT RECYCLING - HOW MANY MORE TIMES?It's about the profligate waste of public money."Shame it isn't green all the time but I wouldn't want to encourage anyone to drink sweet fizzy drinks to get the bottles.  I think it is great that primary school children have been involved and I hope that they have all been to see the creation."1. They were water bottles2. They can't miss it,  the school is 100 yards away.

Nigel Brooks ● 4520d

Unfortunately there are a number of people who still insist on NOT RECYCLING. "Too difficult" and "Don't know how to" are no longer good enough excuses.  There is plenty of info out there.  Landfill Tax has been set by Government to go up year after year to try and persuade Councils to encourage their residents to recycle.  Governments don't seem to do a lot themselves for this other than hand out pots of money as grants to be applied for and won. If you read the article on the home page of this website you will see that the money appears to have come from several different places.  I wouldn't be surprised if Boris hadn't supported it too.Shame it isn't green all the time but I wouldn't want to encourage anyone to drink sweet fizzy drinks to get the bottles.  I think it is great that primary school children have been involved and I hope that they have all been to see the creation.Lots of artwork is/has been controversial! 

Philippa Bond ● 4520d

I was on the verge of emailing the (ahem!) artist, Ashley Philips after finding his website, but I stopped myself. What am I going to tell him ? That his work is crap (well I think it is, but one man’s art...). That he's exploited us ? No! It's not his fault - he didn't ask Ealing Council to waste our money. He was given a brief, gave Mahfouz and his merry men a proposal and got the job - fair play to him. If my job goes tits up, I'm going to buy a kimono and masquerade as an artist and head straight for Cllr Mahfouz's office.Joking side, I wholeheartedly agree with 99% of the comments on this string. The money could and should have been spent on persons less fortunate. I'd have had a warmer feeling having read a headline, "Ealing Council hands Cllr Mahfouz P45 after rubbish tree pitch and pledges money to homeless in Ealing", or something of that theme.I will be voting in May to make sure this clown never has the opportunity to waste our money again and have emailed him to assure him of the anger alone on this forum. I doubt he has the nerve to have a read of this.Back to re-cycling, whilst important, I find it quite boring but one poster asked what else could be done to promote it ? Well, I hear those vans the Government commissioned with the "illegals out" message are going quite cheap.....

Bud Richards ● 4520d

No it isn't Gerry.Pubic funds from a supposed impoverished, whining about 'Tory cuts' council are not spent on the works of Hirst or Emin whatever you may think of their artistic talents.It is not a matter of taste it is a matter of the profligate spending of public funds. it happens every time the lunatics take over the asylum or, worse still, are put anywhere near the control of budgets.

Nigel Brooks ● 4520d

£13k seems small potatoes when one considers that some living British artists command umpteen thousands of pounds for a pile of bricks and people like Damien Hirst and Tracey Emin's installations are valued similarly. It all a matter of taste and/or culture or fashion I suppose.Actually, Gerry, it's a matter of politics.  I like modern art but that tree is appalling and a smack in the face to anyone who has had their services cut this year (people with mental health issues, learning difficulties, people needing carers and transport and day centres).  I know 13 grand wouldn't cover all of those cuts but it would cover some of it.  It's an extraordinarily expensive way of getting over the message to recycle and I am not sure an effective one.

Allison Franklin ● 4520d

Personaly I think this rubbish heap they call a christmas tree a total waste of public money, I can not see how this will make people decide to recyle more, My son and myself already recycle everything we can, it not encouraging like this morning when the contractors leave half the recyling we put out beind

Sandra Robinson ● 4520d

I suspect that the Labour group will be sending the picture of the tree as the ufficial picture for their Christmas cards. So Boris may well get one.

Rosa Popham ● 4520d

£13k seems small potatoes when one considers that some living British artists command umpteen thousands of pounds for a pile of bricks and people like Damien Hirst and Tracey Emin's installations are valued similarly. It all a matter of taste and/or culture or fashion I suppose.

Gerry Tan ● 4520d

PS: has anyone thought of sending Boris Johnson an image of Ealing's unique masterpiece?

Gillian Spragg ● 4520d

The local council recently spent a great deal of time running an Arts Scrutiny Panel to tell us that LBE has no cash to support the arts. Apparently there IS money in the pot if they choose to spend it but what a travesty has been created with this so-called tree!In seasonal culinary terms it is an arboreal version of Jamie Oliver's detested turkey twizzler. Ealing deserves better than that.In terms of persuading people to recycle, we need a far more attractive and positive image to rouse their enthusiasm.So who is going to be campaigning at the next elections for real quality of life and genuine value for money?Please stand up and show yourselves.And I, like a previous writer, would also like to see a breakdown of the near £13000 spending.

Gillian Spragg ● 4520d

I think the message of the tree is that some councillors should not be recycled at the next local election. They should be DUMPTED.

Graham Weeks ● 4520d

I try and recycle as much as possible but this is tree is as ugly as all get out and it's a travesty to have spent £13000 on it.  How on earth can it have cost that much?  The bottles were saved by schoolchildren to the artist didn't have to find the majority of the materials used.I'd rather the Council had said that due to budget cuts, they were going to forego a Christmas tree this year outside the town hall.  As someone else has pointed out, there is a very nice tree in the shopping centre so there is something to go and ooh and aah at.

Allison Franklin ● 4520d

However it is 'spun' it's almost THIRTEEN THOUSAND POUNDS for a ruddy 'Christmas' tree.I am still beyond angry.

Nigel Brooks ● 4520d

There must be better way for the council to spend 13k on recycling without putting rubbish themselves on the street in the guise of a festive ornament. I am sure with a little thought they could have come up with a better more practical idea like building a couple of  benches out of recycled waste alongside a well presented tree for people to rest on. This would have been more useful and more beneficial to be used all year round. No matter which way you look at this item it’s still a waste of the tax payer’s money. Of course Artist Ashley Phillips thinks it’s a good idea he just walked away with 13k not a bad little earner.

Tony Maxey ● 4520d

The LBE Press Release - taken from www.ealing.gov.uk - available 24/7 unless it goes wrong or is closed for maintenance"Plastic fantastic Christmas in EalingPublished 2 December 2013A giant Christmas tree made with 900 recycled plastic bottles was unveiled today (Monday, 2 December) in Ealing – the first of its kind in London.Recycled Christmas treeBuilt by artist Ashley Phillips and commissioned by Ealing Council, the tree stands six metres tall and is on display outside Ealing Town Hall.Part of the council’s 50% by 2020 recycling campaign, the Christmas tree has been created to make people think and encourage them to recycle.  More waste is produced over the festive period than at any other time of year. Councillor Bassam Mahfouz, cabinet member for environment and transport said: “This striking tree not only helps us celebrate Christmas it comes with a green message.  Astonishingly the same number of bottles used on the trees is used in the UK every two seconds. We are encouraging residents to take two seconds to recycle.“The tree is designed to make people think about how much we all consume and how items could be reused. All plastic can be recycled, and is actually a valuable resource used to make all sorts of new products such as fleece jumpers, park benches and children’s playground equipment.“Christmas is a crucial time for refuse and recycling in the borough. Over the festive period the amount we send to landfill rises by 20%, costing us more than £1 million.’’Most homes in the borough can recycle plastic and the council is extending this service to people in flats.Artist Ashley Phillips added: “It’s been fantastic to work on this project and have such an important message involved. I hope that residents will enjoy this art installation and take the time to think about how much they recycle.”The public are invited to join festivities around the tree on Monday, 9 December. There will be stalls selling Christmas goods from 1-6pm, carols from the London College of Music Chorus from 4.30pm and other festive fun.The tree has been constructed by plastic bottles recycled by Christ the Saviour primary school, and will be in place outside Ealing Town Hall from 2 December until  5 January."

Philippa Bond ● 4520d

Is it possible to have a breakdown on the price of this? Did they pay one company to 'design' make and install it? I wonder what/who the company is? (they must be laughing all the way to the bank)

Marie Shelny ● 4521d

Thank you Phil...

Tony Maxey ● 4521d

Tony,There you go:

Phil Taylor ● 4521d

Thanks for trying. During the day the tree reminds me of the coke factory conveyer belt.

Tony Maxey ● 4521d

Damn, sorry Tony I thought I had remembered how I managed to post an image on here.

Nigel Brooks ● 4521d

[IMG]http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv148/blindtony/Xmastree.jpg[/IMG]

Nigel Brooks ● 4521d

Oh well that didn't work! Back to the drawing board.

Tony Maxey ● 4521d

[URL=http://s678.photobucket.com/user/blindtony/media/Xmastree.jpg.html][IMG]http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv148/blindtony/Xmastree.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Tony Maxey ● 4521d

I have a photo of the tree during the day so people can get a better idea of what it looks like. The only problem is I don’t know how to upload it onto the website. I could PM it to someone with the know how.

Tony Maxey ● 4521d

Ealing's recycled plastic bottle Christmas tree has been causing a minor stir this week.  No doubt Labour’s councillor Bassam Mahfouz, who holds the Transport and Environment portfolio, thought that it would be bracing and improving for residents to be hectored about re-cycling at Christmas.  It is quite right for the council to promote re-cycling for many different reasons.  It saves the council money and allows it to keep council tax low.  It often provides high quality waste streams that can be used to displace new raw materials and save energy.  All good stuff.  But Mahfouz’s Christmas tree is pretty insulting if you are a tax payer.  It looks pretty enough at night to be sure but during the day it looks drab and the railings around it are reminiscent of road works.  The insult is the mighty £12,961 cost of this project.  I don’t know how you get to a place in your head where you think this is a reasonable way to spend taxpayers’ money.  The latest figures I could find (2011) for earnings of residents of the Ealing Central and Acton constituency where this tree has been placed state that the average (median) annual gross pay of residents is £31,198.  With a personal allowance of £9,440 this tax year and all the rest of this income being taxed at 20% the average person is paying £4,352 of tax in the constituency.  By my reckoning it took three Ealing taxpayers a year to pay enough tax to pay for this nonsense.  Never again please.  Labour's favourite insult at the full council meeting last night is that the Conservatives are out of touch.  Perhaps Mahfouz should look in the mirror.

Phil Taylor ● 4521d

Normally one would expect to see a traditional Christmas Tree outside the Town Hall or  maybe this is no  longer politically correct.The decorations in the shopping mall are very  nice, however that does not excuse the recycled rubbish outside Ealing Town Hall posing as a Christmas Tree. As a Streetwatcher I see enough rubbish throughout the year with empty beer cans and bottles littering the street!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4521d

Theres a huge tree in the shopping centre!

Tom Clifford ● 4521d

OK now we get the message but where is the traditional Christmas Tree.What a complete waste of money erecting that hideous pile of old bottles, someone was having a laugh charging the Council for that!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4521d

Or in the case of Christmas tree 'artists' "stuff your pockets full of cash"!

Nigel Brooks ● 4521d

I ought to rearrange that rather sad comment on consumerist Christmas:  For a great many people it is simply a holiday to "Stuff yer face".

Philippa Bond ● 4521d

Christmas is a very good time to have an in-your-face reminder of the amount of waste we make!  For a great many people it is simply a "Stuff yer face" holiday!Here is a great article from 2007.  How much has life changed?  How many extra bags of waste do you put out?  How much food do you waste?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-504644/How-waste-does-family-generate-Christmas-One-horrified-mother-lifts-lid.html

Philippa Bond ● 4521d

Whoever is responsible for this pile of rubbish should be sacked, what on earth has a pile of empty plastic bottles to do with Christmas?Imagine taking a child along to see a pretty Christmas Tree, they would certainly need an awful lot of imagination to find something appealing in this load of junk!OK I know we should all get the recycle message, but don't need it rammed down our throats at Christmas!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4522d

You're wrong - plastic bottles are now a resourceIt's still rubbish.

Tony Maxey ● 4522d

You're wrong - plastic bottles are now a resource.http://www.coca-cola.co.uk/environment/recyclometer-iframe.html

Philippa Bond ● 4522d

The electorate will get their chance to rid Ealing of Cllr Mahfouz and the rest of his 'ilk' come next May - I can't wait.

Nigel Brooks ● 4522d

Rubbish, it the correct term for it, sorry but whoever thought this was a good idea should be sacked !! it looks terrible and in the daytime looks what it is just rubbish.

Declan Devine ● 4522d

Article recently added to the front page news section of "Ealing Today" quotes the figure.

Philip Coe ● 4522d

Does anyone know where it says it cost £13k...?

Tom Clifford ● 4522d

For £12,961 they could surely have filled the bottles with wine then when it is dismantled (hurrah) everyone can have a glass to celebrate!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4523d

Real trees are easy to recycle, this one's made of metal??

Tony Luckhurst ● 4523d

Has anyone actually been and seen this monstrosity during the day? Not only is it a waste of money which could have been spent elsewhere as Nigel pointed out. But it’s also the ugliest thing I’ve seen. Forgive me if I am wrong but is not Christmas mainly for children? Do their eyes not light up to a well presented Christmas tree? As adults we appreciate what joy we bring to the young ones. I bet the Mahfouz family have a nice looking tree for their children so why should we have a load of rubbish on the footpath outside the Town hall sold to Mahfouz by a fast talking artist. It’s disappointing to say the least.We all recycle in our own way. If the council were really promoting recycling why do they not lower their prices at recycling dumps for builders? Last time I went to Greenford they wanted to charge me £190.00 per ton, McGovern’s charge about £75 per ton for general waste so there is no contest.We have large bins for recycling which I use I don’t need recycling rammed down my throat every which way I turn.

Tony Maxey ● 4523d

Actually it is a good message but it is NOT repeat NOT a message worth spending almost £13,000 on when budgets for our most vulnerable are being cut.You would have to be the hardest hearted environmentalist not to see the perversity of such expenditure.

Nigel Brooks ● 4523d

Recycling is fine but making a Christmas Tree out of empty plastic bottles is not! It must be the ugliest Christmas Tree ever!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4523d

Well said Philippa, we should recycle as much as we are able.

Gerry Tan ● 4523d

"Take 2 seconds to recycle Head down to Ealing Town Hall to visit our special Christmas tree throughout December. It’s made from 900 plastic bottles, the same amount that is used in the UK every 2 seconds!Not only can all of that plastic be recycled, it’s actually a valuable resource, turned into fleece jumpers, park benches, playground equipment, sleeping bags, and even loft installation.This Christmas please take 2 seconds to recycle."

Philippa Bond ● 4523d

Mandy - where did you get the figure from?

Tom Clifford ● 4523d

Oh joy, Mahfouz 'strikes again'. Still, it's not HIS money that he is spending is it?Roll on May 2014.

Nigel Brooks ● 4523d

Mandy,My colleague Colm Costello asked officers the question.  Last year's conventional tree cost £1,500.  They say the tree is re-usable and can be stored for free at the Greenford depot but that is not very credible.  Firstly the tree is essentially an advertising gimmick paid for out of funds to encourage re-cycling.  Therefore I can't see it making sense to keep repeating the stunt every year.  Secondly, dismantling, storing and rebuilding it will take some effort and I don't expect that the tree would survive that many years.  All in all a misjudgement I would say.  The political lead on this is Labour's Cllr Bassam Mahfouz who is responsible for Transport and Environment.  It is a politician's job to spot silly ideas and kill them off.  He had this idea pitched to him and he said yes.

Phil Taylor ● 4523d

An absolute waste of money!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4524d

I am beyond angry.I know of two children with profound multiple learning difficulties whose transport is being withdrawn 'for budget reasons' ostensibly because they can walk (not safely and at risk to themselves and others) and WE are spending almost £13,000 on a bloody plastic tree!!!

Nigel Brooks ● 4524d

Gerry you could give a 3 year old 900 bottles and ask him to make a tree and would probably make a better job. I am not very much into modern art work although this doesn’t stop my wife from dragging me around the museums but even she said this was awful. A friend from Aus commented “Your kidding” and another said “Tell them to buy a proper one”.  This is like having Christmas dinner without the Turkey. And at £13k I would expect a decent turkey.

Tony Maxey ● 4524d

"But Nigel and Mandy, how do we put a value on creativity and creative angst?"Easily Gerry when both care budgets and the transport budget for disabled children are being cut to the bone, easily.£12,961 is sheer madness and someone needs to be held to account.

Nigel Brooks ● 4524d

2,500 carer visits at £5 per 20 minute visit. That is 500 visits, or three visits per week for three mildly disabled people for one year which have been cut from the support budget this year for other things.

Mandy Smith ● 4524d

Two local councillors, Phil Taylor and Colm Costello tweated this information. I think Mr Costello got the information.I think we deserve to know three things. One, which council employee orchestrated and implemented this idea, who approved it as a council executive at board level, and who oversaw it as a member of the ruling Labour group cabinet.See Councillor Phil Taylor's website tweets are on the right-hand side. A real tree would probably have cost £200?

Mandy Smith ● 4524d

But Nigel and Mandy, how do we put a value on creativity and creative angst?

Gerry Tan ● 4524d

Where did you get the figure from Mandy?If, and I have no reason to doubt you, that is accurate, the 'fool' who spent that much should be; named, shamed and sacked!

Nigel Brooks ● 4524d

UNBELIEVABLEIt cost £12,961. The Christmas Tree I mean.Plus the bottles would not have gone to landfill. They are recyclable!

Mandy Smith ● 4524d

May well see you there Peter. If you see a guy there taking photos with a miffed look on his face please say hello. I’m going to post it on my Facebook page to see what sort of feedback it will get from other parts of the world.

Tony Maxey ● 4526d

I will be down there tomorrow afternoon I will let you know of my findings the picture I seen of it was at night time will let you know tomorrow Tony.

Peter Jones ● 4526d

Peter I would advise you to have a look during the day it looks like a garbage truck went by with too many empty bottles on board and then some bright spark thought I know lets build a tree and puts some lights on it no one will notice.

Tony Maxey ● 4526d

i have not seen the tree in person but it dont look to bad from the picture

Peter Jones ● 4526d

Well it proves my point Bassam Mahfouz wouldn’t know his a from his elbow. It looks to me like something you would do on April fools day. I may be old fashioned but its not really in the Christmas spirit. Next year do we expect a giant Kellogs Cornflakes box tree?

Tony Maxey ● 4526d

I think the tree is there to stay. it has been made with over 900 recycled bottles there is an article about it on the homepage

Peter Jones ● 4526d