Forum Topic

Cash cows?

The energy companies are treating us as cash cows, so Ed Davey says. My latest gas and electricity bills are the highest ever and I'm not happy.  Are we cash cows?

Gerry Tan ● 4465d22 Comments

If my wife and I were starting again on the housing ladder, we'd strive to build our own house and install all the equipment you suggest plus underfloor heating and heat pumps.We're cheesed off with our gas and electricity bills. Either that or we'd go live on an island in the Pacific (Under the wide and starry skies, Dig me a grave and let me lie. Glad did I live and gladly die and I lay me down...etc etc.)

Gerry Tan ● 4463d

"nteresting Chris, but flawed data I believe.The standard tariff, based on the median price of 'the big six' for gas, supplied to a W7 postcode, is €0.061596. Way above that quoted on the site you quote."Not flawed data - it excludes the things like transmission costs / VAT / environmental levies that governments layer on top. If you strip these out, bills in the UK would fall by around 50% overnightThe question should therefore be whether it's energy costs that are amongst the lowest in Europe and controlled by the likes of EON, or politicians like Ed Milliband and Chris Huhne who both introduced significant extra levies and escalators (so green costs will rise to £300 a year for the average bill by 2020) that are more to blame for the high prices.The companies make very easy scape goats but the public would be wise to look at the political meddling that has driven up costs year on year and hold the relevant politicians to account.

Chris Martin ● 4463d

And on that front - I think we could be on the cusp of another major change - only this time in energy.All it would take is for there to be widespread take-up of solar (both photovoltaic and direct water heating) and the shift could be every bit as seismic as the telecoms revolution of the last thirty years.People would own their own means of generating electricity  and heat - at which point it's two fingers to the big energy companies - gas & electricity.I sometimes think that living here in London as we do we are behind the curve.  One does not see very much in the way of rooftop solar installations around here, but it can be surprising to observe the level of penetration in other areas of the country - especially rural and semi-rural ones.Ditto for privately owned and operated wind turbines as well - which are sprouting up all over the place.Somebody quoted a figure of 12% or 13% recently as the amount of energy the UK currently gets from renewables.  I was surprised that this figure was so high but also delighted.

Tony Colliver ● 4463d

It was *very* easy to foresee the changes at the time.Those of us that worked in tech industries were at the end of our tethers with BT.

Tony Colliver ● 4463d

Do you work for one of the big 6 Chris :)  ??

Penny Crocker ● 4463d

Interesting Chris, but flawed data I believe.The standard tariff, based on the median price of 'the big six' for gas, supplied to a W7 postcode, is €0.061596. Way above that quoted on the site you quote.This makes the UK gas price actually higher than three of the comparative countries that you quote.Also the site seems to 'over-estimate' the unit charge for electricity by almost €001.5 per unit for the UK as I found it difficult to get as high as the unit price shown.

Nigel Brooks ● 4464d

"Spot on Nigel! And had the industry remained in national ownership, we wouldn't be here. Short term greed."Penny, if the Industry had remained in public ownership retail energy prices would be higher (given that they were amongst the highest in Europe prior to nationalisation and are amongst the lowest now). We’d also be looking at the need for £160B of capital investment which would add 7p  onto the rate of basic income tax - you seem keen on the idea but how keen will you be when you have to pay a lot more in income tax for the prize of renationalising an industry?

Chris Martin ● 4464d

Gerry, the simple fact is that the retail prices for Gas and Electricity in the UK are amongst the lowest in Europe. It's the additional levies that are driving and will continue to drive future increases - ironically these were imposed by Labour's Ed Milliband when he was energy secretary and subsequently by the Lib Dems' Chris Huhne. Both parities seem to be doing a pretty good job of hoodwinking the public and obfuscating the significant role they played in driving up bills.For the most recent data, the EU Energy Portal shows that we're paying significantly less per kWh for electricity and gas than Germany, France, Italy or Spain:The figures are here - if the energy companies are treating UK consumers like "cash cows" they aren't doing a very good job of it...http://www.energy.eu/#

Chris Martin ● 4464d

Gerry, only blaming the Chinese because there are so many of them. Nearly as many Indians, come to that.My point is that we in the west have lifestyles that would have seemed unimaginable luxury to our grandparents and the Chinese/Indians/Africans all want that too because they see it all the time on TV and films and the Net. So their demand for energy soars every year and there is only so much to go round.The world just can't sustain that sort of drain on resources, so we are going to have adjust to less lavish conditions since we can't say to the developing world, 'Yes, we have all this, but you may not'.

Susan Kelly ● 4464d

Don't think we could have reasonably foreseen the changes in the telecomms market at that point so Bt isn't such a good example...but transport, health, education, power, defence and utilities are better and safer nationalised. It would be quite good to have to wait a year for a mobile phone ! Wouldn't do young people any harm  !

Penny Crocker ● 4464d

I admit to buying BT shares (I worked for them at the time) as the 'Post Office Telephones' monopoly was a disaster and, as the market was being liberalised would have faded into obscurity with the loss of over 200,000 jobs.Love them or hate them BT has transformed. Back in 1982 (when floated) it was common to wait twelve MONTHS to have a phone line provisioned. There was little investment and they needed a shedload of cash to compete.

Nigel Brooks ● 4464d

Sad and foolish. But it still goes on - the Royal Mail being an example. I refused to buy shares in BT (the 1st one) and I haven't deviated form that.

Penny Crocker ● 4464d

Easily sold Penny to the stupidity of job-preserving politicians on a 'deficit reduction/ job preservation' programme and equally to the greed of institutional investors who know a good thing (e.g. a cash cow) when they see it.

Nigel Brooks ● 4464d

I was never quite sure how they sold that one to anyone. If privatised, cost cutting measures will always be implemented because the 1st duty is to its share holders and staff rather than the greater good. 

Penny Crocker ● 4464d

The government at the time told us that privatisation would provide the investment we plainly needed then and need even more now.It plainly hasn't, so a change in approach is obviously required.

Sam Salisbury ● 4464d

Spot on Nigel! And had the industry remained in national ownership, we wouldn't be here. Short term greed.

Penny Crocker ● 4464d

If we are playing the blame game then blame successive UK governments and the power companies for their endemic short-termism which has left us with the real risk of power cuts for the first time in a generation, woeful underinvestment in energy infrastructure and no real commitment to alternative fuel sources. We live on a windy island surrounded by water and yet less than 12% of our energy requirements coming from renewable sources.

Nigel Brooks ● 4464d

Yes Penny, I think the essential basic utilities should be nationalised like water and electricity.

Gerry Tan ● 4464d

Why blame the poor old Chinese Susan? They seem to get the blame for most of the world's ills. Next you'll be blaming us for over-populating the planet - give us a break for goodness sake!  Btw, I think we should blame the Russians.

Gerry Tan ● 4464d

Would it have been better if we'd stayed nationalised? Should all essential services be owned by the state?

Penny Crocker ● 4465d

Not really. The energy companies aren't charities and the price of fuel keeps rising because of massive worldwide demand. I blame the Chinese.

Susan Kelly ● 4465d

Noooow!

Tony Wood ● 4465d