Forum Topic

PAVEMENTS ARE FOR PEDESTRIANS

PAVEMENTS ARE FOR PEDESTRIANSThe ‘cycling lobby’ (including the CTC) insists on sharing the public pavements, uninvited, on the grounds that cyclists are no threat to pedestrians, that most pedestrians don’t mind, and it is safer for cyclists than riding on the roadways. The government’s Bikeability scheme promotes safer cycling on the roadways, acknowledging (but only in whispers) that pavement cycling is illegal. There are moves afoot to create a default 20mph speed limit in all urban areas which would reduce the speed differential between motor vehicles and cyclists thereby making the roads safer for all road users and easier for pedestrians to cross the roads. See http://www.20splentyforus.org.uk/its_time_for_20.htmTfL is said to be developing a ‘Pedestrian Safety Action Plan’. The Living Streets organisation http://www.livingstreets.co.uk   is involved in those discussions – contact Tom.Platt@living streets.co.uk . Hopefully the Plan will tackle the issue of pavement cycling.What does the ‘pedestrian lobby’ think? Why not tell the responsible authorities listed in the following letter, and raise the issue at the next Cleveland Ward meeting on Thursday 24October.WHO SHOULD STOP PAVEMENT CYCLING?(Unsigned letter to Ealing Gazette 23 August 2013)Reply to the editor Ealing Gazette on 23 August – not publishedThe simple answer is the Metropolitan Police. Pavement cycling is a crime under the 1835 Highways Act, as indicated in Rule 64 of the Highway Code. Pavement cycling incidents should be reported (preferably with photographic evidence) to Sgt James Ayling of Ealing’s Community Police Team [mailto: James.Ayling@met.police.uk Tel: 020 8246 9406] with copies to Commander Adrian Hanstock head of the Met Police Safer Transport Command [mailto: Adrian.Hanstock@met.police.uk Tel: 020 3054 0293]. Unfortunately the Metropolitan Police appear to regard pavement cycling as a ‘petty crime’ which they are content to ignore as a matter of policy in favour of chasing ‘real criminals’. Ealing’s own police officers are badly (or ‘defensively’) briefed on the issue as your correspondent has discovered.At Ealing Council the promotion of cycling in the borough is the responsibility of Assistant Director of Strategic Transport Nick O’Donnell [mailto: ODonnellN@ealing.gov.uk Tel: 020 8825 8078]. There is an office dealing with cycling issues [mailto: cycling@ealing.gov.uk Tel: 020 8825 5771]. However, Ealing Council refuses to make its social contribution to controlling pavement cycling by putting up signs indicating that it is illegal, or even mentioning the illegality of pavement cycling in any of its cycling-promotion literature. Councillor Bassam Mahfouz is Ealing’s Cabinet Member for Transport and Environment [mailto: Mahfouz@ealing.gov.uk Tel: 07949 104 656]London Mayor Boris Johnson’s recently appointed London Cycling Commissioner Andrew Gilligan [mailto: andrew.gilligan@london.gov.uk] is responsible for implementing his ‘Vision for Cycling in London’ [http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Cycling%20Vision%20GLA%20template%20FINAL.pdf] which includes enforcing the law against pavement cycling [pages 23, 28 and 31]. Ealing and Hillingdon member of the London Assembly Dr Onkar Sahota [mailto: onkar.sahota@london.gov.uk Tel: 020 7983 6558] may be expected to pursue the issue in the London Assembly. Perhaps the best way to tackle the issue would be by clear signing and public pressure. It is only 6 years since the civil anti-smoking laws, enforced by Environmental Health Officers, came into force. No-smoking signs abound in public places and the law is generally observed because of public resistance to smoking. Simple self-explanatory signs against pavement cycling could have a similar effect in helping to enforce the 1835 Highways Act under which it is a criminal offence for anyone to ride (or even ‘scoot’) a bicycle on the public footpath. Public resistance to pavement cycling would do the rest.Perhaps significantly, there is no official ‘no-pavement-cycling’ sign in the Department of Transport’s library of road signs. However, a simple sign adapted from DfT’s Road Signs Manual Chapter 3 diagram 5.26 (page 37) would do the trick for Ealing:[https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223943/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf]This letter is copied to the Police Officers and Officials mentioned in the text plus local MPs Angie Bray and Steve Pound.Tony Purton Ealing W13 NOTE: In an e-mail exchange reacting to this letter, Ealing’s Assistant Director of Strategic Transport Nick O’Donnell made  the following statements:1. Ealing Council runs a nationally acclaimed cycle training course where lawful and proper cycling habits are taught 2. we work on a regular basis with our cycle trainers, the local cycling campaign and the local police to seek to discourage pavement cycling.3. We also work with the local police to try and pick up on known “hotspots” where this activity occurs 4. “we do not believe that the erection of what would have to be a mass of signs across the Borough on this matter is really (a) good spend of taxpayers money (b) in line with our policies on reducing street clutter and (c) likely to actively deter this activity to justify the spend.  5. “Our bikeability training was awarded a national award last year and is rated as one of the best in the country”6. “we are well aware of the issues of pavement cycling in the Pitshanger area”7. “I agree that adults cycling on pavements is not appropriate and illegal and as has been repeatedly explained to you something we are working on discouraging”. QUESTION: Have you seen any signs of Ealing Council or Ealing Police acting to ‘discourage’ pavement cycling?

Tony Purton ● 4544d37 Comments

Keep reading this and related messages - they are important

Tony Purton ● 4462d

"Cycle paths are very often dangerous, in many cases it would be better if they weren't there at all, (in lieu of a properly set up cycle path)."It is the INCONSIDERATE cyclists that we complain about.Pedestrians are more vulnerable than cyclists are when they are riding the way some of them do through the pedestrians at crossings (at red lights) and on the pavement.Please don't just quote statistics at us.  They can be manipulated and are.  Everybody has their own agenda.Boris on twitter the other day wouldn't call for everyone to wear cycling helmets because somewhere where they now have to the number of cyclists reduced.  Of course I doubt the overall figures also showed how many cyclists weren't cycling any more because they had chosen not to buy and wear a helmet - and no-one can tell how many the number will reduce because of this.  Just where do you stop with the figures - which do you choose to ask for and look at?  You need to see more than just the one figure. Just look at what has been happening in Colchester General Hospital with figures being manipulated to meet targets without a care for the patients.  Where there are places that the cycling routes are dangerous we should be highlighting these and looking for better solutions.  I remember seeing a website somewhere with pictures of ridiculous cycle pathway markings - pictures get the message across better.  Let's make sure it happens and ask for more cycle training in school - whether on cycles or not - let's make sure that young cyclists appreciate better the frailty and problems that can happen if they collide or frighten someone on the pavement.

Philippa Bond ● 4523d

Tony, It is definitely worth repeating that nobody here has said that cyclists should be riding on the pavement.I hope that resolves any confusion.

Ben Owen ● 4523d

You have no "opposition" Tony. Nobody here has said that cyclists should be riding along the roadside on the pavement.What you do have is people that think:1. People riding bikes on pavements carefully is not a major problem in the grand scheme of things, efforts would be better spent elsewhere if you want to bring down injuries and death on our pavements and roads.The police are able to (and do) issue fixed penalty notices to those over 16 year old riding on pavements in a selfish manner.2. Some cyclists that do (not all do) sometimes ride on pavements may do so for fear of riding on the road; wouldn't your not inconsiderable campaigning power be better spent campaigning for better cycling infrastructure so cyclist didn't feel the need to ride along the side of the road, but in it?3. Most people who ride bikes don't ride along on pavements, but use the road.

Paul James ● 4523d

Worth repeating now that the 'opposition' has had its say!

Tony Purton ● 4525d

Thank you Tony Purton for Your recent posting. I can appreciate the effort you made in researching the Issue.I am sure many members on the Forum will find it useful.I certainly will.

Os A Whittle ● 4540d

Paul saying he makes himself very very wide when seeing someone ride on the pavement! Phhh! Not good enough Paul!You need to improve. Take a lesson from the whistleblower!  On Thursday, as I am about to board a E3 bus at the junction of Drayton Bridge Road and Greenford Avenue I see a guy on a bike wearing hi-viz bombing down the pavement. And I mean speeding. With his hi-viz you couldn't miss him on the pavement! He's going so blinking fast I am even asking the bus driver to put his foot down so I can catch up with him because I want to have the chance to tell him to "get the duck off the whaling bike"! He is still on the pavement where Church Road spills out into Uxbridge Road. Still speeding. Swerving around people and cars exiting the petrol station. He is still on the pavement where Eccleston Road and Uxbridge Road meets. Eventually, at long last, he takes to the road. But not for long, he flips to the other side of the road joining the south side of Uxbridge Road where the new Morrisons (old Blockbusters) is. He is now bearing down on people at the 427 bus stop and the E3 bus stop squeezing and wobbling against the makeshift building boards where the new hotel is going to be before dismounting outside Nationwide. That is a mile on the pavement. With hi-viz on too. An utter disgrace to all responsible cyclists.But to restore the balance, guys, once the bus has stopped outside Wilkinson I leapt across the road and nailed him good and proper with a piece of my mind. Even managing to get a passing police officer(who cycles into work) to give him a ticket! (You can buy some Apple Strudel or Cheese Cake on 16 November!) Wouldn't you think he had learnt from that? Oh no, yesterday (Friday) morning around 10am the same guy - a youngish dark hair slicked back hair Italian man - again wearing hi-viz and a backpack is speeding along Greenford Avenue. He overtakes me (as I walking on the pavement) and I am yelling at him to stop. He brakes and looks over one shoulder and sees it is me! So, he decides not to hang around and makes off. I am legging it down Greenford Avenue to try and catch up with him. But failed guys. Sorreeeeeeeeeee! Message to self: must get fitter. Look out for this idiot guy. He wears hi-viz so very easy to pick out. Really do make yourself as wide as possible. Paul: chasing a pavement cyclist on a E3 bus is bloody hysterical. It gets the endorphins going! Give it a try!

Ben Owen ● 4540d

"It's unfortunate that some of those taking part in this discussion seem to be suggesting that anyone who complains about irresponsible cyclists must be making it up because they've never seen it themselves."That's a straw man, nobody is claiming that.I see cyclists jumping red lights AND riding without lights, I said it further up the thread.However, what I object to is the assertion that all cyclists are irresponsible.And also asking for a little balance, where are the threads about scofflaw car drivers on here? Why are cyclists as an entire group singled out for this treatment on this message board?Is it simply because they are a "minority" group? Because I can find bad behaviours amongst any "grouping" of people I choose, but it seems to only be certain groups that receive the stick.To add, bad cycling is a pain in the bum, and can injure and, very rarely, kill. Bad driving is probably more endemic percentage-wise, and that's what's really killing thousands a year and injuring hundreds of thousands.

Paul James ● 4540d

It's unfortunate that some of those taking part in this discussion seem to be suggesting that anyone who complains about irresponsible cyclists must be making it up because they've never seen it themselves. If I had the same opportunity that some cyclists have to film what actually happens perhaps they'd believe me. I've certainly considered doing so at the crossing on Uxbridge Road near Daniel's where I've seen so many cyclists race through red lights, even while people are crossing. I am in favour of cycling because it offers an affordable and sustainable means of transport, even though I don't engage in it, but as a pedestrian I'd just like some respect. Unfortunately I've found that every attempt to have a reasonable discussion about it on forums like this one ends up as a row about "them and us" so there doesn't seem to be much point in taking part. I know that some people in authority in the borough follow this forum and I hope they'll take notice of what's been said here and act on it.

Albertina McNeill ● 4541d

"Hated categories of road users?"I don't hate any category of road user.I'm a pedestrian, car driver and cyclist myself.What are you on about?

Paul James ● 4541d

Nope - it's all over.Except, I would venture to suggest, on the high-speed cycling commuter routes which most of your cycling miles are probably done on because on those routes you share the road with cyclists who are mostly affluent middle-class types like yourself who can easily afford whatever trimmings they like.

Tony Colliver ● 4541d

Yeah, well you no what - rules can be changed.Just like they were for your hated categories of road users in the past, so I wouldn't get too smug if I were you.

Tony Colliver ● 4541d

"...reasoned arguments..."Hilarious.I have never seen anything less "reasoned" in all my life.Now I know for certain what category to list you under.

Tony Colliver ● 4541d

Perfect example of a piece of infrastructure that's just not fit for purpose, needs a serious redesign.

Paul James ● 4542d

I did make the point that the cycling infrastructure needs to be improved - it isn't perfect - but there's no excuse for this kind of behaviour: http://greenford365.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/greenford365schoolboycyclistsgreenfordflyover2.jpg

Albertina McNeill ● 4542d

"I find it really irritating to see cyclists ignoring cyle paths where they are provided "Cycle paths are very often dangerous, in many cases it would be better if they weren't there at all, (in lieu of a properly set up cycle path).Cyclists are not mandated to use cycle paths and very often it would be inadvisable to do so, re: the cycle paths that run down the side of a line of parked cars right in the "dooring" zone.A coroner has just written to Boris Johnson criticising cycle paths as confusing and dangerous.http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/coroner-blasts-mayors-cycle-superhighway-as-accident-waiting-to-happen-at-inquest-of-man-killed-in-crash-with-tipper-truck-8879430.html

Paul James ● 4542d

I walk home from West Ealing to Greenford quite regularly and encounter cyclists who don't use lights on almost every journey. I am often the passenger in a car and see reckless behaviour on the part of cyclists, drivers (including bus drivers) and pedestrians on most of those trips as well. I know that many cyclists are responsible, I blogged about the local cycle workshop in Greenford last year (http://greenford365.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/london-bike-hub-workshop-queens-avenue/), unfortunately I'm forced to dive out of the way of the ones who aren't responsible, don't use lights and probably don't attend workshops. I noticed that more people began to cycle when fares increased and I doubt if most of them care about anything other than getting where they need to in the cheapest way available. Lights, bells and reflective clothing cost money. I can see why spending a tenner on lights is worth it (how much is your life worth?) but suspect you would have a hard time convincing some of the people I've seen racing along Uxbridge Road and Argyle Road in the evenings that this is the case. They rarely resemble Christmas trees. I've had two particularly frightening incidents that left me shaken. A cyclist raced round a steep, blind corner on the pavement near West Ealing station and only just managed to stop, his wheel a couple of inches from me, and then raced off again down the wrong side of the road before I could do anything. Another went straight past me through a red light on Uxbridge Road, near the fire station. He came so close it blew my hair about. There needs to be a combination of education, an improvement in the cycling infrastructure and increased attention from the police. I find it really irritating to see cyclists ignoring cyle paths where they are provided and blatantly breaking the rules. I was stunned to see how some behave around Greenford Flyover, cycling the wrong way down Greenford Road and along the slip roads. To be fair, many pedestrians behave stupidly there too. By all means, promote cycling as a sustainable, sensible form of transport but be prepared to police it and protect pedestrians from those who misbehave.

Albertina McNeill ● 4542d

Wow, there must be a particular problem with scrotes on bikes round your area right?I rarely see a cyclist without lights and I see hundreds every day, most of them have lights on their bikes and many on heads, arms, jackets, feet and all manner of other places.

Paul James ● 4542d

I would that it were the same cyclist.For my sins, I am a smoker. I don't smoke in my home and use either of my gardens to sate my filthy craving.I can categorically state that if I go into my front garden any night I will see at least half a dozen cyclists without lights in the time that it takes me to smoke a cigarette. great that cycling is popular, terrible that so many break the law on lighting.

Nigel Brooks ● 4542d

There must be a major problem with cyclists on pavements in Ealing for this level of emotion. Where though? I live in Northfields and commute daily on the Uxbridge road, but don't see bikes on the pavements. I have been watching out for them, having seen these threads. There are good cycle paths around Ealing, so it surprises me that all these hundreds of invisible cyclists would choose the inconvenience of cycling on pavements, instead of cycle paths or quieter side streets.

Ros Harrison ● 4542d

...and just to remind you, our carriageways are a PUBLIC space, everybody is entitled to use them, pedestrians are allowed to cross them, walk along them, and cyclists and horse riders are free to ride along them.The one exception is a motorway of course, where pedestrians, cyclists and horses are not allowed.High powered motorised vehicles though do not have such freedoms, to use such a vehicle on the carriageway it must be approved, and the driver must be licensed.

Paul James ● 4542d

I know it's the law, I'd never recommend riding at night without lights, and don't do it myself.Again, I rarely see an unlit cyclist. They are around, don't get me wrong, but the vast majority of cyclists have lights and use them.You sure you not seeing the same rider over and over again?

Paul James ● 4542d

"YES it is, rather than your usual dismissal, name one other section of road users that does not have to complete a competency test."Horse RidersInvalid Carriage RidersSkateboarders and skatersPedestrians"Just like it is for car users, motorcyclists, etc"Cars and motorcycles are heavy, high powered, complex  machines capable of high speeds and great damage, if you can't see the difference again, some perspective required.Sorry to disappoint you, testing and licensing of cyclists, never going to happen!

Paul James ● 4542d

A two word response, and my apologies to the more sensitive among us.Total Bollocks!Come to Boston Manor and count the number of unlit bikes using the road at nights, it would help you take off your blinkers. Good on you for telling them to buy a set of lights for a tenner Paul but they are not used by many around here and, once again, IT IS THE LAW!

Nigel Brooks ● 4542d

"Every other road user has to complete a test of basic competency"This is not true.YES it is, rather than your usual dismissal, name one other section of road users that does not have to complete a competency test.You'd have to make it illegal for a person to pop down the shops on a bike if they hadn't passed the test etc...Just like it is for car users, motorcyclists, etc. IF THEY HAVE NOT PASSED A TEST OF THEIR BASIC COMPTENCY TO USE THE ROAD!

Nigel Brooks ● 4542d

"But lights are and how many ride without?"Not many. I ride 30 miles across london every day and rarely see a cyclist without lights, in fact the massive majority are lit up like xmas trees. If I do see a cyclist without lights I'll generally have a word, reminding them that if they are struck by a driver who's not looking properly then they won't have a a leg to stand on, and that you can get a decent set of lights for a tenner so why take the risk.

Paul James ● 4542d

"Every other road user has to complete a test of basic competency"This is not true.Regardless of that I think, and recommend, ALL cyclists should get training, it's often free and useful even for those that have been cycling for years.However, to ensure all cyclists have completed training you'd need a licensing scheme and some sort of test. You'd have to make it illegal for a person to pop down the shops on a bike if they hadn't passed the test etc...You'd have to have police checking that cyclists had taken the test, and offences for those that ride a bike that hadn't.All would work to making cycling a thing of the past. Cool if that's what you want, but not something that authorities desire, in fact most if not all want to encourage cycling.Some reasoned arguments here:http://ipayroadtax.com/licensed-to-cycle/licensed-to-cycle/

Paul James ● 4542d

But lights are and how many ride without?As to "never will be" - never is a very long time.Every other road user has to complete a test of basic competency, why not cyclists?

Nigel Brooks ● 4542d

To remind you that it is not a legal requirement to wear a helmet whilst riding a bike, and never will be. Just as there will never be a licensing scheme for cycles or cyclists, compulsory cycling insurance, mandatory testing, and never will cyclists have to pay "Road tax" (VED). None of these things make any sense at all when you consider the ramifications.For instance, Melbourne AUS has a cycle hire scheme, helmets are mandated, hardly anybody uses the hire bikes.

Paul James ● 4542d

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/home-safety-and-security/better-neighbourhoods-pride-of-place-campaign/improve-your-local-neighbourhood/

Philippa Bond ● 4543d

https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/390440789609676800/photo/1  (16 October promoting Brompton bikes of Brentford)If you look at this twitter feed you will see that he was answering some questions yesterday.There is also comment on there about cycling helmets and how when the law came in in Australia the number of people cycling dropped.  So he seems to be rather conscious of numbers cycling and doing everything to raise the numbers so there may have to be a trade off.  Several prominent Brits have been cautioned by Australian police for not wearing cycling helmets including Sir Richard Branson.  Useful publicity both for the people and for the law.You could also try www.fixmytransport and see if you can create anything of interest there.

Philippa Bond ● 4543d

It is very important that cyclists speak up about the areas in particular where they feel endangered on the road.There are some very silly bits of cycling infrastructure.  Funding most often nowadays comes in the form of grants.  These grants have to be bid for by the Councils.  They are pots of money with lots of strings attached - so often cannot be spent exactly as wanted.Some of the cycle lanes just look as though they were bunged down without thought.  Perhaps the funding for thought was not attached to the grant.

Philippa Bond ● 4543d

Interesting story from Bristol:"A campaign group that made a stand against pavement cycling has appealed to Bristol City Council to improve its 'inadeqate' cycling provisions that force riders onto the pavement.Judith Brown, chairwoman of the Bristol Older People’s Forum, which has been campaigning against cyclists using pavements, attended a Sustainable Development and Transport Scrutiny Commission meeting on Thursday."http://road.cc/content/news/67162-pensioners-who-videoed-pavement-cyclists-bristol-are-now-campaigning-more-cycle

Paul James ● 4543d

"The ‘cycling lobby’ (including the CTC) insists on sharing the public pavements, uninvited, on the grounds that cyclists are no threat to pedestrians, that most pedestrians don’t mind, and it is safer for cyclists than riding on the roadways. "This is utter utter nonsense.I for one want to see proper roadside cycling infrastructure so cyclists DON'T cycle on pavements, so do the cyclists I speak to and so do the cycling organisations I know of.The irony is that when this is asked for it seems that the very people who moan most about cyclists reject the idea of proper cycling infrastructure on the grounds that all cyclists are nothing more than scofflaw scroungers that don't pay "Road tax".

Paul James ● 4543d

There is no reason why there shouldn't be more posters.  It is the same with littering and spitting.  Take the posters away and everyone seems to think that it is a free for all.If the Council has to rent space in the large advertising frames then obviously it would cost them more than if they used some of their own spaces.  Since it is a London-wide thing you maybe you could suggest that it is something that the Mayor of London would like to fund.  Then perhaps whatever artwork was provided could be used in every borough - and made available on banners!

Philippa Bond ● 4544d

Thank you Tony Purton for your Posting it was informative and very welcome. Agreed it needs to be focused upon .Has any one tried to visit Southall Broadway during the afternoon especially on a saturday or sunday? Pedestrians are constantly having a tough time trying to avoid being bumped from behind with the Buggy/shopping trolley brigade. I hate to think what might happen if cyclists too were allowed on to the pavements as-well. The pavement stalls are busy serving foods and cause groups that do not move along FREELY. Hightime the pavements should be a safer area for all pedestrians

Os A Whittle ● 4544d

Agreed Tony blah blib blab.... but do we need another thread on this subject? There is only so much that can be said.

Keith Iddon ● 4544d