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Cllr. Phil Taylor provikes outrage with David Attenborough attack

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/take-a-one-way-trip-to-switzerland-tory-councillor-phil-taylor-provokes-outrage-on-twitter-for-urging-sir-david-attenborough-to-commit-euthanasia-8824262.htmlFollowing the above report in The Independent, Phil Taylor should resign or be sacked immediately. I didn't think we had this kind of Tory in Ealing, but evidently we do. They are living in another world!

Simon Bell ● 4578d43 Comments

There is a difference in aid.  There is the instant help when people are starving through displacement and famine, and the help to make lives for themselves through education and training.  If you can support a project on the ground then you are more likely to be able to avoid the problems of corruption which have caused so much disillusionment with giving aid through governments and large charities.  The MicroLoan Foundation based in Chiswick is a small charity which tries to do this.There is nothing more satisfying than helping someone who has aspiration to improve their life and achieve and help their fellow countrymen rather than just throwing cash at the problem/begging bowl.

Philippa Bond ● 4562d

Spend some time 'on the ground' - I will be  next year.I can only feedback the comments from friends in Ghana and Senegal, and while I may have made a sweeping generalisation the facts are there to behold. Countries full of resources without the will to exploit them and get themselves out of a dependency culture. This is why Chinese firms are piling in to exploit the resources that many African nations have failed to do. I doubt that the indigenous population will benefit much from this 'investment' and, as such, they can only blame themselves while, at the same time, hanging out the begging bowls.

Nigel Brooks ● 4562d

It remains a lazy stereotype Nigel.There are many who would say the same about their fellow Britons, but it doesn't make it true.

Steve Lee ● 4562d

Indeed, that was 'The Lad himself' Tony Hancock when asked by his landlady (played by the woefully underrated Patricia Hayes) "How do you want your eggs, fried or boiled? Sadly, often attributed to Bill Fields.If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.

Nigel Brooks ● 4565d

"fried or boiled" I believe comes from an advert from the egg marketing council - where somebody at a greasy spoon is asked "How d'yer like yer eggs boiled or fried" to which he then drifts off into a reverie about alternate means of production

Andrew Mcauley ● 4565d

Ah, W C Fields lives."Do you like children?"  "I do if they're properly cooked."  He never said boiled or fried as is commonly believed.My favourite 'Bill Fields' quote:"Start every day with a smile and get it over with!"

Nigel Brooks ● 4565d

Damn I was hoping for something more Swiftian... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_ProposalAll for those who produce having to fund. Also all for social housing to add into the mix.

Andrew Mcauley ● 4565d

Andrew, I propose no changes to existing claims.If life changes mean that, as example, the father of six who walks away from the family unit, then he should be pursued and prosecuted to provide full support until the children reach their majority. If, sadly, he passes away then that is what life insurance is for. I wouldn't have though of having my (two) children unless I was sure that they could be fully cared for.Some families need to understand that their children are their responsibility. Society will educate them and provide free health care but beyond that for the first two children nothing, nada.

Nigel Brooks ● 4565d

I'm a fan of "as many kids as you can currently afford" AND "no kids until you've pasaed a parenting exam" but how about when life changes through no fault of one's own and one can no longer afford that many kids? Do you have a modest proposal for us?Catholic fecundity is not a lack of self control but a conscious choice. One might even say an obligation.

Andrew Mcauley ● 4565d

I resent having to pay through my taxes for the profligacy of others. If the parents of four, five six, whatever children families are fully capable of supporting ALL of the costs of raising their large families then wonderful.However, I do suspect there is a degree or more of 'the state will pay' among those choosing (and it is a choice) to have large families.The simple solution would be to make it less attractive and reduce state aid. Child Benefit(as it was) was only ever payable for the first two children.Why not revert to this? Existing claims would be unaffected and give 12 months (three more than is needed) notice of the reversion.If you want ten kids then great, but don't expect others to pick up the tab for your lack of self-control.

Nigel Brooks ● 4565d

What's that from the Catholoc Herald of July 2013?"For you young Catholic people who are marrying on your 20s, you can expect, God willing and absent a physical impairment or grave reason, to have a home filled with many children. You should mentally, physically and spiritually prepare for seven, eight, nine or more children, given your ages."http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2013/07/29/has-the-church-succumbed-to-an-anti-family-culture/

Andrew Mcauley ● 4565d

Huge catholic families is so 1950s.Part of the reason why Irish Catholic families were so large was indeed adherence to the teachings of the Catholic church but actually it mainly had more to do with  poverty, poor health and very low survival rate. Large families were often needed to provide the manpower of survival.We still see this today in parts of the third world. In Zambia the average family is 7 but the survival rate is for just 3 out of those 7 to live past 20.The life expectancy there is just 38 years. That puts the shock of 12 year old mothers into perspective as  they are almost middle aged.We have families simply breeding by benefit in this area. Not because of poverty but because of cultural teachings and the benefits and housing priorities that come with bigger families.In Brentford, some of the Somalian families are huge. We've recently volunteered to help a family of 9, and whilst the Dad is in work, and works hard, they will never earn enough to fully support the family.  While we now know them well, we are a bit uncomfortable about their motives for such a large family in the safety of the UK.

Oliver Gregan ● 4565d

No, they are not fundamentalist Catholics, they are just Roman Catholics. Fundamentalist Christian  faiths cover the whole spectrum on contraception (for and against) depending on type of Christianity.

Kieren A Wroblewski ● 4565d

Funny that when people refer to fundamentalism in Islam they more normally seem to be referring to terrorists than people who follow the teaching of the prophet (pbuh) as espoused through the Qu'ran more rigidly. I would still however argue that if one seeks to pursue the teachings of the Catholic Church as a be all and end all with no regard to real life concerns such as contraception one might allowedly be referred to same as fundamentalist Catholics.

Andrew Mcauley ● 4565d

Catholics are not fundamentalist. They are just complicated. Fundamental Christianity requires strict adherenence to the Bible as a complete guide to living your life, Catholicism interprets the Bible in the Roman Catholic Catechism which is the interpreted guide to the Bible teachings as to how they should be applied to life. A matter of hermeneutics.

Kieren A Wroblewski ● 4565d

Sheesh those fundamentalist Catholics... ;)

Andrew Mcauley ● 4565d

Not in Ealing and Brentford.Have you seen the size of some of the families in Brentford?Several I know have 6 plus children all under 12.

Michael Brandt ● 4565d

On learning that one of the competitions that Clr Scumner runs that he wins prizes in is called the Ealing in Bloom Compeition I had a look at the article about in this Ealing Gazette and found that the Chairman of the Ealing in Bloom effort was one Nigel Sumner (I though his name really was Scumner until I was clued in by my more savvy friends that his real name was Sumner and not Scumner. Reading further I found that the winners for the Large Allotment Plot, sponsored by John Lewis - Nigel (Clr Scumner himself!) and Lynne Sumner. Wow! reading further, Ealing's Labour Mayor awarded the prizes in a ceremony in Ealing Town Hall: "Winners of the 18 categories were presented with an award and prize money by Ealing mayor Khamaljit Dhindsa." Are they all at it (politicians of all parties in Ealing)? Does anyone care? What happened to ethics and standards? What happened to even vaguely truthful journalism? Why has the Ealing Gazette not picked up on this - surely the real story is about the insider awards?

Kieren A Wroblewski ● 4565d

More or Less took this up on Radio 4 at 4:30 this afternoon. Their expert reckoned that the world's population would not rise anything like as fast as predicted -- that birth rates were falling all over the world and there have been no cases of countries where the birth rate started to climb again after falling.

Susan Kelly ● 4568d

Talk to Africans in the UK who are FAR more damning than me about their fellow countrymen. Ask a Nigerian why women are almost all gainfully employed but the me are not and he will tell you that it has nothing to do with poverty and everything to do with (a total lack of) motivation. These are potentially some of the richest nations on earth who , at its simplest, need to harness their human resources.

Nigel Brooks ● 4568d

Quite amused to see Phil made the national press with this. I'm not surprised at his irritation at David Attenborough's use of his "national treasure" status.  I'm sure many will find the ideas of the group he supports rather uncomfortable.Don't think I'll take up twitter.

Philippa Bond ● 4568d

Glad to see that Phil has not resigned, quit, or anything like that. He is an effective (though sometimes mis-guided) councillor whose politics I do not agree with; however: 'I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it' as Evelyn Beatrice Hall (Voltaire's pseudonymous biographer) used the quote 'I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it' to describe Voltaire's attitude toward free speech.

Kieren A Wroblewski ● 4568d

I despair because you raised an interesting and important issue (the potential for agriculture in Africa) which merits sensible discussion - where can the necessary capital come from? how can farming methods be improved? how can we ensure it is sustainable and benefits the local population? etc - but opted for the stereotype of lazy Africans sitting around with their hands out for aid. Blaming the poor for their poverty ensures nobody will ever get out of it.You are bang on about corruption in governments though.

Steve Lee ● 4576d

Quite.

Tony Colliver ● 4576d

I'm not saying that what Phil Taylor said was sensible or wise: it's the hysterical response that's so silly, the determination to take offence and the blowing up out of all proportion.

Susan Kelly ● 4576d

Has Attenborough actually said he he was advocating the sterilisation of African's?If you read the Population matters info they recommend education and  planned pregnancies not mass sterilisation.

Kim Rugg ● 4576d

Regardless of the original comments discussed on this thread, I think the concept that "Mustapharuns" might work for the council because he / she is so well informed is laughable.All of the information about Ealing is very much in the public domain and familiar to all of us who use this forum regularly.  It would be great to have some inside information again, it always adds to the debate and helps cut throught the pointless politics.

Phil Kay ● 4577d

About what Steve?Many, not all, of the problems are as a result of systemic failures by 'elected' government.I speak (almost) every week to a mate in Nkoranza, Ghana. Almost 20% of their national income is aid income.He despairs as this means that they will never get out of a cycle of dependency.Ingredients for the  national dish  (a  tomato and rice stew) are no longer grown locally. Why? Because the government 'centralised' tomato production into an area with poor transport infrastructure meaning that the fruits went (and are still going) rotten before they could be used.The food is grown but doesn't get to the people. As Stephen (my mate) often says 'we are a rich country, but we rely on foreigners - why?'

Nigel Brooks ● 4577d

I despair, I really do.

Steve Lee ● 4577d

Yep.

Rosco White ● 4577d

Some of the comments attached to this article are *brilliant*. I particularly liked the one by Mustapharuns (I wonder if Mustapharuns works for Ealing Council? He seems to know rather a lot).Mustapharuns wrote:"Some points about the London Borough of Ealing's politicians: 1) Having closed down several day centres for the disabled, mentally ill, etc., and generally downgraded support for the vulnerable in Ealing (going against a manifesto promise not to cut services) to fund a 2.5 million pound car park in Southall (where he is the paid researcher for the political constituency's sitting Labour M.P.), Councillor Julian Bell and his clique have shown little regard for socialism or humanitarianism and it is he who many residents of Ealing would like to take a one-way trip to Switzerland putting him on a very precarious soap-box to make his statements having reduced the quality of life for many disabled people in Ealing - and probably shortening their lives.2) Tory councillor Phil Taylor would be better off seeking to send some of the Teflon(r)-coated "nose in the trough" Ealing Tory councillors on a "one-way trip" to Switzerland and in so doing address more relevant issues of short-comings in the overall fairness of the activities of Ealing's Tories - a case in point being Tory councillor Nigel Scumner known for supporting Phil Talyor's quest for Tory fairness in Ealing by running competitions like Ealing in Bloom where he and his family regularly win prizes.Clean house at home first Misters Taylor and Bell first before validating your right to make value-judgements about greater people!Musti."Musti makes a good point that these politicians rather then trying to get each other sacked from Ealing Council ought to get their houses in order first and address some of their own social and ethical problems.

Kieren A Wroblewski ● 4577d

Preview MessagePlease review your post. If everything is OK, click Submit below. Otherwise,click the Back button on your browser to make corrections.Topic: Comments are worth reading attached to the Independent article Message:Some of the comments attached to this article are *brilliant*. I particularly liked the one by Mustapharuns (I wonder if Mustapharuns works for Ealing Council? He seems to know rather a lot).Mustapharuns wrote:"Some points about the London Borough of Ealing's politicians: 1) Having closed down several day centres for the disabled, mentally ill, etc., and generally downgraded support for the vulnerable in Ealing (going against a manifesto promise not to cut services) to fund a 2.5 million pound car park in Southall (where he is the paid researcher for the political constituency's sitting Labour M.P.), Councillor Julian Bell and his clique have shown little regard for socialism or humanitarianism and it is he who many residents of Ealing would like to take a one-way trip to Switzerland putting him on a very precarious soap-box to make his statements having reduced the quality of life for many disabled people in Ealing - and probably shortening their lives.2) Tory councillor Phil Taylor would be better off seeking to send some of the Teflon(r)-coated "nose in the trough" Ealing Tory councillors on a "one-way trip" to Switzerland and in so doing address more relevant issues of short-comings in the overall fairness of the activities of Ealing's Tories - a case in point being Tory councillor Nigel Scumner known for supporting Phil Talyor's quest for Tory fairness in Ealing by running competitions like Ealing in Bloom where he and his family regularly win prizes.Clean house at home first Misters Taylor and Bell first before validating your right to make value-judgements about greater people!Musti."Musti makes a good point that these politicians rather then trying to get each other sacked from Ealing Council ought to get their houses in order first and address some of their own social and ethical problems.Forum Home

Kieren A Wroblewski ● 4577d

You would say that though, wouldn't you!!!

Bud Richards ● 4577d

Perhaps he should simply have told him to "go to hell" as Attenborough clearly doesn't have a clue about "Life on Earth".

Nigel Brooks ● 4577d

As a person who advocates the right to die when I want to I am indignant at the stupidity of this councillor's inane comments -- moreover because having met the local MP at the House of Commons who is reluctant to consider the merits of the "Dignity in Dying" argument, I don't think Phil Taylor is expressing a considered viewpoint by telling someone to go to Switzerland......it is not an expression of free speech it is the reverse...it's a thug's version of dismissing any rational argument and merely telling someone to go to hell. 

Pamela Kay ● 4577d

""Dickie" is Davids brother. The reason there is outrage is that he posted this on a public forum and one expects elected councillors to display more respect, especially for a man held in such regard by the nation."You're quite right, it's David not 'Dickie'. I don't see why this so called 'national treasure' status should insulate people from criticism. I think we've seen in recent months that a few 'national treasures' have (allegedly) been anything but.Taylor missed a trick: he should have queried whether Attenborough would champion the sterilization of his own grandchildren. It seems to be what he is advocating for Africans.

John Walker ● 4577d

Who gives a toss, it's Politically Correct Mock Outrage, and ALL the Parties indulge in it.Aren't there FAR more important things to get het up about?!!

Rosco White ● 4577d

Read Attenborough's article"too many people and not enough land for Africa’s food shortages".What absolute boll**ks. Despotic dictators, plumb bloody idleness and a reliance on aid more like.While I wouldn't have couched my response in the same way as Cllr. Taylor, Attenborough should stick to wildlife documentaries as he clearly doesn't know that Africa has 60, yes 60 per cent of the world's uncultivated land. Almost a BILLION acres laying idle waiting to be farmed. Not the deserts but land that has been deemed suitable for agriculture (sources Ghana Govt. Agriculture Bureau and the World Bank). The world Bank estimate that not only is there more than enough land to feed all in Africa but a potential $30 TRILLION export business for African-grown produce.Time that Africa put it's collective hand to the plough rather than the begging bowl!

Nigel Brooks ● 4577d

Couldn't agree more about the whole 'offence' thing. An awful lot of people like nothing better than to be offended, usually claiming that it's on behalf of someone else.

Susan Kelly ● 4577d

People look for a reason to be offended. The fact that he speaks his mind is fine me.

Adrian Orchard ● 4577d

Phil said a dumb thing, who hasn't?Why do we love to allow ourselves to be offended so much nowadays? I saw people saying they were offended by the bunny ears above the Prime Minister by Manu Tuilagi. Really?????People need to take things on the chin more. Free speech created tolerance, oppression destroys it.

Benjamin Dennehy ● 4578d

"Dickie" is Davids brother. The reason there is outrage is that he posted this on a public forum and one expects elected councillors to display more respect, especially for a man held in such regard by the nation. Having read his other Tweets today, it's par for the course. He's clearly a right wing "piece of work" of the worst kind.

Simon Bell ● 4578d

It was a stupid thing to say but I don't see the big deal. I'm sure Dickie is man enough to take it and just think 'what a twat'.Why does everyone in politics feel the need to get so hyper sensitive about everything?

John Walker ● 4578d