Forum Topic

Attention All Cyclists

A Red Light Means STOP

Walter Wyeth ● 4613d28 Comments

Paul,If any cyclist is afraid to use their cycle on certain parts of the road, get off and WALK with it on the footpath until you find a stretch of road that you feel safe with. And whilst your are at it, go on a cycling proficiency course....I suppose that would be too much like having regard for other pedestrians though . Older people in particular find it difficult and intimidating when a cyclist goes past them from behind or when one comes wobblig toward them. Footpaths are not designed for cycling,they do not provide the spacve for a cyclist to go fast enough safely for cycling to be worthwhile.GET OFF AND WALK.

Keith Iddon ● 4606d

I have no great issue with a cyclist using the pavement when they have no reasonable alternative. If they cycle with due care and attention sometimes it is safer for all.I DO have a real problem with Lycra-clad camera wearing muppets who cycle hell-for-leather on crowded pavements scattering other road users. Doubly so at night when they do the same with no lights.

Nigel Brooks ● 4606d

Keith re pavement cyclingOn 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. At the time Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by 'Community Support Officers' and wardens."CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)

Paul James ● 4606d

I have no problems with cyclists going through a red light if its safe and clear to do so...surely this is also beneficial to drivers as you're not holding up the traffic by being in the way when the lights change back to green. But it seems that drivers in London think they are always the priority and have the right of way, which is why I don't cycle here and drive as little as possible to avoid the stress.

Vic Green ● 4607d

Fair point Keith about cycling on pavements (quite the most irritating and irresponsible thing). But this thread started with an unexplained post about cyclists stopping at red lights. The implication being that each every infraction of a red light by a cyclist is evil and dangerous. That is, of course, complete pants.Example 1 - stopped at red lights, with plenty of cars behind me, I often watch the cycle of lights and move off on my bike early (while my lane is still on red). This clears the bike-only box in front of the lights to make it easier for cars behind to get going when the lights do turn green.Example 2 - coming up to a pedestrian crossing when all pedestrians are safely out of the way and when for me to stop would slow the progress of cars behind once the lights switch from red to amberExample 3 - while crossing the top of a T-junction, when there is no more traffic to come into the T, and there are no pedestrians looking to cross, and when me stopping on my bike would mean stopping in front of the cars sat on red.I could, in all the above instances, dilligently wait in front of the line of cars until red changes to green. I could then nice and slowly (compared to a vehicle acceleration) move off. But this would also slow all but the most dangerous and selfish drivers (who push past too close to me). Or annoy the drivers illegally hogging the cycle box at the lights. Safe and considerate jumping of red lights is very possible and achieved daily.(Note: for those unable to comprehend simple things - my post is not to recommend, support or condone dangerous / thoughtless jumping of red lights.)

Alan Clark ● 4607d

I think just about all of us are fed up of footpath cyclists Paul. I agree, too many cyclists and drivers ignore the highway code. But the only wheeled vehicles on a footpath should be prams and wheelchairs imo.

Keith Iddon ● 4607d

So, can somebody explain the phsycology or motivation driving people to come on local forums starting threads with titles like this, but we rarely see, if ever, similar posts about motor vehicle drivers please?

Paul James ● 4607d

I get so damned annoyed with drivers/cyclists who use their mobiles when driving.Just back from west Wales where I know that there are less demands on the police but where traffic violations are actually enforced.PCSOs stop pavement cycling. They had a 'swoop squad' checking on every 'dodgy' looking vehicle. Signs warning that they enforce 'no mobiles while driving' and I saw a cyclist get pulled for speeding (down the long hill into Felindre Farchog where he overtook a police car and triggered the roadside  SAFE SPEED sign.I guess it's a cultural/ pace of life thing as drivers stop to let each other out of side roads, don't jump lights and are generally far more courteous.

Nigel Brooks ● 4607d

Attention ALL road users.I’m a driver, cyclist and pedestrian. I walk a short journey into work every day through South Ealing, then along and across the A4 and just this morning I saw within 50 yards:*Car driver in the fast lane of the A4 on their mobile (in fact this isn’t unusual I’d probably see 5 drivers doing this if I looked properly)*Car driver ignore a no right hand turn sign across the A4 and run through a pedestrian crossing with the ‘green man’ on and at speed.*Car driver ignore/speed up through a red light*Car driver ignore a pedestrian waiting to cross at a pelican crossing*A cyclist ignore a red light*A cyclist using the pavement where there was a perfectly good and free cycle lane*Another cyclist with a sandwich trailer using the same pavement and wearing head phones*A pedestrian wearing head phones walk into the path of an oncoming vehicle completely unaware of the danger they were placing themselves in or that the driver had to take avoiding actionI think we all are guilty at time of not adhering to the highway code BUT perhaps the problem is that we can get away with it – there’s usually no consequence. I drove 300 miles up north this weekend from London and only saw 1 traffic police car in the entire journey. There’s been plenty of discussion of cyclists getting insurance etc which is completely impossible to regulate. Perhaps the police could confiscate the bicycle of users flouting the highway code and not returning it until the owner has completed a police organised cycle proficiency course – then there would be a consequence BUT we need to have the police to enforce the law of the roads to ALL road users.Ps the poor fella who died in Chiswick stepped out into the path of a passing cyclist.

Vic Green ● 4607d

"I hope they find the cyclist who knocked over and killed an old man in Chiswick and throw the book at him (10-1, it's a him)."Susan do you have inside info? You seem very confident that the cyclist knocked over and "killed" someone in chiswick but how are you so sure the pedestrian didn't walk out in front of the cyclist? The police have only confirmed a minor collision which at the time didn't seem serious - the pedestrian was taken ill some time later.To those that don't bandy about accusations of people "killing" others this would seem to indicate the cyclist was moving pretty slowly - if this is correct the cyclist is very likely feeling pretty awful already without people accusing them of killing the person they were in collision with.

Chris Martin ● 4607d

Bud, I don't jump red lights on my bike, I know many Cyclists that won't.I see many people on bikes that do, but also many car drivers jumping red at speed just after it changed, these are the people that do real damage on a daily basis.

Paul James ● 4607d

I hope they find the cyclist who knocked over and killed an old man in Chiswick and throw the book at him (10-1, it's a him).

Susan Kelly ● 4608d

Glad someone picked up on that Keith - pot and kettle sprang to mind!

Bud Richards ● 4611d

It's not an excuse to break the law at all, I'm annoyed when I see cyclists on the pavement and jumping red lights, it gives a bad impression of cyclists in general. I doubt the cyclists who break the rules read this forum though. The ones I see riding on the pavement tend to be teenage boys. Just don't understand the constant picking on cyclists in this forum. Every day I see people dropping litter, driving badly, playing annoying music on their mobile etc and all sorts of other selfish actions, but it seems cyclists are what annoy people most! It would be a shame if all the anger and vitriol put off people taking up an environmentally friendly, quiet, healthy way of keeping fit that eases congestion on the road.

Emily Heath ● 4611d

The Highway Code is essential reading for everyone. Many of the rules in The Highway Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence.A RED light means ‘Stop’. Wait behind the stop line on the carriageway.A GREEN light means you may go on if the way is clear. Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to pedestrians who are crossing.

Fred Hunt ● 4611d

I'd say it's about 50/50 from my observations. The obvious problem is they will nearly always get away with it.

Jim McCauley ● 4612d

No, but most do. I never said all cyclists jump red lights.

Alex Weel ● 4612d

That's rubbish Paul and you are generalising every bit as much as the op. I see far more cyclists jumping lights, the worst thing, particularly as a pedestrian, is you don't know whether they are going to stop or not.There is no excuse, driver or cyclist.

Keith Iddon ● 4612d

You need to stop generalising Alex, not all cyclists jump red lights.

Paul James ● 4612d

Yes, of course that's true. I made the point in response to your original finger-jabbing observation about drivers. Of course drivers need to stop at red lights. But you seem to be using the fact that a cyclist is far less likely to kill someone as an excuse for breaking the law. I consider myself a safe and considerate driver. I give cyclists ample room, don't overtake aggressively or shout at them when they block my path. However, I lose my respect for cyclists when they flagrantly break the law by nonchalantly disregarding red lights. Oh, and by the way, a few months ago a cyclist who had gone through a red light at the Ealing Green junction at around 15 - 20 mph almost smashed into me and my one year old son outside his nursery. So don't tell me you cyclists don't have the potential to do plenty of damage yourselves.

Alex Weel ● 4612d

Motorists jumping red lights is NOT an exceptions though. Stand at any lights and the last one, two or three vehicles will jump the amber or red, at speed too usually.

Paul James ● 4612d

I agree, a careless car driver is much more likely to kill or cause severe injury than a cyclist.Having said that, a couple of years ago a selfish careless cyclist was speeding on the pavement in our residential road and a three year old child and mum were leaving their front garden(child leading the way first) and a collision suddenly happened causing serious injuries and distress. The cylcist didn't stop and disappeared - never caught.This was a very unusul incident - its still the case that careless car drivers are more likely to cause serious injuries compared to careless cyclists imo.

Gerry Tan ● 4612d

It's an exception that is much more likely to kill someone.

Emily Heath ● 4612d

There are stupid Motorists- that is beyond dispute. The point that i was trying to make is that in an urban environment, Cyclists are likely to be seriously harmed by flouting regulations. Could someone also explain why there appears to be an increasing number of cyclists wearing headphones?I also saw a Learner Motorcyclist on the pavement on Northfields Avenue.

Walter Wyeth ● 4612d

I have just got back from a really bad day with bloody drivers risking my life by doing such things as pointless overtaking (a car overtook me only to have to brake 20 yards further up the road to stop at the traffic lights [between McDonalds in Acton High Street and Steyne Road]; seeing two drivers on their phones: one was talking and the other much worse texting [both on the Fulham Palace Road]). Now I am home having cycled through the wind and rain - with lights - and I read this incredibly irritating, stupid and juvenile post. This attitude is only going to cause more of a division between motorists and cyclists. Is this a helpful and healthy view to promote on this forum? We get picked on because cyclists who break the rules are simply more conspicuous when they flout the law than motorists. We are slower and more identifiable. Plain as that. Take it from me that I get annoyed seeing cyclists go through red lights and cross zebra crossings without stopping just as much as I see drivers doing the same thing. Now that mouthful is out, here are two cases to illusrate how selfish and mad some - only some - drivers are driving on our roads today:This afternoon (Wednesday), in Greenford Avenue at the junction of Drayton Bridge Road, a car 'broke down' because her steering wheel seized up. I went to help her only to find that she had somehow wrapped her bloody handset round the steering wheel so it wouldn't budge. It didn't seep into her conscience that tail backs were rapidly growing and once I managed to set her 'free' she did not thank me or apologise to any of the other drivers stuck behind her. The only thanks I got were from those drivers caught up in the traffic or those waiting for their bus that was stuck in the jam.  What a selfish woman. Three weeks ago a driver at the haulage firm JJ Transport based in Greenford, attempted to knock me off my bike, on the Chelsea Embankment, by deliberately driving his lorry into the kerb at around 25mph. To have someone in around five tonnes of metal bearing down on you and you are just flesh and bone is mindboggling and frigtening. A DANGEROUS driver.This was his reaction after I screamed at him to get off his phone. Yes, to get off his mobile phone held to his ear whilst driving, of all things, in a HEAVY GOODS VEHICLE. Is it unreasonable for a cyclist to ask a lorry driver to get off his handheld phone? I don't think so. The poor chappie was not satisfied that he failed to crush me or knock me off my bike, so he then stopped his lorry bang in the middle of two lanes of traffic, jumped out of the cab and physically intimidated me. No car drivers or van drivers who witnessed the incident stopped to help. More SELFISH and INCONSIDERATE motorists.Later I complained to the company about the driver's behaviour only for them to claim they didn't own any lorries that had JJ Transport livery on their cabs! Where on earth do they think I got the company name and telephone number from to make the complaint? I was almost told by them that there was no such company called JJ Transport. The company certainly didn't care one cahoot about the incident. The story about the lorry I hope highlights the risks that cyclists are faced with every day just trying to get about London in going about their usual business. I don't know why but I think the antagonism is getting much worse. Perhaps it might have something to do with the growing popularity of cycling, or could it be that in the daytime cyclists are often the fastest things on the roads. On a final note, does anyone out there know of one single person who has quit driving because they're too worried about being hit by a bicycle? Own up if you have.

Ben Owen ● 4612d

A driver disobeying this rule is an exception. A cyclist disobeying this rule is the norm.

Alex Weel ● 4612d

Would be nice if drivers obeyed this rule too (I say this as a pedestrian who has seen many a car shoot through a red light).

Emily Heath ● 4612d

Not in Amsterdam...

Philip Coe ● 4612d