Forum Topic

Closure of Ealing Hospital

I was very saddened to read that Ealing Hospital is to be closed and a new smaller hospital costing £19million to be built.I just don't understand the logic and the brains behind this daft scheme.As we all know, the hospital serves an increasing population which will only continue to increase especially in Southall. There are lots of people who are not on the census or registrar because they are illegal ( I estimate 100,000 people) who will also need healthcare. We have been told that hospitals need to save money but if we look at how much salaries and bonuses the management of Ealing hospital are getting and how much money is wasted on other matters in the hospital.I hope we all fight tooth and nail and stop them from closing the hospital. I read that Angie Bray had a meeting with David Cameron last month about Ealing Hospital but that didnt make any difference. So What can we all do because if Ealing Hospital closes, then lots of lives will be lost unnecessarily due to delays in getting to an alternative hospital such as Paddington or Northwick which would take over an hour to get to or even longer considering the traffic and rush hour and road accidents.

Asha Smith ● 4785d56 Comments

We are allowing this to continue.We vote locally every four years and nationally every five years for people to represent our interests and views. Find someone locally who shares your views in 2014 and vote for them locally. Find someone else who shares your views in 2015 and vote for them nationally.Find an action group who agree with you and join them and be active. If such a group does not exist then form one.As the great Tom Paine said in the 18th Century:'Lead, follow or get out of the way'

Eric Alan Leach ● 4755d

Ealing hospital has been abused for a long time by people, many of whom don't even belong in the country  as well as malingerers who block A&E with minor issues which are not 'emergency' cases. How is it possible to state that there are thousands of illegals who will 'need' healthcare !!!! If they are illegal they should not be getting healthcare but a ticket back to  wherever they came from..... This is why the NHS is in trouble in the first place. What's wrong with this country which is allowing this to continue ????

Marie Anne OConnell ● 4755d

To be more precise about Urgent Care Centres (UCCs). They are just large GP surgeries staffed by just GPs and nurses. No blue light ambulances deliver patients to UCCs

Eric Alan Leach ● 4756d

They are a walk-in service for patients with minor illnesses and injuries that require urgent attention but that are not critical or life-threatening.They do not deal with ambulance cases.Example: they can deal with a sprained thumb but not a complex wrist fracture.

Nigel Brooks ● 4757d

Just what are Urgent Care Centres and how do they differ from an A & E department

Keith Mason ● 4757d

There is an article in today's Mail on Sunday which states: Madness of the Urgent Care Centres that don't even have any doctors!Damning official survey of clinics replacing closed A&Es reveals staff who can't prescribe drugs - and sometimes aren't there at all.Heaven help us if this is what the NHS will be like in the future.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4776d

For years, the NHS has been full of 'dead wood'.overstaffed with unecessary personell who could be done without eg.staff walking around with pieces of paper,others not pulling their weight,and a general wastage in all areas.It's time to clear out all but essential qualified and dedicated workforce who can manage without these non-productive people.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 4778d

Thank you Jean ...

Marie Anne OConnell ● 4778d

I hope that the real reason for a re-build is not just to fill a back pocket. The Central Middlesex hospital in Park Royal has only recently been replaced, and the impression I get is that the new building is much smaller and contains a huge amount of empty space.

Chris Bell ● 4778d

Hope everything goes well Marie.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4778d

The asbestos was inspected but left alone.The hospital could have been built on deep piles similar to the South Acton tower blocks which had piles that had to go 200 feet before they hit anything solid.

Chris Bell ● 4778d

Under COSHH rules they would have had to deal with the asbestos when they demolished the building anyway. If it is stable the best thing to do with asbestos is to leave it alone. I speak from experience of having had to help raise £400,000 to remove unstable blue and white asbestos from a local church.When Ealing Hospital was built there was rumour that it should never have been built on the Brent flood plain as subsidence would eventually cause problems. Wait until they use that a justification for its closure!

Nigel Brooks ● 4778d

Why demolish a hospital just to build a new one? What is wrong with the existing building? I worked in a building for several years that contained some asbestos in the roof space and one of the reasons given why it was eventually demolished was that "it was cheaper than dealing with the asbestos".

Chris Bell ● 4778d

My father's 80, Anne-Marie, living on a state pension. £30 is a week's food money.

Susan Kelly ● 4778d

So now UKIP has given the Tories a thrashing at the bye election, all they have to do is promise not to close down our hospitals wholesale and then...............????

George Knox ● 4778d

The real issue is that the Bankers and their friends in government via the PFI financing have left local health authorities with the worst possible deal. Labour created the mess and the Tories in opposition highlighted it. But once in power have decided to do nothing about it. Please read attached linkhttp://www.nhsforsale.info/privatisation-list/surgery/the-great-pfi-swindle.html?utm_source=NHS+Supporters&utm_campaign=dfa63fbfc6-NHS+For+Sale%3F&utm_medium=emailSo £70billion for £12 billion worth of hospitals. Finance by wonga.com!!!

Peter Chadburn ● 4779d

Thanks Nigel ...

Marie Anne OConnell ● 4779d

SO WHAT !! Why should the NHS provide transport.....typical attitude....everything for nothing is the expectation !!!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 4779d

Good luck with the operation. Wish you well soon.

Nigel Brooks ● 4779d

Yes Jean something must be done. I am just about to have an operation done in a private hospital and I have to fill out loads of forms, and all kinds of checks are made including having to submit a credit/debit card all to make sure they  are  guaranteed payment before any treatment can starts. Of course there was lots of objection to ID cards because most of the objectors probably wouldn't be eligible for the service thus highlighting the need for some kind of insurance system. The government is more interested in winning votes. Since  so many of their constituents are non contributors the MPs don't want to upset them or lose their votes....what a weak government we have who haven't got the backbone to do what's needed.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 4779d

Don't forget that, while if you call an ambulance you may get a free ride to the nearest A&E, you will then be left to make your own way home. This happened to my father recently when his local A&E in High Wycombe was closed; after a fall he was carted off to Stoke Mandeville, given the all-clear and told to take a taxi the 15 miles home cross country, which cost him £30, a sum which he could ill afford.

Susan Kelly ● 4779d

Even if we had some form of ID there is no guarantee that the doctors would actually check or if they found that someone was a health tourist - would they actually turn them away? I doubt it!When the idea of an ID card was suggested there was massive opposition, yet I cannot understand why. If this is the only way to save our NHS then so be it - something must be done.We seem to have a succession of weak governments when serious decisions MUST be made for the benefit of the indiginous population.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4779d

Yes of course it's about money... There isn't enough !! This is because of  foreigners, immigrants, illegals, medical tourists etc  draining the funds without ever having put any contributions into the pot....many abuse the system by clogging up A&E  departments with trivial non urgent demands.  Unless immigration is halted, we will lose the NHS....also there should be a system whereby only people who have paid into the system  can have treatment by way of an ID card for proof. Otherwise the only option is to convert to a medical insurance scheme as in the US then the misuse and abuse wiould be greatly reduced.... Hard measures for hard times. ....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 4779d

Not only that Keith, how on earth would family and friends get to the far distant hospital to visit you?You, and they, would be in unfamiliar surroundings at a very stressful time.The people who are making these rash decisions are certainly NOT thinking about the NHS patients, this is all about money. Just think how much they could rake in by selling off all that real estate!Let's hope that someone puts a stop to this madness before it goes too far!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4779d

Although I have lived in Ealing for over 30 years, my home town is Leicester a city with a similar population to Ealing borough. They support three major hospitals. At 75 it worries me that I would have to travel miles if I needed emergency treatment.

Keith Mason ● 4779d

Agreed.Thing is, I don't really understand why, as I don't see voters of any political persuasion being opposed to the idea of preventing health tourism.

Tony Colliver ● 4782d

In our own private sector, before any treatment, consultation etc can begin insurance funds have  to be checked and guaranteed ..... so why is it that a similar system can't be used for the NHS ? If a patient cannot show proof of making NI contributions they should not receive treatment. If that was in place we would see a sharp drop I'm immigration..... Come on Mr. Cameron give it a try !!!!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 4782d

No government has the guts to do anything about massive abuse of our resources, whether it is the NHS or Benefits.No wonder we are in the current financial situation, the money had to run out sometime.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4782d

Chris Skidmore MP has raised the following issue.We really are eing taken for mugs.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9892077/UK-taxpayers-paying-hundreds-of-thousands-of-pounds-a-year-for-Polish-women-to-return-to-home-country-and-give-birth.html

Nigel Brooks ● 4783d

Not at all surprised that this is closing. Having gone to the Ealing Hosp A&E following a road accident, I had to leave... or wait all night..this was because the waiting area was full to the brim of people ( not one white person) who seem to be at a social club..... laughing, chatting, kids running around, drinking etc. it didn't look like there were very many 'patients' who had an ’emergency' status. It was clear that many should not be there taking up precious time from genuine urgent cases. I'm sure the staff would agree. No wonder the NHS is in such dire straits.....good riddance I say !!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 4783d

No idea Tony, but it is a sad day for democracy when the will of the people is totally ignored. This seems to be happening more and more unfortunately not only in the NHS but by our leaders of whicever party is in oiwer.I wonder what exactly is happening to our NHS when whistleblowers who spoke out regarding the appalling care of elderly patients are simply dismissed from their jobs!One chap, Gary Walker, who was sacked as chief executive of United Lincolnshire Hospitala NHS Trust, claimed this month that he was handed a £500.000 pay-off but was prevented from airing his concerns about patient safety!Nearly 600 more doctors, nurses and managers have been paid a total of £15 million in 'special severance payments' during the past three years, the latest figures reveal.This is supposed to be 'The caring profession' but the trouble is those at the top of the tree just don't seem to care about the patients. Unless something is done to save our NHS the situation will surely get worse.The closures of our local hospitals is just the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4783d

Yes but, regardless of one's view either way on this issue, how are you going to stop them consuming the resources anyway?

Tony Colliver ● 4783d

When receiving out-patient treatment at Hammersmith a few years ago I was asked to fill in a form stating that I had right of residence in the UK (though the nurse did say that it was not really for 'people like me'). Hospitals seem to go through the motions of finding out who is entitled to free treatment, but then do nothing with the information.

Susan Kelly ● 4783d

Your proposals seem quite fair Nigel especially the one about "put in before you take out". I agree generally with your feelings - we should earn our benefits and regard them as a privilege not a right.

Gerry Tan ● 4783d

The sad fact is that to many people on benefits is a sort of  lifestyle, they know nothing else. Second and third generations where no-one in the home has ever had a job.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4783d

"Am I being too harsh".There are people in genuine need of benefits and people in genuine need of social housing.Stopping all benefits is not the answer. There are however a number of easy fixes.No qualification for Child Benefit for more than two children, give twelve months notice of the introduction of this with existing claimants unaffected. Result: no more permanently pregnant claimants with multiple kids by multiple fathers.A strict cap on all Housing Benefits. If you can't afford to live in an expensive area, don't expect others to pick up the tab.An overarching requirement to have 'put in before you take out'. If you have not contributed then you get nothing - GENUINE asylum seekers will be given basic housing and food vouchers - nothing more. If an asylum seeker has passed through another 'safe' country on their way to the UK they are returned, without appeal, to that country.A one-time 'blitz' on overstayers. Follow the Australian model. 48 hours notice to quit, no appeal and a permanent marker on travel documents with a minimum three year ban on applying for re-entry.The list goes on and on but I doubt we will ever have a government brave enough to fight the PC brigade that have destroyed the welfare state.

Nigel Brooks ● 4783d

You can't blame the foreigners for trying their luck. This country wants to give benefits and free health care to every dick and harry, then so be it. Then the government starts crying and saying they have a deficit and so have to make cuts and that means raising income taxes and council taxes and closing down schools and hospitals. If I was prime minister, the first thing I would do is stop all benefits and free council houses. Am I being too harsh

Asha Smith ● 4783d

A friend who recently retired worked in a High Dependency Unit in a large London Hospital, it was a daily event to see people arrive from overseas who made their way directly to the hospital demanding treatment.No-one was turned away as far as she is aware. They had the best of care in the HDU and in most cases payment was never received, despite an attempt to chase the patient after they had long gone.Apparently there is only 1 London Hospital who actually check the credentials before admitting everyone for treatment.The NHS surely cannot be expected to treat the entire world when people arrive on these shores? It is not actually the International Health Service but it does see like it!This country is a soft touch for absolutely everything but you can't blame people for taking advantage of our generousity!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4783d

Asha,The treatment is not free.It is paid for by taxpayers.

Keith Iddon ● 4783d

The good thing about Britain is that we are the only country who will look after everyone in the whole world. Any sick or dying person will get free treatment in hospital because doctors care about lives and then what happens is that the person does a runner back to their country without paying. If on the other hand, you were involved in an accident in India or abroad, they would just let you die or refuse to treat you unless you have the dosh. I know this is true because I have heard lots of similar stories from people who have been injured in India.

Asha Smith ● 4783d

Can they pay?If they turn up in "critical and dire need of treatment" I would at least check if they have insurance (EHIS as example) or the means of payment.If they have simply turfed-up on these shores as a 'health tourist' demanding treatment from the NHS simply because they can; then tough. The door was the thing you came in through, use it on the way out.THE NHS IS NOT A CHARITY!!

Nigel Brooks ● 4784d

But surely Nigel, if an overseas person(not from the EU but from another country) turns up at a UK hospital in critical and dire need of treatment, are you suggesting they should be turned away without treatment? That's a rather inhuman way to go don't you think?

Gerry Tan ● 4784d

Hospitals simply need to enforce the rules with regards to treatment of 'non-residents'. The EHIC gives EU citizens the right to free basic healthcare but only if you are actually carrying the card. It's a good reciprocal arrangement that protects UK citizens within the EU.Outside this there is no right to free healthcare and we should simply enforce this and persue the debtors rigourously.

Nigel Brooks ● 4784d

The problem with this country and the reasons why hospitals are in debt is because thousands come from abroad just to get free treatment and women come to the UK just to give birth etc. I dont understand how they can get free treatment but it seems that hospitals dont check to see who is entitled or not whereas if you go abroad, they will demand money up front if you need to go to hospital or they want to see insurance documents. I think the way this country is going, it will soon be like America where everyone will need to take out private health insurance. I suggest everyone takes good care of their health and eat sensibly because no guarantee of an ambulance coming any more.

Asha Smith ● 4784d

Re: There are lots of people who are not on the census or registrar because they are illegal ( I estimate 100,000 people) who will also need healthcare.If they are illegal, why the hell should they expect free healthcare anyway?

Gail Clark ● 4784d

Was it really only 1979? That surprises me as the hospital building shrieks everything that was worst about 60s architecture. It would never be my first choice of hospital. If you want good clinical care, go to Hammersmith.

Susan Kelly ● 4784d

KInd of puts the Olympic ceremony eulogy into perspective doesn't it?

Keith Iddon ● 4784d

As far back as August 2012, the Unite Union were quoting the NHS NW London Business Case for closure involving the demolition of the ten level Ealing Hospital tower and three level podium wing at a cost of £3 million. There were also estimated receipts of £9.9 million from the sale of land at the Ealing site and £9.6 million from the sale of land at the Clayponds site.The possible timescale quoted in the Business Case is that it will not be till 2015/16 when A&E, Maternity and Paediatrics would finally leave the Ealing site and the new £20 million building would become operational. However there seems to be strong evidence emerging that A&E at Central Middlesex Hospital, for example, will close in June 2013. After the rigged NHS public consultation on hospital A&E closures in NW London, the Ealing public's trust in NHS management, NHS statements and NHS promises has been shattered. The report on the unnecessary deaths at NHS Stafford Hospital follows on from the report on unnecessary deaths of babies at NHS Bristol. Press reports make it abundantly clear that if NHS staff speak out about healthcare failings they are persecuted and sacked. Maybe now we should expect the worst from the NHS and anything better than that will be a bonus.

Eric Alan Leach ● 4784d

Sadly it is not only the Ealing Hospital which is marked down for closure of A&E, and loss of 327 beds. Hammersmith Hospital and Charing Cross Hospitals are also being downgraded. In the case of Charing Cross the loss of beds is over 500.The population is rapidly increasing yet the facilities are decreasing. As I said in a similar topic on this forum, sack the overpaid Managers for a start!By the time people realize exactly what is happening to our hospitals it will be TOO LATE to do anything about it! You don't know what you might miss until it is gone.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4784d

So where will the maturnity unit be for the people that now use ealing? Surely they cant expect pregnant women to get two buses to northwick park?

Marie Shelny ● 4784d

Oncology went about a year ago.

Martin C. Harris ● 4784d

As do I Keith.We are now to be reduced to a service inferior to that offerd by the King Edward's Memorial, Hanwell Cottage and Acton Passmore Edwards hospitals that it replaced.

Nigel Brooks ● 4784d

I remember the hospital opening in 1979 and how proud of the new hospital everyone was blah blah ....very short shelf life for that amount of investment.

Keith Iddon ● 4784d

If you look at the hospital website it's FAR FAR more than the A&E and it hints at a new smaller hospital. Wrads are already destined for closure the maternity unit is going, speacialist unots (stroke care) hav already gone. A new local (for which read polyclinic) hospital is quite likely.

Nigel Brooks ● 4784d

Surely it's only A&E that's closing, not the hospital itself.

Susan Kelly ● 4785d

It is a nonsense especially as the Maternity Unit (due to close obviously) has recently been given £301,000 for a revamp (see the hospital website).

Nigel Brooks ● 4785d