Forum Topic

Traffic lights Uxbridge Road and Northfields Ave

As many of you will know, these lights were replaced (reconfigured?) a little while back -- at some inconvenience to motorists and no doubt at substantial cost.So who was the Brain of Britain traffic engineer who thought that the intersection needed just one light facing south down Northfields Avenue? Worse, this light is level with the bonnets of the cars at the front of the queue travelling north and the placing is such that it is often very difficult to see. Absolutely bonkers -- and worse, dangerous.

Ian D. Richardson ● 4866d29 Comments

They are designed to twist in high winds or off clipped by a large vehicle.This is to prevent the whole thing falling down and causing injury and very expensive repairs and probable system failure .The trouble is this design is on the premise that the fittings and fixtures are regularly checked and corrected.And this is where the house of cards falls down as with so many projects, nobody thinks of how to clean it or maintain it and budget accordingly.

Michael Brandt ● 4833d

The problem was -- and is now once again -- that there is just one traffic light facing south along Northfields Avenue. This happens to be in line with the vehicle at the front of the queue heading north and is therefore often obscured. It is, quite frankly, a ridiculous and dangerous set-up.

Ian D. Richardson ● 4834d

I drive through this junction every week on my way to the Chilterns and back and cannot understand why anyone has a problem with it.

Susan Kelly ● 4834d

Rarely,  but on this occassion this is what I believe is happening.I suspect that the fix for the original wind-induced misalignment was to simply twist the unit back into position again with no attention to torquing up the fixings to prevent the same thing happening again the next time the wind got up a bit.

Tony Colliver ● 4834d

Really?! Since when have traffic lights been so loosely anchored that they swing out of alignment when there's a stiff wind?

Ian D. Richardson ● 4835d

Nope - it was the wind again.(The metal lid of my dustbin was blown off for the first time ever in the recent high wind so it has not been a light zephyr. :-) )

Tony Colliver ● 4835d

Would you believe it! This morning the lights were back to what they were weeks ago for vehicles flowing north across the Uxbridge Road from Northfields. Just one light showing and this can't be seen easily if you are at the front of the queue. Someone has turned the other light to face west. Has this been done by vandals or by some traffic engineer who is incredibly stupid?

Ian D. Richardson ● 4835d

Hi PhilipHere's teh text of the preceding email: "This matter has been raised previously. The signal has been taken away because the judgement from our Highways team is that motorists in this right turn situation should be watching the traffic in front of them and not the signal head. They are of the view that this measure has improved safety at the site because people are not solely relying on the traffic signal in order to turn right. I can appreciate Mr Carn’s frustration but this setup is a standard used across many new junction setups across London. Having said that, we are planning a full review of the junction early next year, as it standard on our Corridors and Neighbourhoods schemes. This will review junction performance, accident stats, ped stats, journey times etc. so there remains the possibility of further tweaks to the junction being made."

Ann Tierney ● 4863d

Hi TonySorry - here's what the guy said in a previous email: "This matter has been raised previously. The signal has been taken away because the judgement from our Highways team is that motorists in this right turn situation should be watching the traffic in front of them and not the signal head. They are of the view that this measure has improved safety at the site because people are not solely relying on the traffic signal in order to turn right. This setup is a standard used across many new junction setups across London. Having said that, we are planning a full review of the junction early next year, as it standard on our Corridors and Neighbourhoods schemes. This will review junction performance, accident stats, ped stats, journey times etc. so there remains the possibility of further tweaks to the junction being made."So fingers crossed they will eventually concede this one.

Ann Tierney ● 4863d

"...there isn't enough "green" time to do it diagonally..."I always thought this idea was a bit fanciful.The junction is far too taunting for such an attempt in my mind.Such a notion might suit young types with a decided spring in their step (and even then they would be taking their life in their hands) but it's far too risky for doddery old me.Better to cross in two goes with a wait in between.

Tony Colliver ● 4863d

They have just put a countdown time near my city office. Which has a really dangerous crossing as the traffic jams but cyclists and motor bikes still use a free lane blind to pedestrians.In 2 weeks it has made a difference.The green man still appears but the countdown only commences after the normal green man time expires. So it's the time lapse between then and the red man illuminating. It's ample time.The only problem is one tends to look at the counter and forget to keep an eye out for the cyclists who continually jump the signals here.If that could be addressed it would make a big difference and might work at the Lido where cyclists are not such a problem

Michael Brandt ● 4863d

I've seen a few diagonal crossings - Oxford Circus being the most obvious. given the distance walked is longer than an individual arm it naturally does require a longer red phase for traffic, and i think as it's taken 20 years or more to get this far we are probably stuck with this.I am not fond of the count down timers, if the light is sold green a pedestrian can cross and shouldn't feel pressured.

David Eales ● 4863d

I regularly try to cross this junction on foot. I thought the idea was that pedestrians could cross diagonally on a pedestrian green light. However if you do want to cross south-north and then west-east, there isn't enough "green" time to do it diagonally, so it is necessary to do each crossing individually. This takes a long time, so the inclination is to cross diagonally and risk getting caught in the middle. I realise it is a difficult compromise given the amount of traffic using the roads. Also I thought these days pedestrian count-down indicators were the way of letting pedestrians know how long they would have to wait, rather than dodge the traffic? It seems ridiculous to me that these weren't installed.

Paul Brooks ● 4863d

I have just come through that junction and this time I see that there is now a second light visible to those cars travelling north from Northfields Avenue into Argyle Road. It must have been turned the wrong way before.An improvement, but still not the way traffic lights are normally set up.

Ian D. Richardson ● 4865d

Thanks for raising it Ann - but what a load of old tosh, from someone who clearly is not familiar with this junction. There is a right turn lane at the top of Northfields Ave, which IIRC is used by some bus routes. For those heading straight on it is not often possible to tell if you have space to circumnavigate the bus/van/car waiting to do a right turn, meaning that on almost every change of the lights there is a car or two stuck beyond the stop line. I totally disagree with the pretence that once the stop line has been crossed the driver is committed to the manoeuvre. Are they seriously suggesting that drivers should wait behind the stop line until their exit from the junction is clear? If so the stop line is in the wrong place. And what are the previously described reasons they refer to?

Philip Slater ● 4865d

"...for reasons previously described..."Any idea what these previous reasons were please?

Tony Colliver ● 4865d

We raised this with a councillor who got the following reply from someone at Ealing Council:"Dear Councillor Taylor, It was TfL’s decision to remove the signal head opposite when approaching from Northfield Avenue for reasons previously described as they did the signals design. Every approach at any signalised junction needs at least two visible aspects (traffic signal heads). The two are catered for on the Northfield Ave approach with the one 2.5m from the stop line and the other on the splitter island.  Once the stop line has been crossed, the driver is committing to the manoeuvre and should complete the turn when safe to do so.  No driver should be waiting over the stop line. I hope this helps clarify."It didn't, really!

Ann Tierney ● 4865d

I should add that they could have added a couple of zebra crossings, but away from the immediate X-junctions to prevent hasty drivers reluctant from stopping.

Robert Paton ● 4866d

These lights have been one of the biggest disasters to embrace West Ealing. The traffic that is cause on the Uxbridge road (backing to Hanwell) is nothing short of a shambles.Why they couldn't have added a Zebra crossing further down from the cross junction is beyond me. Just stand there and see how many people actually cross at the lights - its a very small amount.

Robert Paton ● 4866d

I agree - it is difficult to see quite what was worth doing with the Lido junction given the severe constraints imposed by the immediate local geography anyway.Apart from the much longed for "all red" crossing for pedestrians, but then I don't quite understand why that was not possible with a simple reprogramming of the lights without a single bit of civil engineering being involved at all.  (I do accept however that I could be missing something here.)On the plus side - the council highways department is seeing the stupidity of unnecessary traffic lights and taking them out again in favour of small roundabouts all over the borough.  (The cynic in me says that this has more to do with reducing the budget for traffic light maintenance than the council suddenly gaining a huge dollop of commonsense.)

Tony Colliver ● 4866d

After all the hard and painstaking campaigning, the end result is worse than it was before.It has several blind views of signals from both a motorist and drivers field of view.After months and months of work the remodelled junction of Ealing Road and Brentford High street is also worse tan before being devilish for just about everyone including pedestrians. It has been tinkered with but is still not right with drivers unable to see the left turn signal from Ealing Road and traffic confusing a red and green signal east -west. The screech of tyres is almost as regular as the quarter chimes on the church clock! There have been a few bumps but so far nothing serious, but it was better before it got meddled with  twice in 5 years.Lido seems the same, it's the sighting and positioning of the signals rather than the road layout or phasing.But we have failed to keep up with signal technology and methods and many countries now have far better and safer systems that cater for cyclists, pedestrians and road vehicles.

Michael Brandt ● 4866d

Well I don't think it could be argued that it would be particularly difficult to see if it was correctly aligned.OTOH, I would also not try to argue that it is the most optimum location for a light intended to serve traffic travelling north.Currently, the only purpose it serves is to advise pedestrians contemplating crossing the Uxbridge Road from the south that traffic could appear from down the filter lane to their right at any moment!

Tony Colliver ● 4866d

That's true, but why is there just one light facing south and in a position where it is often difficult to see?

Ian D. Richardson ● 4866d

I seem to recall that it was / is TfL that is responsible for the Uxbridge Road and for the new scheme (but I could be wrong).The light in question was okay for a few days initially, but then we had some stiff winds - which exposed the fact that the bolts had not been tightened sufficiently.

Tony Colliver ● 4866d

So, who was it who employed this work experience engineer? Was it Ealing Borough or someone else? And just as important, who was the organisation/person who signed off the project as completed and satisfactory?

Ian D. Richardson ● 4866d

Try using fixmystreet.org to report the wonky light to TfL. Normally works pretty well for getting things fixed.

Tony Gould ● 4866d

Have to agree it does seem to have been designed by a work experience student. Very dangerous. That single light you mention was recently facing at 45 degrees to the road, with the one on the far side of the junction (controlling west to east traffic on Uxbridge Rd) also pointing at an equally ambiguous angle. Anyone not familiar with that junction would have had a pretty scary time.

Philip Slater ● 4866d

Or maybe that is the one single light which you are referring to, as, come to think of it, I can't think where the other one that you refer to is if it is not also the one that I am referring to as well.(IYSWIM!)Anyway, every time I pull up at those lights I curse myself for not remembering that the skewed light cannot be seen unless one hangs back from the line a little.(I suppose I should complain to the council or something...)

Tony Colliver ● 4866d

There is another, but it has been skewed off so far to the left that it is has been all but invisible from almost the first day the new scheme went live.

Tony Colliver ● 4866d