Forum Topic

A Future that Works March

*Lots of Ealing faces*Rather serious and mature like the Iraq War March not loud and rowdy*Longer than the organizers expected...missed Ed's speech by 1km and we the Ealing, Hammersmith, Cent Mid and Charing X A&E supporters were roughly in the middle of the march. Proud to represent all those who signed the petition and filled in the flawed questionnaire*"Cyclists dismount" sign apparently removed from Downing Street gates.*Surreal sight of 6 police guarding Starbucks. *Police viewed protesters with kindly solidarity: "Us next?"

Arthur Breens ● 4948d14 Comments

Tony C  At the moment we are still allowed to form our own opinions,no doubt you are working on changing that.  Yes wages in China are rising,I'm expecting capitalists in China will think (as you and Thatcher do and did)that we have to correct this anomally,two bowls of rice a day are more than enough for anybody.... anybody who isn't "us",that is.  "What Thatcher did do is to destroy the stranglehold on the nation that was the unions, and for that she deserves the undying gratitude of all."Or from my perspective that would read.  "What Thatcher did do is to destroy the stranglehold on the nation that was the unions, and for that she deserves the undying gratitude of all greedy bastards."    No I'm not a leftie/commie,just an egalitarian,I really don't think anyone is worse than myself,neither do I think anyone better than me. I understand it's a hard concept to grasp,but that's the way I am,you evidently disagree. "Naturally I don't expect any current or ex-union members bent on carving out a privileged position for themselves to agree with this, but then I don't care, because you lost the argument thirty years ago and UK business has been able to breath a sigh of relief ever since."  I don't know why but I'm not at all surprised by any of this coming from yourself.  It's telling that you think  "I" lost the arguement 30 years ago..... let me think a minute,30 years ago... that'll be erm 1982 ish,wasn't the PM then Thatcher,that well known philanthropist?   I am however delighted that UK business (sic) has been able to breath a sigh of relief since 1982,because I was thinking that they were struggling due to the Bankers not lending them any money,I shall rest easy tonight.

Tony Wood ● 4947d

I learned enough about engineering before I was 10 to know how important experience is. My grandfather taught himself mathematics (but did not get any paper qualifications) and became the unofficial technical advisor to Napier engineering where he worked until he started his own light engineering and toolmaking company. My father joined him, and I soon learned how to use the machines. It was obvious how important it is to adjust designs, materials, methods, and tools to get the best results. Use the wrong combination and it may never work. Cutting tools can be re-ground, heat treated, hardened and tempered or case hardened to get the best results with different materials. It is important to choose screw threads to match the materials. A friend who used to work in a foundry could check the exact composition of a steel just from the sparks generated using a hand grinder. We do not have the same apprenticeship schemes, and have lost much of that experience.

Chris Bell ● 4947d

Agreed Tony but I think the facts are that we have had great inventions for a couple of hundred years but as the world advanced and became industrialised they too had many inventions and caught us up and overtook us in terms of numbers of inventions.It ais also relevant what happens to our inventions.Our industrial bosses take too short a view imo opinion and instead of backing some new product and making it,they dismiss it as not being viable as they may not see a return on their money for a couple of years.The Germans and the Japanese don't seem to have this mentality.Britain never recovered either from the affect the Marshal plan had as you so rightly allude to.

Keith Iddon ● 4947d

Granted, those economies recapitalised by the "victors" after the second world war have done very well overall.Nevertheless, retaining or regaining any manufacturing that we can seems to me to be a generally good idea.BTW - I can't agree with you on innovation - british inventors have many stonking world-beating ideas under their belts over the last hundred years (and before).  The rest of your comments are altogether too true however.

Tony Colliver ● 4947d

British industry has been in a terminal decline since 1918,the reasons being many including a lack of investment and innovation,poor management standards and excessive restrictive practises and poor levels of productivity amongst the work force.Despite this we are still the 6th or 7th biggest manufacturer in the world but the companies doing the manufacturing are mostly foriegn owned.

Keith Iddon ● 4947d

Yes, but returning manufacturing (or at least some of it)  back to the UK will help the unemployment figures.Some people are not cut out to be product designers / developers but would make excellent employees in manufacturing businesses (as indeed used to be the case years ago).

Tony Colliver ● 4947d

We have sold our manufacturing equipment and the technologies and skills to use it. It does not matter whether we have the top of the range hardware, software, including financial, or just a hammer, we need to have the expertise to use it properly without making fools of ourselves. It is important during the design and development stages to understand the practical limits and know how to use whatever tools could be made available so as to reduce problems to a minimum.

Chris Bell ● 4947d

Wow,Thank you all for this.My Sunday paper hardly mentioned the march and the BBC News yesterday was thin. Readers here now get both the scoop and the Editorial so thank you Ben. My other recollection from the march was the fear of privatized services. For many of these professionals the clients (us) and the service comes first and the salary follows. I'm not just talking midwives here. The fear of many marchers was that as the funding falls away some private G4S operation rolls in full of promises to deliver a lean and mean service and has shortly afterwards to be rescued by the army(taxpayer). Is there other evidence of this?

Arthur Breens ● 4947d

Thatcher didn't destroy UK manufacturing - China did.Thankfully, as wages start to rise in China, it is beginning to return to the UK again.What Thatcher did do is to destroy the stranglehold on the nation that was the unions, and for that she deserves the undying gratitude of all.(Naturally I don't expect any current or ex-union members bent on carving out a privileged position for themselves to agree with this, but then I don't care, because you lost the argument thirty years ago and UK business has been able to breath a sigh of relief ever since.)

Tony Colliver ● 4947d

"What would their view be if a Coalition government reintroduce this still relevant message?" A wry smile I should think,it was after all the Thatcher government (aided and abetted latterly by Blair & Co)that totally destroyed our manufacturing infrastructure. Banking (paper shifting) was the way forward we were told,how right she was.  On the bright side,I guess we're only three quarters down the road to ruin,it's far too late to get back to exporting anything, other than (Indian owned) Land Rovers to China.  Export or die indeed!

Tony Wood ● 4947d

Starbucks was targeted because of the UK Alliance against Cuts. Starbucks dont pay their due. Hence the fight back.Don't forget to mention the closing ceremony when the Disabled People Against Cuts (DPAC) brought Park Lane and central London to a standstill for over two hours.I was unintentionally there when it happened. Lights went red at Park Lane / Marlbe Arch and twenty odd wheelchairs went for it padlocking themselves together using bike locks. It was terrific. I was proud to have been there lending them my support.One cabbie said to me "Don't you think I have a living to make? Why can't you get everyone to protest in the park and let everyone else get on with their lives?"He didnt know what to say when I asked him about the time(s)when the cabbies protest by going round and round Parliament Square gridlocking SW1. Oh well, typical NIMBYism

Ben Owen ● 4947d

I wonder if any of these marchers recall the slogan 'Export or Die' and the Min.of Information film? This was under a Labour socialist government in 1946.What would their view be if a Coalition govenment reintroduce this still relevant message?

Martin C. Harris ● 4947d

We are in a global market, so people who say they want a job must be prepared to compete in that global market with something that is actually good, wanted, and affordable. There appear to be plenty of jobs available in the UK with conditions acceptable to people from across the world, and our best products are still valued highly elsewhere. Products we have difficulty selling are of poorer quality and/or over expensive. It is important for designers and developers to have both sufficient education and practical experience using modern tools. Previous restrictive practices and strikes have cost jobs.

Chris Bell ● 4947d

Can you explain why the marchers booed Ed Miliband when he said that the debts had to be paid. Do they not agree? Who do they think is going to pay them?

Susan Kelly ● 4947d