Forum Topic

Scotland to charge for plastic carrier bags?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18563395First Ireland, then Wales and there are many other countries too, some of which have banned the sale of them.Have you managed to reduce your use of these or kicked the habit, said 'No thank you I've got a bag'?  Is there a drawer or cupboard in your home which when opened they tumble out of?  There'll always be some that appear even if you do try and keep them out of your home - so you're bound to be able to find one if you really need it.

Philippa Bond ● 5030d25 Comments

It is the packaging companies who certainly were at the top of the Rich List.We have been paying to dispose of an increasing amount of packaging because there was no limit at all on the amount or type used. Only because the public started to say 'no' we didn't ask for it/don't want it have companies including the supermarkets started to re-look at their packaging and modify it (and there have been some great changes).I liked the Tesco idea (not widespread enough and not publicised enough) of asking their customers to leave their unwanted packaging at the till but it is not enough and will be considered by many as 'greenwash'. In Germany you can do this anyway.  It would be better to not have that unnecessary packaging though and so not have to have extra carrier bags to take it away if you've forgotten them/can't be bothered. Why should we have to pay to dispose of it/recycle it?  Why should we have the bother?Less in = Less out.I think there are better things to spend Council Tax money on - I'd prefer mine to go on some of the services that are being cut for those that are less able - and I think it would be better to have the choice of being able to buy our food without having to pay for carrier bags 'factored in'.The supermarkets have their own league tables and there is a lot of oneupmanship going on. They are forever trying to win customers off each other. Check out the Corporate Responsibility sections of their websites for some marketing spin.There is a lot of lobbying going on the world of plastics - just as there is in politics.  There is a lot of money and power involved. Consequently there is a gentleman's agreement to reduce the amount and every so often the politicians stamp their little feet.

Philippa Bond ● 5027d

You have your own bags for life or you re-use your current bags, actually so do I, as do others on this forum. None of the bags that come into my home are simply put into the black bag, if not reused they go in the recycling.A service I pay for.You ask why not buy them, the answer is that I am already paying for them with the price of the food.  It's all factored in and Mr Sainsbury or Mr Tesco ain't going broke.  Mark & Spencer are a long way from hitting the breadline.  Mr Waitrose makes so much wonga they give the staff a bonus.What you seem blinkered to, is that the boys and girls running the show have worked out how to do yet more penny pinching from us.  Someone has worked out that if they tell us the world will end unless we do X,Y and Z, we will follow and open up our purses without question to give to the cause.Reminds me of religion in some ways.  You say giving them out free encourages us to eat more, I buy what I need when I need it, easy in a place like Ealing.I'm also not overwieght, are you?So it isn't me or you who is contributing to this and the next "crisis" (which will soon be uncovered) and we all managed to change our behaviour without having to pay a surcharge on our shopping.MP's are known for telling the truth aren't they?  MP's are known for caring about what happens on their patch, they are responsible individuals who, 24/7, think about the people who voted them in, they NEVER have any second jobs, they NEVER have any sidelines or distractions and NEVER abuse the system or the population for personal gain

Amy Brookes ● 5028d

Giving them out 'free' just encourages us to take more, buy more. eat more, and waste more with little or no consideration of the consequences of our excess.Reduce Reuse Recycle is the old mantra. Recycling is an end of use process only just better than landfill.  We need to reduce our waste. Prices usually don't go down but a reduction in overheads would mean that they were less likely to go up.If you need them - why not buy them?  Why should the rest of us who can go without and the environment pay?Be bothered!

Philippa Bond ● 5028d

Can't speak for Lidl. Never go there. I'm not 'feeding snouts' as I take my own bags for life so don't pay, which is, you see, the point of the exercise -- not to charge people for bags but to get them to bring their own.

Susan Kelly ● 5028d

"The only supermarket in England that charge for bags is M&S and they certainly give the money to charity."M & S a supermarket?  From my own knowledge of M & S, they won't be losing on the deal, admin costs will be covered.What about Lidl?  Now they are a supermarket, charge for bags and they're in England.Do they give the money to charity or is it into the till like at Grahams shop?No mention of charity on their website, there is a mention of "helping the environment".Great to see Dave C focusing on the important issues even back then, looming financial meltdown in the EU?  What meltdown? I know, if you issue more free pastic bags, you'll answer to me.  He doesn't seem to be so heavy handed with those who have caused the problems we are now facing.We pay for our rubbish to be taken away, we pay for a recycling service.  We pay, indirectly, for the plastic bags we currently use.Charging extra for them at source is just a way to increase revenue.You point out some very well known "tricks" supermarkets use to get us to part with our cash, but when it comes under the umbrella of recycling you seem unable to see that we are being manipulated into thinking we are doing the "right thing", but really we are just feeding the snouts and you don't question it. 

Amy Brookes ● 5028d

I seem to remember this documentary on R4 about plastic pollution being particularly disturbing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00v1qtn

M. Duley ● 5029d

and this was written in 2008:http://myzerowaste.com/articles/general/reduce-plastic-11-tips/

Philippa Bond ● 5029d

The only supermarket in England that charge for bags is M&S and they certainly give the money to charity. Can't speak for Wales. Never go there.

Susan Kelly ● 5029d

The supermarkets have an agreement with the Government called the Courtauld Commitment.  The idea is that rather than legislation against the issue of these bags they will reduce the number that they give out.  However this is David Cameron last year:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/sep/29/cameron-law-plastic-bag-useand before that in 2006 we had Ben Bradshaw the Minister for the Environment telling us to leave packaging at the tillhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/nov/14/supermarkets.ethicallivingIn 2009 Tesco had this initiative:http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/apr/01/tesco-packaging-waste-trialSupermarkets use carrier bags as advertising. There is a very good essay called The Perils of Plastic Amnesia which details how the supermarkets started by giving away an extra bag (extra to our basket that we always used to take shopping) then more and more. Now they deliver lorryloads of food to homes.  The more we buy the more we pay, the more we eat, the fatter we get and the fatter we get the more we want to eat.When quizzed on why they couldn't all agree to stop giving free carrier bags the answe was if we all decided that would be considered as having a cartel.  There is tremendous rivalry amongst the supermarkets.They do not have to sell items at cost they often sell items as loss leaders in order to get shoppers into their stores eg alcohol and milk.  They place the basics in different areas of the store so that you have to pass more tempting items as you go from one to the other.Never go shopping on an empty stomach you will buy totally different things from thos that you buy when you have just eaten. Perhaps it would be better if all packaging was taxed. Then they'd think more about whether we actually need it.

Philippa Bond ● 5029d

Into the till and we were still making a loss on it.

Graham Weeks ● 5029d

Have now actually read the link given in the original post, some quotes:"cutting litter and protecting the environment."'Good causes'"Somebody will be making good money out of this, because the production cost of a plastic bag won't be anything like 5p.

Amy Brookes ● 5029d

Did you put that 5p into the charity box or was it straight into the till?

Amy Brookes ● 5029d

All of them?  Every single one?So what you're telling me is that if I was to go into Spar in Barry Island, buy some items and then be forced, by law, to pay for a bag, that money is going to a charity?When the tree hugging brigade have put out enough scare stories of seagulls eating plastic bags for lunch, this scam becomes law in England, every single bag sold in Cudi will go to a charity?Why do I think this isn't the case?

Amy Brookes ● 5029d

My 5p charge was less than the cost of the bag.

Graham Weeks ● 5029d

Amy, supermarkets that charge for carrier bags give the money to charity so it's not about 'more profit for the company'.

Susan Kelly ● 5029d

I had a great time doing some clothes shopping last weekend. On paying they wanted to put my neatly folded clothes into one of their designer carrier bags, but instead I gave that the slip by producing my own carrier bags. They thought I was a bit of a freak going shopping taking along my own carrier bags. But who cares? Needless to say, they got carried home in the pannier on my bike!

Ben Owen ● 5030d

Thanks Graham, that is very nearly my point, nothing to do with the planet, more profit for the company therefore more income for the Gov and yet more swill in the trough.

Amy Brookes ● 5030d

Waitrose in West Ealing used to have a pile of cardboard boxes beyond the tills. Haven't been in recently so don't know if they still do.

Susan Kelly ● 5030d

I did not charge for bags to save the planet but to save my company the cost of donating bags to people who did not need them.

Graham Weeks ● 5030d

I can see both sides. I agree somewhat with the point about charging customers for branded bags. I refuse to wear clothing with logos or branding on them. After paying too much for a branded product made cheaply in sweatshops, I won't then advertise the brand as well.But supermarkets used to charge for their carrier bags, I remember them doing so. And they were branded then, too. I don't know which chain it was that started the trend of giving away tons of impractically thin plastic bags, but it soon became a point of competition between the major supermarkets, and now some of the shopping public seems to think this wasteful practise is some kind of consumer right.Along with remembering when stores charged for carrier bags, I also remember when they gave away empty cardboard boxes to shoppers. I wish they still did that.

M. Duley ● 5030d

Thank you Os, about time someone else started to question the mumbo jumbo that comes under the "save the planet" umbrella.If the Gov cared that much, why don't they pass a law that requires shops to issue, every time, free of charge, a fair trade, made with natural products bag?Because it will cost and they won't be able to take a piece of the pie.

Amy Brookes ● 5030d

I wholeheartedly agree with Amy.  We collect enough plastic with Junk mail,  advertising  their goods and location.They can well afford to sell their customer a Cloth bag for that price. It can be used and folded tight into ones pocket when required .

Os A Whittle ● 5030d

Most bags that come in get reused or recycled one way or another.But making a charge for a bag plastered with a company logo is wrong.  They should pay us for advertising the shop.Would a reduction of 5p be made if the customer had a bag?This is just another way to squeeze some extra cash off the customer.

Amy Brookes ● 5030d

Our family reuses all sizes of plastic bags. When I managed a pharmacy I restricted free carriers to those needing them for bulky prescriptions. Those wanting them for small items never complained at a 5p charge.

Graham Weeks ● 5030d

I've used 'bags for life' for the last few years. I admit tough to haveing a small 'stash' of plastice bags for 'emergencies' (e.g. fox 'visiting cards').

Nigel Brooks ● 5030d