Forum Topic

Does any one have support for the Striking Busdrivers.?

I can Understand why they are so disappointed that they were not included in Extra Olympic Payments, when the Tube Drivers were given an increase . However, a bus is built to carry a certain number of passengers and no more. It is not understood how that makes it any harder to drive the Bus.They make a set number of Journeys to finish the days work. If they are late their Journey is cut short. I agree that if the need to make extra jouneys and finish their shift later then Overtime payment is in order.The only card they play is that the Tube Drivers point the way ahead. What about the Thousands of Volunteers called out to assist. It's Olympic Madness. Time to have a rethink.The Doctors are at it now, or some of them are. It appears to be a demand that is not well thought through.

Os A Whittle ● 5063d40 Comments

You forgot the rape and  pillage George.

Keith Iddon ● 5050d

Isn't that called "state intervention" something the Conservatives frown upon? You know, spending billions of public money to create an event that then generates billions for private companies who profit from it? Or is it just "nepotism" when all the Olympic lucre goes to "selected" companies and organisations who have access to the controlled and logo-copyrighted Olympoic market?

Jon F. Doctor ● 5050d

Re  Should I get more money because I live in London and            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx no, t'is round the other way if memory serves me correctly. Did we ratepayers in London not have our rates INCREASED because of the Olympics, for the benefit they will bring us?.

Tony Price ● 5050d

Vikings and Norsemen. Nasty uncivilised bunch of overstayers that lot was with all that killing.

George Knox ● 5050d

Re  You are very literal Tony if I may say so               xxxxxxxxxxxxxx    yes Keith, you  could well be right ( for the 2nd time ). I do tend to be a serious person, especially in matters that face us here in the L B of E.

Tony Price ● 5050d

No I have no support for them. For doing a normal job with normal hours... Should I get more money because I live in London and we are having the Olympics here?

Jon F. Doctor ● 5050d

You are very literal Tony if I may say so.You certainly don'y do light-hearted or ironical do you?

Keith Iddon ● 5050d

Re  ,the Norsemen and Vikings?        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    hardly a fair comparison Keith if I may so so. How long ago was that, and what were the circs, were they welcomed by the natives or were they thought of as invaders and treated as such. The country was not over-populated then and they didn't disperse the general population, plus they were of the same basic geneological stock and background. At least you have been a tad more original than most, who always trot out the same old examples as the Jews and the Hugenouts, neither of which are  suitable examples anyway, but that doesn't seem to bother the supporters of mass immigration. Last Sunday, I went by bus to the far reaches of Hayes, hardly saw an English person.

Tony Price ● 5050d

What about my lot,the Norsemen and Vikings?There is more Viking blood coursing through our veins than any other on these islands.You are a bit of a berk Wally imo...

Keith Iddon ● 5050d

If you treat someone less favourably because of his ethnic background then that is direct racial discrimination.You say you don’t support bus drivers. That’s a group of people defined by their job. But you then go on to suggest that ethnic bus drivers should not be greedy – singling them out as a subgroup  of bus drivers by virtue of their ethnicity. You also go on to say that the Anglo Saxon community can just about put up with them. That is marginalising another community of people by virtue of their ethnicity.Just to be clear. If you had said that you did not support bus drivers because a subgroup ate Mars bars and wore silly hats, that would not be racist. You are entitled to express your opinion like anyone else, but you risk the arm of the law if you break it by being racist - as clearly you were IMO.

George Knox ● 5050d

i do not have any support for the bus drivers, most if not all are members of the ethnic community and are here as guests, they should not be so greedy and be greatful that the anglo saxon community can just about put up with them

Walter Coady ● 5050d

Question 1: Over what period? Don't know. Much scope to reduce fares and give bonuses to bus drivers! TfL execs - don't know. Makes bus drivers bonuses seem a little pithy.

Ben Owen ● 5052d

Re  Apologies.Read it too quickly           xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx that's OK. Your posts/perception are usually spot on. As to the newbies getting a cut, seems hardly likely to encourage much enthusiasm, maybe too many applying, but even if so,  the selection process should be able to deal with that. I do not like the screwing into the ground as much as poss of workers trying to survive , while their employers give themselves  large increases and bonuses. Totally immoral I M O and I am sure a fair employer would get more out of employees in the long term than a scrooge type one. And a lesser turn-over, which alone would be a money saver apart from engendering a harmonious work environment.

Tony Price ● 5053d

Apologies.Read it too quickly.The new starters have had a pay cut tho.'

Keith Iddon ● 5053d

Re  think they are earning too much and should be grateful           xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  where did I say that or even infer it, in fact I said it would be unreasonable to deny an increase in view of T F L's supposed profit. As to Southampton, I live there half my time and said how fortunate  in London we are compared to  elsewhere, and not small towns at that. Just goes to show  what one can write gets seen differently.

Tony Price ● 5053d

Why are you mentioning Southampton? What has that got to do with London bus drivers? I assume you think they are earning too much and should be grateful from the tone of your reply.We obviously should agree to disagree.

Keith Iddon ● 5053d

Re  older contracts are on a king's ransom of £11.50.        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    I read your correction after I had made my post but how many hours do the drivers work?. I guess many may do overtime to get near £500 per week. My father  did loads of overtime, especially at week-ends to get a good wage. And I was not  aware bus drivers have had a wage cut due to the "recession", little or no increase maybe, but even that  would be hard to deny them if what we read earlier re T F L making £2 billion. I know buses in London are well used by travellers, compared to Southampton, same Company I believe, where the service is abominable, some main routes stopping at 17.35 in the afternoon! Even when running , do so only every 30 mins, reduced to every hour at weekends, then they wonder why no-one uses them!. The Councillors there are unable to get the Companies to improve. When Council run and owned, every 15 mins and  beyond 11.30 pm. So in that respect, we are very fortunate in London, by comparison. What other provincial towns are like I don't know, but Southampton has a population of 325.000?.

Tony Price ● 5053d

That's why I corrected my post Tony if you care to read it. I know  a supervisor at a bus garage and he told me that the new drivers now start on £9.50 an hour.The chaps on the older contracts are on a king's ransom of £11.50.Many people have had a pay cut since the recession .This is surely not news to you.You can't be serious that this is a good wage in London.Tube drivers are well paid but I wasn't commenting on them.

Keith Iddon ● 5053d

Re  Less than 16k? I certainly don't        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  Keith, I think you will find bus drivers get far more than that. Years ago it was over £400 per week ( advertised as such ) and tube drivers got £35000 a year, so both now could well be much higher. Those figures  could be almost 10 years old?

Tony Price ● 5053d

Oops! Should say 'less than £18k',shouldn't watch telly and post!But my point still stands.

Keith Iddon ● 5053d

As I have previously posted here a bus driver now starts on less than £10 ph.Leaving aside the analogy made regarding Private Soldiers, does anyone think this is a good wage for anyone doing a job like this in London? Less than 16k? I certainly don't.

Keith Iddon ● 5053d

Then even worse.

George Knox ● 5053d

I think this shows how out of touch this particular General appears to be. A new entrant to the British Army starts on a shade under 14k and when he progresses to a level 1 Private he is on 17.5 k approx.There could be add ons,but these are linked to active service/marksmanship training etc.He would be going some to earn 25k.

Keith Iddon ● 5053d

Re  £2 billion in profits according to their latest annual accounts!          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    over what period is that Ben , can't be  one year alone, surely. But if so, much scope to reduce fares?and :- " The top seven executives at TfL will be get their mits on an £80,000 (eighty thousand) bonus each after the Olympic Games"      what for , for goodness sake. Can't be anything to do re the Olympics because as far as I am aware they will do sod all  extra because of, but even if so, part of their job I would have thought. So is this yet another bonus for execs, who love to feather their nests while denying fair treatment to their underlings. Whoever in the Mayor's  office responsible for transport in London, needs to have a look into this.

Tony Price ● 5053d

You have 4 kids and you give 3 of them candy and nothing for the 4th.A recipe for disaster.Once one got a deal then the others have to as well. Ironically it is the bus drivers who will most likely meet visitors to London face to face.Waht about the millions who will have their working day extended by up to 3 hours - 15 hours a week, still be expected to turn up for work on time and work later if necessary all for no extra pay of any sort.

Michael Brandt ● 5053d

Mark,You will have a while to wait before you see bus companies making a loss. The bus operators in London have collectively made over £2 billion in profits according to their latest annual accounts!It is estimated that six million people will be visiting London for the Games. It is perfectly reasonable that transport workers are rewarded for fairly for their efforts, especially when personal fortunes will be made out of the lucrative contracts awarded to the bus operators.The top seven executives at TfL will be get their mits on an £80,000 (eighty thousand) bonus each after the Olympic Games, and yet they have condemned bus drivers for asking for £500 – less than one per cent of their huge bonuses. Bus companies in London have already clawed back bus drivers pay in real terms, since bus operators have given their workers three years of pay freezes, or at best below inflation pay increases. If you really want to protest about bus drivers bonuses then I would urge you to boycott all buses. Instead use a tube (oh can't do that, they're getting a bonus too); use a train (oops, they're getting a bonus so mustn't catch a train); hail a cab (drat - they're all so fed up with the Olympics and the congestion that is going to result from it they're all going on their summer holiday). This leaves you the choice of walking (nothing wrong with that, but allow 2 - 3 hours to get into Central London) cycle (best option - 45 minutes into Central London) or drive (allow 5 hours to get into Central London plus pay a £10 congestion charge for clogging up the road).This is all about rewarding bus workers for their indispensable role in the Olympics. After all, it’s only fair.

Ben Owen ● 5053d

I was listening to some army General who was saying that a new Private gets about £25K per annum. Seems wrong that a man who is prepared to lay down his life gets perhaps half of what is paid to a transport driver.

George Knox ● 5054d

Ben OwenWould you support clawing back bus drivers pay if bus companies make a loss in the future

Mark Stevens ● 5054d

Re  bus and tube drivers should be treated equally.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    quite right, but does anyone know if ALL tube drivers will get the bonus, whether they are on a route which does not get affected by the Olympics. There is a case for bus drivers getting a bonus IF they are likely to have to contend with much increased passenger load, many of whom hopefully will be foreigners and who may well not speak very good english?. If all tube drivers will get a bonus, I am surprised there is no variation depending on the location of the  routes. In areas where the tube lines are sparse,eg south London, the buses would presumably be expected to take the strain. And what about the overline trains in the London area, are they getting bonuses?. And how about a reduction im fares during the time of the Olympics for " regualr " passengers, eg Oyster Card holders because of the extra hassle and inconvenience we will have to put up with.  Another point has occurred to me re the tubes. Are the DRIVERS alone  in line for the bonus or all staff, as I would say those most likely to be affected are the out of office station staff. They are in line for more hassle than anyone, the drivers being cocooned in their cabs?

Tony Price ● 5062d

In a word, no!As driving jobs go, it is relatively well paid and I fail to see what impact the Olympics will have on the workload of drivers on suburban routes. Perhaps they will have to keep the doors open longr to allow more passengers on and off, that's not worth a bonus IMHO.

Nigel Brooks ● 5062d

How then are we to pay all the road Sweepers.? They will have the Job of cleaning up tons more of the debris each day.? How about the Community Police who will have to be on their toes all day and every hour of their shift, as the Regular Police force will be involved 24/7 with Security Matters.? If there is to be a large profit let us all hear about it and then decide afterwards how best it should be used.Until then it is as though we are being threatened by people ready to lead us into a workers conflict.

Os A Whittle ● 5062d

Driving a bus seems to me to require much more skill than driving a tube train and there may well be horrendous jams during the Olympics. I don't support the strike but both bus and tube drivers should be treated equally.

Susan Kelly ● 5062d

I would support a scheme that was fair to everyone and gave compensation to anyone whose lives, journeys or business are disrupted by olympics.

Jim Louten ● 5062d

I am sympathetic and can understand the reasons why the bus drivers feel hard done by, but striking never wins a public vote of confidence.Why am I sympathetic to the strike? Well, put it this way:The bus companies are going to be raking in far more dosh over the Olympics as more people than ever will be using the buses. Many tourists too, paying full cash fares, giving the bus companies a bumper pay-out time. The bus companies will only enjoy the bigger profits by having their staff working a lot harder. The employees deserve to share some of this success.  If they want a profit boost, what is wrong with giving the staff who generate it a dividend? But the bus companies do not want their staff to see anything of the increase in profits, yet it is them who has produced them. From somoene who has no connection to TfL or the operating companies, it does seem wholly unreasonable. On a final note, cycling on my normal journey into Kings Cross today, I expected to see many more cars to be on the road than usual. However, the traffic was far lighter than I have ever known it to be: Shepherd's Bush Green was amazing. No weaving in between gridlocked cars, but instead full cruising speed. That normally only happens at one in the morning. Can we have a bus strike every day of the week? It is brilliant for cyclists!

Ben Owen ● 5063d

How do you calculate the value of an unpaid skivvy, a bus driver, a plane driver, and e.g. a Council Director?It's unfair if less than 50% vote to strike, but then would the employers unfairly take a sledgehammer to working practices?

George Knox ● 5063d

I supported the strike today as with most news I doubt we'll hear full story about what either side fully wants.My brother does work for TFL who are getting the payment and explained that for them to recieve they have to have no sickness, take no leave(during school holidays for those with children) and be available for extra cover on certain dates for 8 weeks before/during and after games.I'm expect a lot of the bus drivers are being told to do similar but without the bonus incentive that other transport workers are receiving.For me I'd be asking for more money than both TFL and buses have been offered to agreed to working the olympics.

D Downey ● 5063d

I shouldn't say but my business had no Problems today Roads quiet and we even managed to cover more ground today then Any other Friday ever

Mark Ryan ● 5063d

I think bus drivers are underpaid and their starting rate is being reduced by about £1.50 per hour.I am not sure there is any less stress involved than being a train driver either.It can't be a pleasant job but again all this giving bonuses for turning up for work during the Olympics is a bit much imo.I do think that bus drivers should earn a lot more tho'.They currently start on considerably less than £400 pw for a 40 hr week.

Keith Iddon ● 5063d

Once the payment had been agreed for the Tube workers, it was logical that others would want it too. The buses will be frustrated & delayed by increased traffic; the Tubes just go round in a circle or in a straight line with no other users, so bus workers are as entitled as those on the Tube.Volunteers on the Olympics are foolish in my opinion. The Olympics is a multi-billion pound business - they should pay everyone they need to run it.

Simon Bell ● 5063d

I am in complete agreement with you. Infact I made the very same point against their strike to my wife whilst discussing the issue yesterday.

Anthony McDonald ● 5063d