Forum Topic

Pavement cyclists

Sorry to resurrect this with a new thread but I can't find the old one.Last week turning left from Boston Road a mother and child, both on cycles, rode across the footpath from one kerb to another directly in front of me. I sounded my horn and as they rode off shouted that she should be 'more damned careful' and 'not ride on the pavement'.This morning, while outside my house talking a an elderly chap from my church, she rode up -on the footpath- and subjected me to a tirade of abuse about sounding my horn. I told her that riding on the footpath was illegal, that I didn't like being abused and interrupted while talking to someone and asked her to simply 'please go away' (exact words).Cue another tirade of abuse.And you wonder why I don't have any time for people who cycle on the pavement!

Nigel Brooks ● 5064d25 Comments

If I saw someone being attacked I would call the police. Then I would intervene.I had a knife pulled on me when I pulled up a motorist who was driving at 70mph in St. Mary Road nearly hitting me and a cyclist and a bus all of which made evasive moves risking accidents. I recognised the car and intercepted it at the youths address. This was before mobile phones and even though the police were called they never showed.Fact is you and I do not know how unhinged the miscreant may be whether they are pedestrian, cyclist or motorist.But it your and my duty to report unlawful activity.The law is to be enforced by enforcement officers.I detest bad driving as much as bad cycling but having done the Ealing cycling course it is good for new or returning cyclists but nothing like as involved as the IAM test which I took and am shortly to become a mentor tutor.I do think that a certificate like the original Cycling Proficiency test is a great thing and should be mandatory for anyone riding solo on a bicycle on a road.It's good enough for 11 year olds to pass but good enough for a lifetime of cycling.The percentage of riders though who have taken it or even bother to learn properly is alarmingly small.Cars are regularly stopped if faulty either by police or more likely by roadside VOSA inspectors.  Motorists are fined.The last time I was stopped on my bike ridden more or less 4 days a week since 1972 was when I was 13 and I had my name and address taken for not having and mudguards on a road going bicycle.This is still a legal requirement but when was that last enforced?AS a motorist I would not tell a cyclist to get off the pavement. But as a pedestrian, If they were being hazardous, yes I would.

Michael Brandt ● 5059d

BenIf there is one thing that annoys me more than law-breaking cyclist who ride on the footpath it is those total bloody idiots who use their 'phone or program their sat-nav while driving. I speak from the bitter experience of the stupid woman who while texting and checking her sat-nav ran into the back of my daughter's parked car causing over £1000 of damage.  I called the police who, as there was no one injured, said they would not do anything. They also seemed annoyed when I pointed out that she was driving without due care (she admitted to studying her sat-nav before she hit the car)and that is what caused the accident. Equally the "one-eyed monsters" who have one working headlight or brakelight really annoy me. It's an offence to operate a vehicle with defective lights, do they pulled over? I see no evidence based on the number that drive down my road every day.Ben, most road users want to happilyy co-exist. I admit to having a 'bee in my bonnet' about illegal footpath cyclists but I am just as annoyed as you by the inconsiderate cretins who drive their poorly maintained, possibly uninsured (no tickets, just crush them) cars while texting.I would love the police to 'blitz' my road for a couple of days if only to pull the phone users, enforce the speed limit and issue tickets for the badly maintained pieces of junk passing as cars, (as well, of course as booking the footpath cyclists and those who ride in dark clothing without lights at night! :-)  ).

Nigel Brooks ● 5059d

Michael,I get the sense that you're blaming me for his attitude, and I should not be unduly worried by being squashed onto his bonnet.  For pollinating insects brave enough to face the wild elements, there are also foxgloves, wild roses and red clovers to visit.Your point about it not being my place to enforce the law, let me ask you this.  If you were to see, say, a man attacking a woman and robbing her of her handbag would you choose not do anything? Would you say to yourself "it is not for me to enforce the law?"To drive safely in traffic you need to use all your senses and be very alert. How alert can one be when distracted by talking on a mobile phone? You are saying I shouldn't tell a driver how to drive, but you are ok for a driver to tell a cyclist not to cycle on the pavement. There are more people killed every year driving and most of these accidents are easily avoidable. Accidents are usually done by drivers take unnecessary risks. It might be overtaking and not having enough room to do so (or overtaking and going past a side junction as a car pulls out); pulling out of a side junction when there is not enough room to do so; reading a newspaper at the wheel (as I saw yesterday in Acton); not having lights on when it's dark (saw two cars on Friday: one in The Mall and the other on the Uxbridge Road near West Ealing); speaking on their phone etc...More pedestrians than cyclists get killed each year too. Cycling is the safest mode of transport. What is more is that the health benefits outweigh the risks. You can’t say the same for drivers, especially those who choose to eat whilst driving.Cyclists are always going to be singled out because we're fewer in number and are deemed to be a public nuisance by selfish car drivers. I wouldn't disagree with you about the number of avoidable fatalities involving cyclists for all of the reasons you've mentioned. This is just one of the reasons why Ealing Council does offer two hours one-to-one Cycle Training for a fiver. I relate it to doing the Institute of Advanced Motoring Test.

Ben Owen ● 5059d

Firstly you should always get the registration number right and report bad driving, especially if the vehicle is marked?It is not for you to enforce the law.Did the Orchards driver drive badly? Did he or she cause you to take evasive action?How many cyclists do you see with headphones on listening to Ipods or often now even using sat navs ? Far too many do it.In a car, drivers have mirrors and do not have to keep balance.On a bicycle you do not have those facilities.To cycle safely in traffic you need to use all your senses and be very alert.How can this be done when so many cannot possibly be aware of what is going on around them.It all comes down to enforcement.  And common sense.The grim and sad reality is that facts have been dropped from the sensationalist headlines affecting cyclist fatalities. Several have involved cyclists riding into danger areas where other cyclists would not. Too many jump lights without looking, too many place themselves too close to large vehicles rendering themselves invisible and too many do not anticipate the overswing of large vehicles.I see it almost every day when out on my bike. Very few use the correct hand signals if at all.A cyclist has to always be aware that they are in the front line be it traffic conditions or weather conditions and cycle accordingly. And the police or road authorities need to do more to ensure that road surfaces are good in cyclists areas and that the highway code and techniques are obeyed.

Michael Brandt ● 5060d

I knew I wouldn't have to wait long before highlighting on this thread the selfishness, rudeness and total lack of observance of law of bloody car drivers that cyclists have to deal with every day of the week.Today, Saturday 23 June, at 16.45 on the westbound carriageway of the junction of Uxbridge Road and Hanger Lane, a young man, in his late 20's I would say, driving in an Orchards of London Estate Agent car (you probably will recognise them because they drive those classic looking green art deco type cars) was driving whilst on his mobile phone. As the lights were red I pulled up alongside him and shouted at him to get off his phone. Why did I want him to get off his phone? Well, last month one very young cyclist in Norbiton got killed because the driver was talking on his phone. The boy was on his way home from school. Imagine if that boy had been your brother, son, nephew, friend etc how would you feel?He ignored me, then smirked at me before giving me the middle finger. Yes, he lifted his middle finger. I screamed even louder at him, but then what happened next was quite incredible. With the lights still red, and me directly in front of him and sideways on shouting at him to get off his phone, he inched his car ever so slightly forward pushing my bike onto the ground and trapping me between my bike and the bonnet. I think the registration was something like JMC JJ05 or close to that. Car flouts the law and mocks being told what he is doing is illegal and then drives in a dangerous manner. What do you think should happen to the driver here? I am guessing this guy came from Orchards of London Ealing Common office. Through their out-of-hours call centre, I have left a message for the manageress to call me back. I don't hold much hope that she will, or even be too bothered about the actions of her member of staff. If she does care, she should know who was in the office around 4.40pm on Saturday afternoon to deal with it.I tried to report this incident to the Police in Ealing, but the PC on duty told me I would have had to wait 90 minutes before he could see me. I will try again later in the week. However, he did tell me that there are CCTV cameras plastered all over the junction.If you know anybody in Orchards of London, then please alert them to this post and persuade the Manageress to call me back. She will have my number as the call centre has passed this on to her. In the meantime, can I please ask all of you not to use their services.

Ben Owen ● 5060d

Ahhh that's helped :)

James Brown ● 5061d

Just to corerct the 2nd lineIt should read I,e taken up with the council about cylist cycling on pavements

John Charles Todd ● 5061d

It is about time the POLICE did there job correctly, instead of "picking and choosing" which law to enforce. where I now live I,ve taken up about cyclist cycling on pavements, who told me to take it up with the police, which I did, and they replied to take it up with the council! I saw my local community policeman who replied that if he told the cyclist to stop cycling on the pavement, they would only get on their bikes behind his back,when I said, then you shoud give them a ticket, he said he would then have to take their name and addressIn the last 4 years, 2 people have been killed and seval injured by cyclist cycling on pavements in Devon, but that seems not to matterSelfish,unsocialble cyclist will always ignore the law if they know they will get away with it Of course there are plenty of law abiding cyclist about who keep to the highway code , but there are over 50% who don't and they are the one's who give the rest a bad name

John Charles Todd ● 5061d

The Times is promoting this iniquitous law making motorists automatically guilty if they injure a cyclist this very morning. They would have to prove their innocence. It's a disgrace and must be resisted at all costs.----------------------But the law as it stands is the other way round (the cyclist is 'assumed guilty'). Equally wrong.And if the cyclist is crossing from pavement to pavement, it would be fairly easy to prove 'fault'

Jeremy Hanson ● 5061d

" little more patience and less aggression - I think. "No, a little common sense from the cyclist in question.It was not I that was impatient but the, to put it bluntly, bloody idiot cyclists (she and her son) who rode out in front of me. Had she been a motorist she could have been charged with driving without due care but, as ever, this one thought that a bicycle made her immune from both the law and common sense.Should you ride out in front of me in the same manner, expect to hear a horn!!!

Nigel Brooks ● 5061d

You are right in that the roads are truly awful in many places for cyclists but motorists take a test and pay road tax and insurance and the road surfaces are just as damaging and hazardous to cars.Good road surfaces particularly on the nearsides of the road ought to be the paramount priority.Cars though, cannot use the pavements instead and it is equally illegal for a cyclist to use the pavements.So whatever the condition of the highway, cyclists have no right to cycle on a pedestrian footway.What is legal is for a cyclist to dismount and scoot at brisk walking pace.Too many cyclists ride into dangerous positions nearside of vehicles - it's a regular occurrence to see cyclists pass a bus on it's nearside. Cyclists and often motor cyclists, will position themselves on the rear corner of a vehicle rendering themselves invisible in mirrors.I have cycled in Ealing for nearly 45 years & on the road from the age of 11 when I passed my cycling proficiency test.  I have driven everything from a motor cycle to a light truck and a bus and have never had any sort of accident.There have been a few near misses and errors on my part, inevitable when driving so much but being alert and knowing what to do to avoid an accident is down to taking on board the training from the IAM. Some nasty moments have occurred on the bike by really poor driving so I won't deny it exists, but if cyclists obeyed the highway code or even took the trouble to read it in the same way as motorists are required to learn and demonstrate, and adopted a defensive mode when cycling as opposed to the all to visible oblivious mode displayed by too many, then it would be a much safer place all round.

Michael Brandt ● 5061d

People would not have to ride on the pavements if:a - The council maintained the roads which are full on pot-holes and bumps,b - If motorists drove with a little more care, courtesy and safety.As someone has already mentioned, those of us who do cycle do not add to the congestion and pollution of our roads and environment.  Although I do not condone the behaviour of the cyclist in question, neither would I have appreciated you sounding your horn.I little more patience and less aggression - I think.

Evelyn O'Flaherty ● 5061d

Always works.Simply 'accidentally' walk into the side of the cyclist on the pavement and knock them off.Preferably with a rucksack on your back and swing into them.They have nothing to go on as they are the ones at fault and if they get hurt, Tough, they should not have been riding on the pedestrian footpath.I and several colleagues at work were blighted by uber cyclists on the pavement and several staff got hit and injured. As usual no-one would enforce the law so  between us we have taken out at least a dozen, by accident.It doesn't happen any more.I would stress that I only apply this to those who use the pavement with no respect or concern for others and not those cyclists who use the pavement slowly carefully and with care for others and not at all for youngsters.I might add that I cycle to work much of the time and am amazed at how little road sense so many cyclists display.

Michael Brandt ● 5061d

I recently complained to Gunnersbury Boys School about some of their pupils who were cycling on the pavement, and came round a corner at high speed, nearly knocking me over. I was then called several names and had abuse thrown at me as they cycled off - still on the pavement of course. I didn't hear anything back, and the pupils are still cycling on the pavement on a quiet residential street...

Nikki Hunt ● 5061d

Might expect this twaddle from the Grauniad but the Times? I wonder how many journalists cycle to work?

Keith Iddon ● 5062d

The Times is promoting this iniquitous law making motorists automatically guilty if they injure a cyclist this very morning. They would have to prove their innocence. It's a disgrace and must be resisted at all costs.

Susan Kelly ● 5062d

Well put Eberharh.

Keith Iddon ● 5062d

Many places were cycling is dangerrous have had blue cycling allowed disks placed on them. Local council has officers dedicated to making place more dangerous by creating cycle routes where they should not be. Make the roads safer for cyclists not the pavements more dangerous for pedestrians - simples!. Remember the pensioner that was killed on a pavement by a cyclist a couple of years ago in Ealing? Our local councillors Bell etc do not.

Eberharh A. Thomson ● 5062d

BenI have absolutely no problem with cyclists and if the surgeons can ever fix my ankles my trusty Claud Butler will emerge from 'hibernation' and be as regularly used as it ever was.I sounded my horn and shouted because she, followeed by her son, rode off the pavement across the road directly in front of my car, I would do the same to any other road user being so careless, bordering on stupid.My area is plagued with cyclists who break the law by cycling on the footpath IT IS ILLEGAL!! not to say damned dangerous for other road users.If my posting here about about my experience provokes debate then good."Thank them. Be nice to them."No problem at all as long as they stay within the law that other road users have to follow.

Nigel Brooks ● 5063d

Cycling on pavements is illegal at any time. Schools should do more to teach children how to cycle on the roads. The police need to do more too. It looks like one of those low level crimes, but some cyclists cycle really quickly on pavements and that can be scary for some, especially elderley people. Ben is right when he points out that cyclists make a positive contribution, but wrong to say there is no good in raising it on this forum. Cyclists will read this and maybe think twice before cycling on the pavement.

Mark Stevens ● 5063d

Nigel,Do you not have any time for cyclists? Or is it just those cyclists who ride on pavements? The woman who shouted at you makes you think that this is normal behaviour for cyclists. Well it's not. Did you really need to sound your horn and shout at her? Or was that an over reaction on something that you could have easily avoided and let go? Could you have been more patient? Had you not shouted and sounded your horn, would she have given you the tirade of abuse?The cyclist who gave you a tirade of abuse was wrong, but what gain do you get from coming on here to tell everyone about it?Overall, cyclists do much to help motorists by speeding up traffic by not using their cars. By having fewer cars on the road, they speed up traffic, making it easier to park and makes the air less polluted. Thank them. Be nice to them.

Ben Owen ● 5063d

God forbid they ever bring in a law making motorists automatically responsible for accidents involving cyclists, regardless of circumstances. Horrendously, this has been threatened in the past and I believe some countries already have it. A bigger attack on personal responsibility was never mooted.

Susan Kelly ● 5063d

My real concern is her lack of concern for the safety of her son. If you are 'out with your mum' you do, until you get the teenage 'hhmpphhs', what she tells you and follow her example.If mum rides off the footway and across a road then you follow. Not smart if there is a car turning.I often stop to let pedestrians cross even if I have right of way, particularly in bad weather. If I was a less careful driver we would have two injured cyclists locally, I don't want that for them or me.

Nigel Brooks ● 5063d

Nigel,I sympathise but people like this sadly walk with us...I can possibly go one better - weekend before last, I was driving down the Ruislip Road (Perivale bound) passing Gurnell Leisure Centre. I was in the left hand lane and on the pavement was a mother on a cycle, with her daughter in the back on a seat. Why I was watching her I do not know, but, she suddenly just left the pavement for the road, and nearly under my wheels (I had a bus on my shoulder trying to pass me at the time). It was horrendous. I know she was with her kid, but I gave her a massive piece of my mind.For her stupidity, I could've been party to one or two persons being seriously injured or even killed and that I do not want, thank you very much.Brgds

Bud Richards ● 5063d

That is extremely impolite behaviour on behalf of the woman and yes she shouldn't have been riding on the pavement.I have to confess that I sometimes ride on the pavement early in the morning when there isn't anyone about as it is sometimes easier than riding on the rode BUT I always get off and walk if there are people around me. The amount of inconsiderate cyclists are climbing as well as common courtesy and manners.

F Stone ● 5064d