Forum Topic

  WhyAre the ranks of the Poor and Deprived increasing

The poor and deprived are well educated today but find themselves in situations that are hard to cope with. Exploited and discontented they remain with little or no access to the law that is largely unaffordable and beyond their reach. The most vulnerable are the Pensioners and particularly the Elderly. I would like to hear from members of our Forum how we have come to have the super rich amassing such Fortunes that they could not spend in several life-times.Is this Capitalism Unfettered?

Os A Whittle ● 5079d93 Comments

Re  foul mouthed person who many indigenous people would be ashamed to have you anywhere near them.              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    oh dear me, what a nasty poster, and so off beam. The latest public poll shows over 93% of the population agree with my views :-      " What should the government be doing about immigration? Nothing, the reforms are starting to take effect  6.96%  (507 votes)     The number of migrants allowed into Britain should be capped further  47.91%  (3,491 votes)     There should be a one-in-one-out immigration policy  45.13%  (3,288 votes)       Total Votes: 7,286Return To Poll "      So we rest our case and nasty rude posters should try to do better?.

Tony Price ● 5064d

Re  I should say that some of the phrases and words in his last post left a stench in the nostrils.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    oh yeah, my comments ,and always have, relate to the effects of MASS immigratation, so while you are telling the members of these forums full details of what the benefits are, I Y O, of course, perhaps you would also give those details to the Leader of the Opposition, Ed. Milliband, who has this very day admitted N L got immigration wrong, ignored what the people of this country felt on the matter,and will adopt a different policy. Why should he a)admit to getting it wrong and ignoring what the population did not want, and b) why say they will adopt a different policy, to which the answer can only be they realise their behaviour on immigration still remains against the wishes of the eligible voters in the population. So G K more or less stands alone as a beacon for mass immigration, ( there are a few others of similar ilk on these forums ) and it is up to him to explain to the Labour Party and the country where we are wrong and he is right.

Tony Price ● 5065d

Re  Ealing Council have this information together with photographs               xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      I don't think many people are deluding themselves, the public are not fools and see what is going on. The problem is when certain persons a) try to hide or deny it,  b) try to shout down or stop those who realise what is going on and voice dissent about it and  c) actually get prosecuted for saying they don't like what is being done to our country. The future looks  very problematical for  the indigenous UK, Londoners in particular, a City which in my opinion is on borrowed time, living on it's past reputation. You can't have the situation where the  majority of the population are from third world countries and the place maintain it's  hitherto state. Can you not remember the photos a few years back in the Gazette of the estate  behind what was Woolworths in which the gardens were piled high with all the rubbish the flat occupants used to throw out their windows!. ( Westminster seems to have the same, so imagine Southwark and Brixton ) We are awash  with persons whose ways are not indigenous ways, and the lowest common denominator will reign. The white flight from London continues apace and therein lies it's demise. When the indigs no longer control the Local Authorities and other bodies, what will the situation be?. Think about it, and head for the hills!

Tony Price ● 5073d

I was listening in to the radio programme on LBC last night 14th June 2012 just after 9PM. I am sure i heard it said,that in 20 years into the future we in the UK will be classed as a 3rd world Country.After the war it was said,we made too many mistakes.I recalled the posts and replies of Pepole in our times like Tony.P,  Marie Anne O'Conell and I omit to mention a few others that are certainly not to be laughed at.Perhaps it is we who are deluding ourselves .I think every post has Value,Much more thatn what we give it Credit for. It is a privelege to read the Postings of so many active and learned folk. Whoops! Sorry I am goijng off on a Tangeant.

Os A Whittle ● 5073d

SMALL extract from an article sent me yesterday :--------------------------------interesting to note the source of that article. SPeaks volumes if someone thought to send it to you

Jeremy Hanson ● 5073d

Re    More facts to follow.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  SMALL extract from an article sent me yesterday :-    " Amid the pomp and ceremony of England’s recent Diamond Jubilee,marking sixty years of the Queen’s reign, a grim truth was beingglossed over: England is gradually capitulating to the law of thejungle.Last month, nine Muslim men were convicted for organized sex crimesranging from rape to sex trafficking over more than two decades ofsexual violence against underage white girls in the north of England.The gang passed the victims around to have sex with several men a day,several times a week in houses, cars, taxis and kebab shops. Onethirteen-year-old was forced to have sex with twenty men in one night.The kicker is that authorities had evidence of it as far back as 1991and could have prevented years of abuse to dozens of young girls. Butcomplaints to the police and social workers were ignored.Why? Former Member of Parliament Ann Cryer declared that theauthorities were “petrified of being called racist and so reverted tothe default of political correctness.” As journalist Melanie Phillipsputs it, in politically correct Britain, no criticism of religious orethnic identities is allowed: “And so the child rape industryproceeded with repeated failures to prosecute.”Who are the British authorities not reluctant to punish? A 42-year-oldwhite secretary who complained, in an expletive-filled rant caught onvideo, about the decaying effects of immigration and multiculturalismon British civilization. For that verbal explosion, which no doubtrepresented a collective sense of her countrymen’s frustration, shereceived 21 weeks in jail. The Islamist enemies within Britain canopenly express their desire to destroy the country and yet still stayon the government dole; but a peaceful white working-class citizen whois fed up with watching her country go down the drain is sentenced tojail. "

Tony Price ● 5073d

Re  Take the trouble to look around you,read official reports and surveys,          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  It is abundantly clear that G K has got rattled, just look at his posts and see how he is obsessed with me, masses of personal abuse ( oft regarded as the last refuge of the scoundrel ). People don't get rattled if they can express themselves logically, eruditely and effectively, which obviously some sycophants on here of mass immigration realise they can't  or pull the wool over the eyes of the population of the UK, 80% of whom the effects of immigration was their main concern, overtaken for the time being by the economy etc. If one analyses what some sycophants have written  eg " why do you hate me if you have never met me?" Gawd 'elp us, whoever said anyone hated that poster. They must be on the Forums just to stir up disharmony. And not one of them has explained what is not immoral re the dispersal of communities ( Southall as a perfect LOCAL example ) by the influx of others. Consevationists won't even allow flora, fauna and land and sea creatures to be uprooted by developers, so why should the most sentient of all be expected to be kicked around and like it. There is something or someone behind these sycophants, hidden agenda,and/or hidden hands with hidden agendas. Otherwise,  their behaviour doesn't make sense. And to try to get me silenced for saying what the great part of the population say is very interesting, disturbing in fact. To quote some of what is felt, I picked the following up yesterday from an article  to which some had made comments :-        stephen4) 4 hours agoI live in central London, (Westminster) We have a social housing flat and we are completly surronded by Afgans, Iraqs, Somalians, Sudan, India, China, Pakistan, Nigeria, and so called other dark looking europeans.10% of my child school is only British white, and they are breeding and breeding.So when the goverment say that know immigrants get social housing, well take it from me they do.It's a sh*t hole, they throw rotten food and sanitry towels, nappies from there balconys, and this is Westminster.Less70 21 Replies (6)Hide repliesReport SpamPrevious repliesWrite a reply...keith powell (listento the law)4 hours agoRoger Asquith.....Think we have lived parallel lives...I too lived for twenty years in PS California....Im there with you all the way.....London is so very very bad now.....LA and SF too are overcrowded with foreigners that LOVE their cities.... foreigners here have just taken the UK for granted and ruined it!!!!!        chollerton 5 hours agocant ever see the attraction with london,i worked there for 7 years and found it a filthy city with hardly any english people living there!!61 13 Replies 15 14 Replies (0)Hide repliesReport SpamPrevious repliesWrite a reply...David Martin (davey m)5 hours agoYeah London's ok I once bumped into an English guy there - that made 2 of us Happy Days       Someone7 hours agoLondon is rubbish. The only decent thing about our capital is its history74 29 Replies (0)Hide replies                xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  More facts to follow.

Tony Price ● 5073d

No need to substantiate,don't just take my word( or that of Mr. Price)  Take the trouble to look around you,read official reports and surveys, read the national press and watch the TV.There's none so blind or deaf as those who don't want to see or hear. It's people like you ( ie do-gooders) who try to defend the curse of mass immigration. The country has had enough so get used to the FACTS...We don't need your kind and at long last the government is working to curb the  flow. There seems little point in trying to get you to see the light so I will leave you in your darkness and waste no more time with further discourse with you on this topic.Hopefully you will get the message one day .......  but somehow I doubt it.

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5073d

Certainly is boring and ineffectual when you cannot and won’t refuse to research the facts. If you really were a teacher then you will know the meaning of sloppy thinking.If you cannot substantiate what you are saying, but simply regale us with your uninformed opinions suggesting that they are facts, then what you say is not the paper it is written on.There’s a difference between facts and truth.Price sneers and among others bullies do that. Nobody really wants to integrate with those types whatever their background.

George Knox ● 5073d

Marie, what is your understanding of integrating?

Jaz Brown ● 5073d

This is ineffectual and boring.Suffice to say that Mr.Price is not a bully but just states the obvious ... If you don't like facing facts that's just too bad..the truth hurts so suck it up and familiarize yourself with the reality of what is happening to this country if you have a modicum of patriotism and loyalty....qualities not upheld by scrounging immigrants who refuse to integrate..think about it ....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5073d

OK Marie what is the hard evidence? And you will have to research that. I've yet to come across an unbiased and balanced newspaper report, whatever politics they support.

George Knox ● 5073d

Sorry, but you are so out of touch....the information in the press as well as official statistics are more factual than your misguided assumptions. Don't you look around your local area ? Just stand outside any school,doctors surgery, hospital outpatient/emergency depts etc ..... It's not rocket science to work out the future of this country and the burden these people have created.Teresa May is at last making efforts to plug some of the gaps...difficult since so many immigrants are from highly corrupt cultures whch is how many of them came here in the first place.No need to itterate so many cases... they are everywhere... WAKE UP..

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5073d

Price rarely backs up his claims with evidence but just bigotry or sweeping statements. IMO Price has an agenda which I don't like. And I am not hurt by Price's continuing failed attempts to bully anyone into thinking along the nasty lines that he does. I have probably worked more hours in my life than you've had hot dinners. And if I were in charge of immigration you would be very surprised as to how it would be set up and secondly made to work.Telling someone to get a life in the context that you posted, tells us more about you. Not very pleasant.

George Knox ● 5073d

however there are millions who come here to exploit the benefits systems------------------------------------No. There aren't. THAT is the realism Marie, not what the Daily Mail would have you believe. I will not deny that there are some, there will always be some people that exploit any system (Tax, for example), but to suggest it is millions is simply incorrect

Jeremy Hanson ● 5073d

Truth hurts... Good thing you aren't in charge of immigration.Mr Price is totally correct in his posts and thank God the government is on the same path at last......the tail is turning. No-one objects to anyone from anywhere coming to improve their quality of life and contribute to our society.. however there are millions who come here to exploit the benefits systems and we object to supporting them through our hard work ..this is REALISM not to be confused with racism which is what you are trying to imply. The facts are there so you should get your head out of wherever you have stuck it and wake up to reality...unless of course you aren't one of those who have worked hard... get with the programme rather than sit on the forum all day...as for me I will be going to work tonight!!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5073d

Free speech has its limitations. I agree that much tighter controls on immigration should introduced and he knows that.

George Knox ● 5073d

No it doesn't.Free speech is for all, not just those one agrees with.Disagreeing with somebody's agenda is also not a justification for preventing a person from posting either.

Tony Colliver ● 5073d

Tripe is what you peddle. You are against mass immigration and then go on to rant on how cultures, customs etc coming into this country are not acceptable to you. So some of the immigrants already here, being sentient beings, will wittingly or unwittingly think that you are hostile to them. And they will recoil or retaliate because they certainly won’t want to integrate with a foul mouthed person who many indigenous people would be ashamed to have you anywhere near them. Perhaps that’ why you have more non indigenous friends than indigenous.Jumping up and down like a jack in the box about fascists. You sound like one to me. Keep jumping.

George Knox ● 5073d

You do make me laugh Marie.

Tony Colliver ● 5073d

Depends on their language. His post contained nastiness and we know his agenda

George Knox ● 5073d

Just stick to the subject in hand unless of course you have run out of any meaningful discussion so have to resort personal condemnation....----------------------------telling people to 'get a life' is not personal condemnation, then? If you are going to throw stones, you have to expect some in reply

Jeremy Hanson ● 5073d

My life is too busy !!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5073d

Nobody is a "victim" of predictive text - only too lazy to read back what has been written and edit where necessary before posting it.

Tony Colliver ● 5073d

Whatever one thinks of another's POV going around and getting them banned is not the way forward.

Tony Colliver ● 5073d

You are soooo sad.ref my standards of English I'm afraid I am a victim of predictive text on occasions. You are in  no position to assess my status.Just stick to the subject in hand unless of course you have run out of any meaningful discussion so have to resort personal condemnation....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5073d

Re I am surprised the Editors allow him to continue posting.            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      here we go, raw nerves have been touched, so remove those who touch them, can't have opposition, especially that which gets close to the truth. Like all undemocratic cum dictatorships, silence the opposition by whatever means, foul or otherwise. Revealing nonetheless.

Tony Price ● 5073d

Re  must truly hate me from their comments              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      not so, I can't understand why you should wish to make such a comment and decline to absorb what I have said so MANY times, it is the effect of MASS immigration  the VAST majority of the UK population find appalling, not individuals, who are accepted for who they are as individuals. I repeat  the number of ethnic friends I have  in London certainly outweigh  those of indigenous origin. I can only assume by your determination, and that of others, you are here to make trouble, sow discontent and stir up disharmony. Otherwise you would accept what  the rest of the country says.

Tony Price ● 5073d

Certainly not an English teacher, judging by her punctuation :-) (probably affected by 'immigrants' :-) )

Nigel Brooks ● 5073d

Re  you are you saying they don’t have morals and only you do?            etc etc        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    what a peach of a post and load of tripe. It is so off the mark and in fact unbelievable that it needs to be confined to the waste bin. Reference  to the association with fascism is a dead giveaway. Thanks.

Tony Price ● 5073d

In times of hardship perhaps we are guilty of looking for someone to blame for the situation in which we find ourselves? When money is tight then it would seem that even governments must tighten the belt and live within their means.Successive governments have rightly been put in the spotlight for seeming to concentrate their attention on newcomers to the detriment of the indigenous population.This is not a new situation - many will remember back in the 60's when signs in windows stated: 'No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs' and I am sure we would not wish to go back to those days.However, until such time as our government is seen to be fairer on ALL members of our society rather than appearing to concentrate on some sections whilst ignoring the rest then I am afraid that their actions will surely only cause more ill-feeling and resentment amongst the population.When some people are trying to count the pennies and try to get by on a daily basis then it is hard for them to see what appears to be huge sums of money available to provide everything including luxury houses to newcomers.It is rather like having 10 children but spoiling just 1 child and ignoring the others!IDS has been trying his best to ensure that the benefits system is completely overhauled but he seems to come against massive opposition whichever way he turns. No-one wants to have their benefits cut or reduced yet some people think that they are entitled to benefits throughout their lives without bothering to seek employment. How can this be right?No idea what the solution is but the sooner one is found the better!

Jean F Fernandez ● 5073d

Not all posts made by Marie make sense - hence my question about her being a teacher...

F Stone ● 5073d

No foundation...if you cannot take constructIve comments don't get involved....bit over dramatic I would say.... You must be easily frightened since bother "frightening" has eve been said....get a life.--------------------I have a rich and fulfilling life, thank you. One not filled with hate and bile.As for the rest of your post, please could you be a little clearer, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense (constructive comment)

Jeremy Hanson ● 5073d

No foundation...if you cannot take constructIve comments don't get involved....bit over dramatic I would say.... You must be easily frightened since bother "frightening" has eve been said....get a life..

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5073d

Thank you George. I find it really disturbing that there are people like Marie and Tony P living in the Ealing area, knowing that they must truly hate me from their comments, when they have never even met me. Frightening-------------------------------------I don't think either of them do anymore.But yes. Frightening

Jeremy Hanson ● 5073d

What really 'tees me off' is how these two hijack threads and turn them for their odious immigration diatribe.Yes, there are immigration 'issues' but they are not the root cause of all of the problems that we face as these two wish to insinuate.One can't avoid the threads, nor should one have to.I like to make, if I can, a helpful contribution, but I now simply choose not to read any posts they make as even the blandest of topics will assume either a racist or immigration-based mantle.

Nigel Brooks ● 5073d

Hardly Marie, as you have quite clearly stated in one of your earlier posts that people should not integrate and should remain isolated. This in my view makes you a Xenophobe.True there are some people who make trouble for everyone but they are in the minority - what is worse to my mind is that there are people like you who heighten the problem with your xenophobic views and comments.

F Stone ● 5074d

Well Jaz, I should say that some of the phrases and words in his last post left a stench in the nostrils.I am surprised the Editors allow him to continue posting.

George Knox ● 5074d

Thank you George. I find it really disturbing that there are people like Marie and Tony P living in the Ealing area, knowing that they must truly hate me from their comments, when they have never even met me. Frightening

Jaz Brown ● 5074d

Typical of your inane inaccurate non statements..you are incorrect  as usual....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5074d

So when a person disagrees with you are you saying they don’t have morals and only you do?One of your many problems is that you have form. And form which has associations with people who have been and continue to be rejected by the great majority – as evidenced in election results. And those undesirable people have associations with fascism and violence. And for obvious reasons the great majority cannot bear to be associated with that. You may start jumping up and down in your usual manner, and may regret what you said. But it’s on the record. And that raises suspicions in sentient beings. So can your view of morality be trusted? No IMO.

George Knox ● 5074d

Re  many instances could afford for themselves      cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccp      correction,  could NOT afford for themselves

Tony Price ● 5074d

Re  many obviously  do not have morals....            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  in my opinion the greatest act of immorality in recent years has been the foisting onto imnocent  members of society the hordes of persons from overseas, of cultures , customs, appearance and virulent religion(s) causing them to uproot themselves and their families away from the places they had grown to love, helped to forge  and sustain and then be told, indeed prosecuted, for speaking out against the injustice and made to pay for the inswoopers' style of living, at a level which they in many instances could afford for themselves. It is against the nature of all sentient living creatures and those who engineer such gross immorality should be held to account as should the sycophants who support them.

Tony Price ● 5074d

As I said earlier, Marie appears to be Xenophobic and by reading some of her posts, not a teacher of English.

F Stone ● 5074d

"I am a conviction politician. Call it "the driving power of social conscience", call it "the better angels of our nature", call it "our moral sense", call it a belief in "civic duty".I joined this party as a teenager because I believed in these values. They guide my work, they are my moral compass. This is who I am."I could be surprised if you agreed with the man who said the above and who was famous for his moral compass. Furthermore he was an arbiter of moral standards.So the question is why should we be swayed by your moral compass which appears to be governed by the survival of the fittest? Would the world be a better place? Did the man above know less about the world than you? Was he wrong to prioritorise helping the vulnerable? Was he wrong to be driven by an appeal to our better nature. It seems to me he was saying that "if something isn't natural it's not right !!".

George Knox ● 5074d

Yes to your questions ... A glance through the daily news will show that many obviously  do not have morals....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5075d

That's right nature sorts everything out, survival of the fittest etc....anyway to answer your question...your conscience and a moral compass...

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5075d

Do you really believe what you have written Marie? Are human beings that different from each, do we not all have morals, feelings, what the best for our children? Do you really believe that God, would want people to think like you do. And were you really a teacher?

Jaz Brown ● 5075d

One law of nature is if a grisly wants you for dinner then you’ve had your chips unless you can escape.Another is that if you are starving along with your family you travel the world until you can find security and sustenance.Anyway I don’t know what you personally mean by the laws of nature. And also you haven’t answered my question.

George Knox ● 5075d

Marie reminds me of the character in Little Britain who vomits at the mere mention of a foreigner.

Penny Crocker ● 5075d

You sound to me as if you are xenophobic, marie.

F Stone ● 5075d

Several ways-  mainly passed down through parents as well as following the laws of nature. Many problems of  today are brought about because of man's interference with nature eg.forcing people of different cultures and religions to live together....not  natural thus creating conflict and disharmony . God  put like types together in various parts of the world where people can  live out their lives with everyone on the same "page" .Man comes along and upsets the mix by forcing them to live in alien environments,climates,cultures,customs behaviors  etc. leading to every kind of cinflict and resentment....if something isn't natural it's not right !!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5076d

You have done well. But the question is:-who is the arbiter of decent moral standards?

George Knox ● 5076d

I can totally identify with Jean and NO I got no help to get where I am today.At age 11yrs of age myself younger brother and handicapped sister lost both parents leaving us orphaned and with no relatives.We had to be put into care and went through the care system with no adverse effects.I got my gces and trained as a teacher,my brother joined the RAF and my sister still  remains in care. Though the time with parents was short we were taught good moral standards and also that the only way to make progress is through work.I have raised two fine sons  who like us have strong work ethics....I still hold a prestigious job even though I am past  retirement age .... so all this with no help or handouts just the will to work and live by decent moral standards..... having no -one to fall back on gave me strength to make it on my own.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5076d

I do wish people would stop believing all that is written in the right wing press. My two English born children both young men now are very hard working and are both in full time work. One training to be a plumber, and yes the local builders, plumbers, carpenters were all under cut when the Eastern Europeans first came over. But now as they (The Eastern European) have brought their families over and realise the price of rents/mortgages, not multi occupied shared rents, their prices are reflecting the cost of living.

Jaz Brown ● 5076d

Re  then so should i get this benefit.        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      whereas the idea of the Welfare State was good, it did not sufficiently take into account human nature, which in all cases is not good. That there are families where in 3 generations  no-one has worked demonstrates that as do many other aspects, voluntary single mums etc. This Govt. is trying to reduce the burden of the welfare bens,which in many cases are not necessary or in the best interests of the country. Other countries are not similarly burdened and are thus able  to out perform and out compete us. What other country for example would  allow persons from abroad come here, and pay for  them to live in places indigenous persons can only dream about. Madness and grossly immoral.

Tony Price ● 5076d

Re  I wonder if this is widespread?          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    I think so, that 900,000 have come here from that country must tell us something, that there is here what they don't have back home, and that is work. I have a very close Polish friend who tells me  harrowing stories of the situation back there. He has invited to take me to Poland several times and one day I may accept . But the effect they have here on indigenous workers is  not good, for obvious reasons. And it is not just Polish immigrants, others from Eastern Europe are here in large numbers. Lots of the hiring " agencies " are of those origins and chose persons of their own culture and origin. Also note how Asians tend to employ other Asians. They should be visited by  the Equalities Commission who when  the Commission for Racial Equality  forced indigenous companies/ employers to employ persons of ethnic origin. That should be made to work both ways!.

Tony Price ● 5076d

KeithThey are cheaper to employ becasue they are willing to work for less than a brit would work for, not because they have no mortgages or kids. How many young brits just out of school have mortgages and kids. Go to any primary school and you will meet plenty of polish and other eastern european parents. They also work a lot harder than your typical brit who is under the age of say 24. I agree that the message kids get at home is more important, but the state is all powerful now with their handouts that this also has a huge influence. How many times will you hear if they are getting it, then so should i get this benefit. The sense of entitlement is choking off any kind of independence that young people might develop

Mark Stevens ● 5077d

I agree with you Tony.Sooner or Later our Politicions will see common sense and act accordingly.Britain cannot ignore their liberal policy on immigration is too one-sided and harmful even to those settled here legally.  Legally settled immigrants are caught in the growing cross -Fire.When will they ever learn TO "GOVERN BRITISH".

Os A Whittle ● 5077d

A builder who did some work recently complained that Polish workers are undercutting prices and he finds it increasingly difficult to find work! I wonder if this is widespread?

Jean F Fernandez ● 5077d

Obviously I was cared for in my childhood, I surely should not have to explain that!I was referring to my working life when I came to London alone and found my own way in life.

Jean F Fernandez ● 5077d

You're kind of right Mark but you generalise too much.You have ignored too the fact that Polish workers are generally cheaper to employ as they do not have mortgages and kids to feed and clothe.I do not think they are necessarily any harder working than a Brit. You are right though that New Labour have stuffed some working class kids.The message a kid gets at home is more important than the one he gets at school imo.

Keith Iddon ● 5077d

Re  why are people with criminal records allowed to come into the country             xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      the answer to that is those from within the EU can come in without any check or be stopped in any way, just get on a bus there and get off here. Other countries w/wide do not keep  the records that  our authorities do, apart from which, many  " immigrants " are illegally here anyway, so they are certainly not interviewed!. We learn today the Home Secretary is trying to change the rules  so that persons who commit offences here CAN be sent back and the loss of their human rights or loss of family life here would no  longer sufficient reason for them not to be sent back. No sooner had she said that , leading barristers were saying  the Judges must not be interfered with , even by Parliament and  be allowed to continue making judgements as hitherto. My feeling is Parliament should instruct the Judges and not the other way round. Some judgements have been so cras that I M O the judge should warned if another one, out you go. As far as the content of our prisons is concerned, those not of this country are far more represented  percentage wise than indigenous persons, plus there are other interesting facts but which in the interests of racial harmony, are better not voiced.

Tony Price ● 5077d

AlisonThere are plenty of jobs. If you ever had a conversation with a small employer, they would tell you that if they had to chose between a polish applicant or an english one, they would chose the polish one, becasue they will get a days work out of them. If you have to pay kids to go to school, then don't be surprised if by the time they are finished with school, they have this entitlement mentality. They believe the employer should be grateful to them, not the other way round. That's the problem, EMA and other benefits have created a culture of entitlement in this country. New Labour has spoiled our children, given them a shite education, then flooded the country with cheaper Labour, so it is the children who pay when they become adults. Who would you employ if you were an employer Alison, and English kid or a Polish one, who do you think will work harder, who would you get the best value out of

Mark Stevens ● 5077d

The problem is that if an illegal immigrant arrives and 'loses' his passport most countries will not accept them back without a travel document. The airlines get a swingeing fine but the illegal stays put until travel documents are arranged which can take months. By this time of course they have vanished into 'the community'.The easy answer is not to allow anyone at airports to enter the country without a travel document but to simply return them on the next available flight to the country from which they arrived.

Nigel Brooks ● 5077d

What I would like to know is why are people with criminal records allowed to come into the country ....how many offences  are committed by foreigners with previous records of crime ...hundreds-apparently 50 foreign offenders are jailed here every week and no doubt the British taxpayer is supporting their families some of whom are housed in million pound properties. Another question...why is  it that illegals are not turned around on the next flight back from whence they came-with or without a passport...WAKE UP ENGLAND ... Kick them all out maybe then we might have some hope of recovering from the financial problems...

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5077d

Well than I must be an exception to the rule Allison because I had no parents to help me and I did get where I am on my own merit.______________________________I don't believe for one second that you have never had any help from anyone throughout your entire life and only made it under your own steam.  It isn't just parental support that counts as I am sure you were perfectly well aware when you posted this.

Allison Franklin ● 5077d

You make your own luck.... No one gets handouts... You will get by and progress if you have  the will to work and are willing to get out there and not sit  on your ar"e all day complaining "there are no jobs" !! There ARE jobs...I know someone who at age 72..not particularly skilled but earned £910 last week doing night work... (painting) but most people would just pass over saying " I don't want to work nights " ...lazy louts !!

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5077d

I am sorry to say that many job applications have been rejected in the past where I was employed simply because of a poorly written letter or badly completed application form.Over the years I fear that the standard of education has slipped somewhat. In my day we would never have been allowed to have any distraction in the classroom during school day. I was shocked to read that pupils sit at their desks nowadays texting on their mobile phones. How on earth has this been allowed?Jewellery was not even allowed in school years ago, children were there to learn. How standards have changed.There have been cases of graduates expecting to join their first employer at the top of the scale. I remember a story of a chap who landed up on his first day telling the staff he wanted to 'Manage' - how on earth would he be able to run a department without prior knowledge of what goes on there? Needless to say he walked out before the end of his first day. An isolated example perhaps but it happened just like I said.Motivation is what people need and perserverance. A BBC overseas correspondent, sadly now passed away, had all his 100+ reject letters framed on the walls of his living room for all to see. He was working for the BBC in Hong Kong for many years after finally achieving his goal. The motto is NEVER, NEVER GIVE UP!

Jean F Fernandez ● 5078d

Re  I did get where I am on my own merit.      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    exactly Jean, self motivation is the prime ingredient. With the determination to succeed,  success is  far more likely to be the outcome. I do feel sorry for young people who are unable to get a job with prospects but have no time for those who  mucked about  with their schooling, something which was handed to them on a plate and if they  declined to take advantage of what was given to them, so be it, they must be the ones to suffer the consequences.

Tony Price ● 5078d

Re  cutting back on benefits for families with non-Western European numbers of children.             xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  for those coming from within the EU , we have no option but ANY welfare bens should only be receivable by those who have contributed to the system, ie who have lived here for a good while, 10 years min.

Tony Price ● 5078d

Well than I must be an exception to the rule Allison because I had no parents to help me and I did get where I am on my own merit.

Jean F Fernandez ● 5078d

There are very few jobs around.  Don't you read the newspapers or watch the news?  Do you think youth unemployment figures are being made up? I think it's understandable if people eventually have the will to work eroded by being presented with rubbish jobs on rubbish pay or, more likely at the moment, not finding jobs at all. It's all very well pointing the finger at the 'workshy' - how well do you think you would bear up after applying for hundreds of jobs or being unable to find anything you can apply for week after week?Once the govt scrapped the EMA grant to college students, lots of young people could not afford to keep attending their course, thereby adding to the group of undereducated teenagers who cannot get their foot on the work ladder.  There are only so many unskilled, poorly paid jobs to go round and most of those have hundreds of applicants at the moment and a lot of those applicants are highly qualified people who have been made redundant and had to drop down the pay scale in order to get a job at all.As for stopping people reproducing:  good luck with that.  Like inefficiencies in the NHS, get used to it.  If you cut back on child benefit for poorer families with lots of children, guess what?  The family becomes poorer and the children have a poorer quality of life. Lovely to see professed Christians on here recommending cutting back on benefits for families with non-Western European numbers of children. I work full-time and have done for years.  That's a combination of my personal qualities and skills and pure luck.  Luck to be born in to a family where I was supported enough to move on to a higher standard of living as I got older.  Luck because I had friends and family to fall back on if I got into a tight spot.  Some people aren't so lucky and if anyone on here thinks they got where they are purely on their own merits, then you are delusional.

Allison Franklin ● 5078d

It is an easy excuse but there is no doubting that when working at a job that you enjoy you are more likely to work better than someone who just really clocks in and out. You just have to find that job...  Temping is a good way to experience working in different companies.

Philippa Bond ● 5078d

As far as poverty among the young, there is a huge lack of work ethic in general.A good hard day's work would kill half the young workshy today, many of whom are 2nd/3rd generations who have lived on benefits.Handouts should be stopped for any young fit adult who has no reason to be on benefits apart from being too lazy to work. I can guarantee that if anyone really wants to work they WILL find a job...but many are using the 'can't get a job' excuse to avoind work.GET YOUR AR*E in gear and learn how to WORK.....

Marie Anne OConnell ● 5079d

Re  Perhaps someone could verify?        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    I think you are correct Jean.

Tony Price ● 5079d

Re  does anybody have any better solutions          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I suppose one answer would be to stop child benefits or at  least for those over a certain number, 2 maybe?. A few years ago, a woman I met who had travelled widely said persons in India asked her if it was true the Govt. here actually pay people to produce children!. We know with a few exceptions, those who have most children here are not of this country, the benefits being a great incentive, I am sure, plus the  liklihood of getting a bigger and better house.

Tony Price ● 5079d

Re    who were in great housing need.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  maybe, but not up to we taxpayers to supply it, because it is we who are paying for  them to live in luxury. Adopt my  " system " and the country's  annual welfare bill would  plummet, the country  start to prosper and be able to compete in the world with countries that do not have the stupid  costs slung round their necks.

Tony Price ● 5079d

Re  run this country for the benefit of all who live in it                xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx          I must say Jean, I disagree, because there are many living here who should not be but who get benefits  of various types. In my opinion all benefits would be stopped with 6 months notice and when restarted, with higher amounts but only  to those who deserve them. No-one coming from overseas would qualify until they had been here for 10 years, worked and paid taxes, similarly no health or dental care except for  accidental bodily injury  incurred in this country. Certainly no housing benefits and for indigenous persons, a limit lower than the newly implimented ones. That a family can even  now get £25,000 for doing nothing beggars belief. The Welfare system has destroyed the work ethic in many persons, some of whom I know. Some have been in this country for 12 years and never worked, everything paid for  by working taxpayers. Grossly unfair, grossly immoral. To take money from those who work and give it to those who don't / won't is a recipe for disaster, as we are regularly reminded.

Tony Price ● 5079d

Not everybody can afford to be a pensioner even if they are old enough.  If you haven't received it before you have to claim.  I bet they can't get the statistics right on who is and who isn't receiving it and just like all their other cuts they won't have worked out the consequences properly either.

Philippa Bond ● 5079d

There are many who have posted their views and frustrationss. We are being manoeuvred in to the kind of society we are not familiar with .As i sit quietly at my table and digest what is pointed out in each posting,my own frustrations grow.I think constantly about how helpless I have become. Politicians have been busy changing the Peoples landscape around us.and at great cost to the ordinary folk beside us.My sincere hope is that we may not find ourselves Muzzled to keep us silent.Britain now has allowed the growth of a race of UN-TOUCHABLES. They are the super Rich

Os A Whittle ● 5079d

Winter fuel allowance is paid automatically to all pensioners. A couple of women that I work who are also pensioners, have tried to get it stopped, but it seems to be too difficult for the DHSS to do so, so they give it to charity. (Help the aged I think)

Jaz Brown ● 5079d

Philippa,As far as I am aware the Winter Fuel Allowance does not have to be applied for, it is given automatically to pensioners.Perhaps someone could verify?

Jean F Fernandez ● 5079d

I would make it one child if you are living as a single parent Nigel.

Keith Iddon ● 5079d

It gets more complicated when there is more than one relationship.  How many halves do you get?

Philippa Bond ● 5079d

Radically, I would pay child benefit for only the first two children. Exisitng claims would be unaffected but from, say, June 2013 two is the maximum.I am fed-up with subsidising the progeny of irresponsible parents who, supposedly, cannot afford to raise their offspring and expect 'the state' (i.e. you and me to pay for them).If you want three or more kids then plan to pay for them!If this is seen as discriminatory against some 'cultures' where loads of children is the norm then tough!

Nigel Brooks ● 5079d

Fuel allowance has to be applied for - it isn't just handed out to those of the right age.  So how are the figures worked out?Are they looking at how many people are eligible for it or how many people take it?I couldn't believe hearing someone condemning someone else for not spending it on fuel but spending it at the supermarket.  Now if they spent it gambling that would be different. Even if it came as vouchers there would be a trade in them.  Perhaps it should also come with extra help on insulating the home so that those most sensitive to the cold get the most benefit.I'm not sure we should be encouraging people to have children in the way that we do by providing benefits for them either but does anybody have any better solutions without going down the Chinese route?

Philippa Bond ● 5079d

Can this be fair or right?A family of Somali benefits claimants living in a £2 million home courtesy of the taxpayer admitted they couldn't believe their luck yesterday.To the anger of neighbours, the family of ten are allowed to live in a six-bedroom end of terrace Georgian townhouse in one of London's most fashionable areas, populated by high flying lawyers and stockbrokers.The family use housing benefits to pay heavily discounted rent for the four-story house in Islington close to Tony Blair's former home which boasts a variety of features including chandeliers and wood flooring.The House also has balconies and a large back garden was almost £100,000 was spent on extensive renovations last year to create two extra bedrooms for the familyA fellow inhabitant Mohamed, 55 said we were on the Council waiting list. All adults in the home are on housing benefits and income support.We are lucky that is very big family I have been in temporary housing for years before this, we are good people.However there is less acceptance from some neighbors, a 72-year-old resident called Harry said this just not fair there are families are stuck in tiny flats and his family gets luxury.Most people in the country couldn't afford such a house. It seems wrong particularly when families are struggling during this recession. Then we see new carpets and TVs being brought in, where is the fairness in that? I don't think there's another country in the world where you can would be handed to £2 million House if you turned up.Another resident said she thought the Council should be forced to sell such prime properties and spend the money on social housing.It is unclear when the Somali family who have been living in the house for about a year, came to the UK and whether they arrived asylum-seekers. The precise breakdown of the benefits they receive is not known.Robert Oxley of the taxpayers alliance said the case showed why benefit reform was necessary to ensure that there is a safety net for the poorest and most vulnerable while protecting taxpayers against paying for the big expensive houses.A spokesman for Islington Council said Islington has a desperate shortage of affordable homes and is a highly valued area. This council home has been owned by the Council for many years and is currently listed as Islington family who were in great housing need.

Jean F Fernandez ● 5079d

You can take this how you like but it is a fact that we have imported many poor people,due partly to the eec and to the changing world we live in.

Keith Iddon ● 5079d

Apparently the government has a huge amount of unclaimed money which pensioners are entitled to but unfortunately a lot of these deserving members of our society are far too proud to apply for what they consider to be handouts. The application form can be very daunting for many to fill in and so the money, in many cases, goes unclaimed.There are huge savings which could probably be made if the government tackled the very rich who with clever accounting can easily avoid paying tax, likewise huge companies operating in the UK who also avoid paying the correct amount of tax. Bankers with their huge bonuses, how can they pay millions to those who brought some banks almost to their knees?Politicians arr also quite adept at making sure they milk the system for all they are worth - and get away with it!On the other hand pensioners are expected to live on a miserly pension (I would love to put some of our politicions in this position for a month and see how they manage to live on a pension). They would fail miserably!Pensioners are also penalised if they were thrifty enough to save a little for their retirement, then, should they need to go into a care home they have to fund their care, but on the other hand, those who never bothered to save for a rainy day are well looked after in their old age. So thrift is not rewarded but for those who never bothered to save are well looked after! Can this be fair?Another thought, how come that those who never bothered working, lived a life on benefits, also manage to get a nice pension in their old age? Why bother working in that case? What about those families where 2nd and 3rd generation never even bothered working? Again they are rewarded by the state. How can it be right that families would lose out if they went out to work?The entire system needs to be taken apart and start again from scratch but I bet there is not one politician with the will nor the inclination to do anything about it.To now even consider stopping the Freedom Pass for pensioners really is a step too far in my opinion. By trying to means test pensioners before they can get a Freedom Pass is a very expensive experiment. It will not work for the reasons stated above, many pensioners will not apply and therefore lose out.If a pensioner is unable to get out and about by using a Freedom Pass they may well end up feeling very lonely and vulnerable. It is actually improving the health and wellbeing of pensioners to allow them to get out and about to meet their friends, attend hospital appointments,go shopping, spend time in a park or at a local club. It would be a very hard hearted society who would allow this to happen surely? MP's (from ALL parties) are so far removed from what goes on in everyday life that they really ought to get out more and actually travel by bus, meet the people and see what goes on in society, not enjoy being ferried about in limousines all the time.Not all pensioners will use their Freedom Pass all the time of course, especially those with transport or with more money at their disposal. Then what about the Winter Fuel Allowance? Are politicians aware that in many cases pensioners have to make a decision whether or not to eat or to heat their homes to keep warm in winter? No I am sure they do not, otherwise they surely would drop the idea of stopping this allowance immediately! However, I cannot see the need to pay Winter Fuel Allowance to those pensioners living in very warm countries! It does not make much sense.Government should instead be doing much more to tackle these huge Utility Companies (Most not even owned by this country) milking us for all they are worth with ever increasing higher costs for heating, lighting and even for the water we drink. We don't own anything any more, all sold down the river!This country over the past decade or so attracted people from all over the globe to come and settle here, unfortunately quite a high proportion came for one reason and one reason only - BENEFITS. Now many won't like this statement but that is fact. Most pensioners have worked all their lives and at the end of their working career they are left to survive on a measley pension, and then hear MP's trying to somehow take any other little allowance away from them? Ridiculous!Gordon Brown even sold off our gold reserves at a rock bottom price. We need someone to run this country for the benefit of all who live in it, not to feather their own nests. Right now I really don't think anyone can sort this country out.

Jean F Fernandez ● 5079d

When we look at the Greek situation we see the poor are the ones who are made to suffer. The Thatcher/Reagan Doctrine of economics is Darwinism gone mad. As Humans we are given the qualities of compassion but unfortunately we also have the vice of greed. Greed is good as gecko said. sadly then when we see the top people creaming it off and gangsters going unpunished why should anyone have any morality. But many of us do. If benefits are scrapped and police numbers cut then what is the logical conclusion???

Peter Chadburn ● 5079d

We have a government made up of millionaires who have no idea what it is like to live under the stress of having little and having no rich friends and family to turn to in times of need.Now they are considering scrapping the few benefits free to all - only many of those they feel shouldn't have them don't take them anyway. There are not enough people now to deal with the form filling needed to help those who are eligible for help to actually get it.

Philippa Bond ● 5079d

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18363137

George Knox ● 5079d