Forum Topic

"When Ealing was shook".

Not sure what language this front-page headline is written in. Doesn't seem to be English.

Susan Kelly ● 5091d68 Comments

I can well understand that as young Welshman transplanted there - particularly if you're not a small town person either. The region as a whole does have character and variety, considering it encompasses a large part of the south Pennines and Charnwood Forest as well as the low rolling wolds and the seemingly endless plains and fens of the east; but it's never developed a distinctive strong cohesive character and image in the way Yorkshire somehow has (at least in its own and some others' eyes) for example - perhaps it's time it did.Anyway, while giving the Jubilee celebs and the Olympics a firm miss I hope to get to look in on the imho far more important and interesting 'Immingham 100' celebs in July, marking the centenary of the birth of that port and the opening of its dock by George 5 (who btw knighted on the spot the railway manager responsible for the scheme). Mind you, if you found existence in Grantham challenging, just imagine growing up in Immingham, the port without a town!!

Chris Veasey ● 5087d

Ah yes, the East Midlands - a peculiarly soulless name for a peculiarly soulless region.I hated it.

Tony Colliver ● 5087d

Yes indeed so. Mind you I hold to an unconventionally expansive definition of the North that includes some counties sough of Humber and even south of Trent - in fact it's a pity the term Southumbria can't be adopted in place of Whitehall's 'Esat Midlands' - the land of 'Nathenducknononsenseshurrupngerronwiit' - a territory as big as Yorkshire and as varied, interesting and characterful. Grantham I only know as a town occasionally passed through (since the early 1950s, when the A1 went righ through the middle) so I have to bow to your experience - have to say I'm not natural small town material myself thoug some are worth a brief look and even a brief stay.

Chris Veasey ● 5087d

Over the years there have been a few I thought though I confess that their names currently escape me.

Tony Colliver ● 5087d

Don't see why it should - at least the media allow at least one of yout lot (no I'm not talking John Humphries, who though of Welsh origin regrettably sold his birthright for a bowl of soup by becoming a complete London Home Counties assimilado) be a heavyweight national/ international TV newscaster (albeit he has said he was told by the undead of White City that he had to water down his accent a bit to be allowed on the airwaves) - imagine anybody with an identifiably Northern English voice being allowed on the supra-regional newsdesk?

Chris Veasey ● 5087d

A Welshman that was brought up in Grantham (hideous place) as well, which is almost The North.Now if you want parochial narrow mindedness then that has got to be a contender for the universe's epicentre of same.I travel back to The North (the genuine north this time - i.e. north of the Humber for the most part) regularly to see friends and attend to business and I find that it is populated by genuinely friendly people by and large, but London always calls we back.So you see you never can tell - that's the trouble with these forums - you can't see the whites of one's opponents eyes.  :-)

Tony Colliver ● 5087d

Don;t worry - I'm Welsh.Imagine the baggage that brings with it!  :-)

Tony Colliver ● 5087d

Oh deary me here he comes again. No, only them that starts their responses with gratuitous and groundless insults as you did on another thread get that treatment. Respectful and reasoned disaggrement gets reply in kind - which doesn't exclude firm and fairly forceful dissent back - folk that puts their head above the parapet on a debating forum should be able to take that without umbrage. And without descending to expressing a wish that their opponent would burst a blood vessel and die, eh?As for being a Northerner, I have neither an inferiority nor superiority complex about that; though having lived in both principal halves of England does seem to have made me more knowledegeable and broadminded on some topics and less insular and parochial than some folk.

Chris Veasey ● 5087d

Don't worry Michael - everybody who dares to express a contrary view or disagree with the great god Chris gets the same withering treatment by way of a put down.Simply rise above it and bat back with your best shot.(It's probably the result of a bit of an inferiority complex stemming from originating from the north.  :-)  )

Tony Colliver ● 5087d

Nonsense

Simon Bell ● 5088d

Yes nice one, and here's another authentic George 3 exchange with a Yorkshire gent at some do:-Geo 3: "I suppose you are going back to Yorkshire, Mr Stanhope? A very ugly country, Yorkshire." Mr S: "We always consider Yorkshire a very picturesque country." Geo 3: "What, what, what, a coalpit a picturesque object! what, what, what, Yorkshire coalpits picturesque! Yorkshire a picturesque country!"On a par with our own Betty Windsor's gaffe in slagging off the North's biggest city in public on a high profile official visit to an important Far Eastern country some years ago; and Henry 8's written condemnation of Lincolnshire as one of the most brute and beastly shires in the whole realm.And some folk question why I'm a republican.

Chris Veasey ● 5089d

Nothing much to do with the thread (sorry) but I like the English(?) and it's a nice story.... typical Geordie.Wyke Farm, between Brentford and Osterley Park, was the residence of John Robinson, who rose by the favour of Lord Lonsdale from the position of a foot-boy at Lowther Castle to be M.P. for Appleby and for other places, and ultimately Secretary to the Treasury under Lord North's administration. A good story about this place is told by Mr. Serjeant Atkinson : — " King George III., in returning from the chase to Kew Palace, was obliged to ride across Wyke Farm. One day, on riding up to one of the gates, he found it locked. The king hailed a man who happened to be close by to open the gate, but the fellow was too lazy or too stupid to go out of his way to oblige a stranger. * Come, come,' said the king, * open the gate, my man !  ' Nae, ye maun gang aboot,' was the reply. ' Gang aboot, indeed ! ' said His Majesty. 'Open the gate at once; I'm the King !  ' Why, may be,' said the chap, ' ye may be the King, but ye maun gang aboot for all that' And sure enough His Majesty was obliged to ride round nearly the whole enclosure of Osterley Park. In the afternoon Mr. Robinson, who had been away in London, returned home, and heard of the King's disappointment. He at once ordered his carriage, and drove over post haste to Kew to offer his apologies. He was admitted without ceremony, as usual, and the king, in answer to his apologies, merely replied, ' Ah ! I wish I had such fine honest fellows in my pay as your old " gang aboot." Tell him from me that I like his honesty, and shall be glad to see him here some day.' Mr. Robinson was at once put at his ease ; and as for the man, he soon found out a more direct way than all round Osterley Park to Kew, where he was kindly received by the good-natured king. It is said that His Majesty never saw Robinson afterwards without making tender inquiries after ' Old Gang Aboot' "

Tony Wood ● 5089d

I'll grant you them then - worth a "point o' 'aavy" in a Plymouth boozer - and what about 'arrfrdshrr and Glaastshrr??

Chris Veasey ● 5089d

Sorry chummy but there aint no mistake to admit whatsoever at all at all.You persist in claiming that I 'reverted' to 'some West Indian 'patois' (do you know the differences between a dialect, a patois and a pidgin?) - au contraire, a more careful reading of the relevant posts than you have so far apparently been willing or able to apply will reveal that I merely gave the West Indian (or rather Carribean was the regional term I actiually used) dialect quote as a further example of the use of 'me' as the nominative rather than accusative case - additionally to its widespread common usage that way by native English/ British speakers on this island. Back of the class till you improve your comprehensiion skills.As for your description of the particular English dialect you prefer as 'impeccable' and 'standard', if you have read all the the posts on this thread you will know that English originated in the Humber basin as a patios composed of Anglo-Saxon, Danish and Norse, if there can be considered to be one 'correct form of English is should be the native speech of middle Northern England. It subsequently spread to more backward parts of the island such as this corner, where folk couldn't master the correct accents and also used some of their own native vocabulary. Then the Normans invaded and took the place over and their native French became the language of the ruling classes. Their successors the equally-French Angevins aka Plantagenets finally had to give up the struggle to get the overwhelming majority subject population to adopt French as their first language, so had to settle for inserting lots of French words into the language and strangling English vowels to produce what we know as talking posh. Then in succeeding eras a succession of silly-clever academics and showoffs imported a vast detritus of quite unnecessary big words of Latin and classical Greek derivation, the resulting morass becoming what you and your ilk think of as 'standard' and/or 'impeccable' English. meanwhile the vast majority of folk out there in the real world continue to think and speak naturally in less polluted and poerverted forms of English for everday life.And soa thoo knaws lad!!!

Chris Veasey ● 5089d

Now hoold you on, boy, Noorfuk first, and oi loik to zee a  saft Devoneian aaccent next in the  list.

George Knox ● 5089d

Chris Veasey opined as follows------------" Well I wouldn't regard the terms 'dumb(ing)' or 'down' as appropriate at all in this context. And regrettably friend Adams seems to be a classic example of the incurably insular and parochial outlook of one particular element of society in this remote corner of this island that think the way they and their counterparts in equally thin veneers of  society elsewhere happen to speak and write is the only 'accepted' indeed the only 'acceptable' way, and that it's up to everybody else to conform to that so their goodselves can 'understand' rather then up to themselves to make some effort to remedy the lamentable deficiencies in their education and experience of the real world, of the majority that speak and write English in different forms, and acquire some knowledge and understanding of how the English language originated, evolved and diversified.But of course in reality many of these people understand perfectly well what is being said or written by others - they just don't like the sound or look of other dialects but chose to try to conceal their bigotry by pretending such dialects are incomprehensible, in a thoroughly dishonest attempt to coerce speakers and writers in other dialects to conform to theirs instead.And all because I simply pointed out that you’d written "and every bit as valid and correct as the dialects …me happen to use. "While you’re seemingly not willing or able to admit your mistake. Claiming instead, that for the first time in your life quite possibly, you’d decided to revert to some West Indies patois, in order to better make your point.Remarkably enough, your defences of alternative usages, dialects etc are all couched in the most impeccable English imaginable. With not a "me did this" or "me did that" to be seen.Presumably you did this in order to make yourself understood by the largest audience possible.This last point - that people will make use of Standard English rather than patois or dialect if they wish to make themselves understood by the largest number of people possible, is so uncontentious as to be unworthy of comment.  Except seemingly by yourself that is. Who appears to believe that by simply making such a point one lays oneself open to accusations of bigotry and an insular and parochial outlook.michael adams…

Michael Adams ● 5089d

My considered favourites are Teesside, East Lancs and Norfolk - in that order if forced to rank. Yes Geordie and its variants do have their considerable virtues, and are nowadays nationally accepted and even fashionable, following many years of disdain and disregard, the revival having started - in my perception anyway - with the popularity of the TV drama-soap series 'When the Boat Comes In'. In fact Geordie has joined Scotch speech as means for the London centric audivisual media to claim to give fair exposure to 'regional accents' while keeping the native speech of this island's heartland (essentially the Humber and Mersey basins plus) down and out.No I don't regard Southerners as inherently soft - spent too many decades living among them not to know better than that. And in fact sometimes rubbed shoulders with Southerners and even Londoners from late childhood onwards, in the North even. Anyway my wife, daughter and son in law are all died-in-the-wool Southerners, as will any future grandchildren be so far as I can see.

Chris Veasey ● 5089d

Yes it was just a parody,I like dialects really,I have to say Geordie is my favourite....it's like music."Then we had to learn you  Southerners to talk proper, with limited success as it turns out."You missed an oppurtunity there,isn't it Yorkshire to refer to Soft Southerners? I had a Yorkshire mate (for my sins) who always referred to anyone from south of Upper Poppleton as Soft Southerners,until that is he had to work in London,that seemed to cure him.

Tony Wood ● 5089d

Well yes indeed - I understand he was all shook up - happily the trad East Anglian dialect that was the basis of his and his compatriots' speech did not die with him, nor with then Singing Postman.

Chris Veasey ● 5089d

You do know that Elvis is dead - don't you?

Charles Campbell ● 5089d

Great parody of the ignorant bigot tendency!! As said, East Yorkshire and the Humber basin more generally was where the English language originated in the early Middle Ages as the coexisting Angles, Danes and Norwegians had to get along and do biz by blending their previously separate though related languages. Then we had to learn you Southerners to talk proper, with limited success as it turns out.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

Oxymoron Alert!!!"or in perfectly correct East Yorkshire speech:"

Tony Wood ● 5090d

Ha, be careful what you ask for - those that sow the wind can reap the whirlwind - or in perfectly correct East Yorkshire speech: them as sows wind can reap whirlwind

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

You guys need to get some classroom time - your writings are much too simple and way too brief.

Charles Campbell ● 5090d

Well I wouldn't regard the terms 'dumb(ing)' or 'down' as appropriate at all in this context. And regrettably friend Adams seems to be a classic example of the incurably insular and parochial outlook of one particular element of society in this remote corner of this island that think the way they and their counterparts in equally thin veneers of society elsewhere happen to speak and write is the only 'accepted' indeed the only 'acceptable' way, and that it's up to everybody else to conform to that so their goodselves can 'understand' rather then up to themselves to make some effort to remedy the lamentable deficiencies in their education and experience of the real world, of the majority that speak and write English in different forms, and acquire some knowledge and understanding of how the English language originated, evolved and diversified.But of course in reality many of these people understand perfectly well what is being said or written by others - they just don't like the sound or look of other dialects but chose to try to conceal their bigotry by pretending such dialects are incomprehensible, in a thoroughly dishonest attempt to coerce speakers and writers in other dialects to conform to theirs instead.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

I understood Chris. I think being adventurous and also using less often used words is good for you, rather like hot chocolate.I don't advocate dumbing down simply because people can't be bothered to enjoy such a rich language.If people don't understand they have the dictionary to stretch them a little.

George Knox ● 5090d

Chris Veasey asked -" Accepted standard"??? - accepted by who exactly? "Accepted by all those who wish to be understoodby the greatest possible number of listeners  and in this specific context accepted by those who don't wish to be inadvertently taken for illiterates.The point being that while you might be happy toexclaim - " and every bit as valid and correct as the dialects me happen to use. "safe in the knowledge that such usage is common in some patois or dialect with which you yourself are familiar, 99% of your listeners won't be awareof this usage at all. They'll probably take you for a child or someone unfamiliar with standard English usageChris Veasey then continued as follows - "And I don't feel under any obligation (nor expect anybody else) to stick to one particular form or dialect rigidly and consistently throughout, having a personal heritage of several. Few folk do in fact - it's all part of the exceptional richness and flexibility of the English language, that some would apparently have us do away with."You're perfectly free to speak in Old English,Middle English, Creole, or even total gibberish if you so choose. Nobody's stopping you.However if you want to make yourself understood by the largest number of people, then it’s probably advisable to stick with the usage which the majority of your listeners are most likely to be familiar with. The accepted standard, in other words.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 5090d

"Accepted standard"??? - acepted by who exactly?And I don't feel under any obligation (nor expect anybody else) to stick to one particular form or dialect rigidly and consistently throughout, having a personal heritage of several. Few folk do in fact - it's all part of the exceptional richness and flexibility of the English language, that some would apparently have us do away with.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

Chris Veasey wrote -" Yes you're quite right in that I got the two terms subject and object the wrong way round - but the conventional grammarians' term for the actual 'case' is nominative rather than subjective - at least that's what I was taught (or was learnt) at school - without things have changed in last half centuryor so.Re my choice of dialect, yes you're right I can talk and write posh, but prefer when I can get away with it to express myself more colloquially - and nowhere more so than such a thread as this where it seems appropriate to acquaint the insufficiently-informed with a few samples of other well-established and perfectly legitimate dialects or ways of expression other then their own. "Indeed, as you say -  "Nowhere more than in a thread like this"Given which it seems all the more surprising  that in this very post you didn't take the opportunity to reply - "me got the two terms...""that's what me was taught""me can talk and write posh""when me can get away with it"but instead chose to stick with the "accepted standard" using boring, old, conventional "I" as in -"I got the two terms...""that's what I was taught""I can talk and write posh""when I can get away with it"Every single time.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 5090d

Yes you're quite right in that I got the two terms subject and object the wrong way round - but the conventional grammarians' term for the actual 'case' is nominative rather than subjective - at least that's what I was taught (or was learnt) at school - without things have changed in last half century or so.Re my choice of dialect, yes you're right I can talk and write posh, but prefer when I can get away with it to express myself more colloquially - and nowhere more so than such a thread as this where it seems appropriate to acquaint the insufficiently-informed with a few samples of other well-established and perfectly legitimate dialects or ways of expression other then their own. Many Northerners have to be at least bi-dialectal, if not multi-dialectal - even them that didn't spend their last three school years in southeast Essex, where among other things some of my classmates were at pains to assure me they had "Now airccent", unlike such as me from "Ap Noof".

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

Chris Veasey asked -"Don't you mean the nominative rather than the subjective, ie the object rather then the subject?"No. In the phrase of yours which I quoted -"and every bit as valid and correct as the dialects you or me happen to use. ""me" is the subject - "happen to use" is the verb phrase and the word "dialects" is the object.In such circumstances, the correct uasage is "the dialects you or I happen to use."Now of course it's always open for you to claim that despite the fact that in all of your other postsyou appear to conform to the convntional usage, using "I" when referring to yourself as the subject,this time you chose to be different.  That in this instance, for some unaccountable reason, when posting to a local forum you choose instesd to adopt the usage (apparently) of the Carribean SE Usavian dialects and/or Harry Belafonte and/or the Reggae Reggae Sauce man.Or there again it might just have been an unfortunate oversight on your part.Who am me to know ?michael adams...  

Michael Adams ● 5090d

Don't you mean the nominative rather than the subjective, ie the object rather then the subject?And I'm afraid you're wrong - in much colloquial English speech on this island 'me' is often so used, at least when paired with another pronoun, eg 'Him and me went.....' - quite apart from Caribbean/ SE Usavian Afro dialects in which it is used alone - there was a fine example this morning on Radio 4 in a rendition of the Harry Belafonte song "... I feel so tired and me want to go home". And remember that guy that fooled the Dragons into believing he'd got the recipe for his Reggae Reggae Sauce, who introduced it to the panel with his song ending ".... me want Reggae Reggae Sauce".You may not use the pronoun that way but be assured there is them that does, and plenty of them - and for that matter, of us. There's nothing demonstrably intrisically wrong with that usage, it's just different, ie it aint abusage, as they say.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

Chris Veasey wrote -  "and every bit as valid and correct as the dialects you or me happen to use. "Me thinks you are wromg here, as me can't think of a single example in any English dialect where the word "me" rather than the word "I" functions as the subjective singular personal pronoun.Or am me wrong ?michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 5090d

Thanks you too. Yes work calls for me.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

For me to know and for you to find out. I shall leave it there. Nice doing business with you. But the good weather calls. Have a good week.

George Knox ● 5090d

- which being interpreted meaneth???

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

Hmmmm!

George Knox ● 5090d

No not at all - I have no hidden agenda here, just expounding on my perception of what looks to me to be happening to the native speech of this city region.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

Hmmmmm! I was just wondering whether you were employing a a mysterious Northern diversionary tactic to confuse clear thinking 'Sutherners'.

George Knox ● 5090d

Well not the major factor - just related in some degree to ethnic/ racial origin, said yoofspeak patois having originated or been adopted as a 'badge' by the young of one broad ethnic/ racial group here, but having spread to others of the region's young and impressionable.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

Wotsit it gotta do with dialect?

George Knox ● 5090d

So what???

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

So?

George Knox ● 5090d

Facial appearance - from physiognomy I believe, fizzog meaning face

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

What has fizzogry got to do with dialect? I don't know that word.

George Knox ● 5090d

Indeed, and much other richness of culture and language - though I do wonder if Cockney speech is doomed by the mushrooming in recent years of the newly synthesised patois composed of elements of (inter alia) Carribean, North American and Australasian yoofspeak among an ever-growing proportion of the region's youger generation, regardless of racial or ethnic background, skin colour or fizzogry. I personally think that would be rather a pity.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

One of the great things about Cockneys is that quite often they have an excellent sense of 'umour.

George Knox ● 5090d

I'm perfectly calm dear, and have been throughout - it's an interesting and in some degree important topic of discussion that I happen to have had the breadth of experience to know and understand a little about and to have given some thought to over many years - that's all.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

Wossaoolabaa????!!!!

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

I thought there was a beach at Watford. But I ain't been there yet:-)

George Knox ● 5090d

Calm down, dear.

Susan Kelly ● 5090d

Well, setting aside the fact than my only child is already in the world of work as a successful and well-repected vet, having overcome belatedly diagnosed mild dyslexia to get there, you inadvertently reinforce the point about grammar (and dialect) fascism - if those in positions of power are rejecting perfectly good candidates for jobs just because said candidates happen to use other variants of English, then perhaps it's them that's unfit for such positions of power if they are so ignorant, arrogant, intolerant and parochial in outlook -  and nobody is talking about variants 'of their own devising' we're talking about well-established and perfectly legitimate alternative dialects and forms.As a native of the country (Northern England) where the English language actually originated through the blending of Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian languages I aren't going to take lessons from any Southerner in how to speak and write, albeit I willingly acknowledge the equal legitimacy of dialects such as yours.The late Keith Waterhouse, himself a native of a working-class district of inner Leeds, once perceptively (albeit a little over-simplistically) referred in an article to the 'millions of classroom hours wasted every year in bullying Northerners into talking like Southerners'.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

It looks okay to me I can't find any guide on the internet to suggest it is definitely wrong. In this context it seems to me to work well as an intensifier. Using 'shook' as opposed to 'shaken' is suggestive of a more kinetic outcome, i.e. San Francisco was shook by an earthquake, Daphne was shaken by the news of her father's accident.Starting a sentence with a lower case letter on the other hand is universally deemed to be bad grammar.

Katherine Kieslowski ● 5090d

Agreed. And the aesthetic and cultural richness that comes of diversity of dialect is somewhere in between in importance, imho.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

Nobody was 'upset', Chris. I was merely drawing attention, in a jocular way, to a headline that was most certainly not standard English. Nor did I suggest that it was an Americanism.Chris, if you have children going out into the world of work, do by all means encourage them to submit their CVs and letters of application in some 'variant' of English of their own devising. That way you can support them financially for the rest of your life.Annemarie, good work. Even Homer nods.

Susan Kelly ● 5090d

No it isn't  - it's just different grammar from the form you're used to and/or happen use yourself. English, even in its country of origin, is far richer, more flexible and diverse than you give it credit for.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

I would certainly agree that ending sentences with prepositions is not something that we should be censorious of. However, grammar fascists should at least make sure their lectures are grammatically correct by their own anally retentive standards.I am not quite ready for apostrophe anarchy but would freely accept that clarity expression is of prime importance and form and usage are relatively unimportant.

Gerald MacArthur ● 5090d

it's not dialect. It's bad grammar.

Simon Bell ● 5090d

Oh imho a preposition is a perfectly valid thing to end a sentence with. And infinitives are there to be split. And we should support our local greengrocer's and get all our apostrophe's there - or even better, abolish the damn thing's altogether.Re your well made point about (North) American (or Usavian) dialect, of course that is heavily based on old East Anglian dialect, particularly in the Southeast states (the 'Deep South', aka Dixieland, ie south of the line set out by a couple of Geordie surveyors Mason and Dixon I believe) - compare with the best of the Singing Postman, the late lamented Allan Smethurst of Norfolk.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

Personally I think in its original form it did draw attention to the story. Them that was that upset by employment of a dialect at variance with their own or their preferred one that they didn't go beyond to read the story probably weren't going to be interested in it anyway.

Chris Veasey ● 5090d

I fear you are falling into to the trap that many do in believing that 'shook' is an Americanisation. You are perhaps more familiar with the work of Mr. Elvis Presley and his hit song from the 1950s 'All Shook Up' than the plays and sonnets of Mr. William Shakespeare who uses the word 30 times including the following from Sonnet CIV. "Such seems your beauty still. Three winters cold,  Have from the forests shook three summers' pride,"The word is one of my favourite in the English language and it pains me to see it become archaic due to a popular misconception. It may not seem to be English to you but it is about as pure Anglo-Saxon as you can get. Maybe the slightly harsh germanic tone it gives has reduced its usage but in the context under discussion it makes it more appropriate.I would agree with Chris that you should have stuck (or perhaps Susan would prefer sticken) with the original version. It is is best to avoid taking advice on grammar from someone who ends a sentence with a preposition.

Gerald MacArthur ● 5090d

But, if the headline is detracting from - rather than helping flag up -  the body of the story it is not useful, as appears to be what has happened in Susan's case.I'm happy to tweak it to use a less contentious header.Annnemarie

Editor ● 5090d

But that's the very point Annemarie - there's no such thing as a single 'correct' form, rather alternative equally correct or valid ones.

Chris Veasey ● 5091d

Not bullied Chris - just want it to read correctly and am more than open to correction!What does anyone else think?Annemarie

Editor ● 5091d

No it doesn't imho - great pity you should have allowed yourself to be bullied out of a picturesque diversity of expression.

Chris Veasey ● 5091d

Having said which, I see the 'ead 'itter has just now deleted the 'was' thereby changing the phrase from the active to the passive voice, and appeasing the 'Only Way is 'Standard' ' brigade.

Chris Veasey ● 5091d

I have lost the past tense (was) - does this sound/read any better?Annemarie

Editor ● 5091d

Well yes it is English - one of the many dialects (many of them Southern) in which the strong form of the past participle is used rather than the weak form for that particular verb (use of the term weak is not perjorative, it's just a grammarians' technical distinction) - and every bit as valid and correct as the dialects you or me happen to use. Alternative weak and strong forms are a characteristic of other Germanic languages, not least 'standard' ('High') German.

Chris Veasey ● 5091d