Forum Topic

Walpole Olympics discriminates against those not online

Over 50 % of Ealing Residents are not online yet pay council tax and other taxes.And yet after many phone calls, no one can tell me what facility exists for local residents (especially the over 60's ) for them to be included in the tickets for the Walpole park event.Nor can anyone come clean on the ratio of actual residents to invited dignitaries which I understand is near 70/30 - 30 being the residents.The whole thing seems rather discriminatory towards those who have broadband - and hi speed broadband at that and is wholly discriminatory against bona fide residents who do not have such wonders.This totally flies in the face of what the Olympic ethic is supposed to be about -Fairness and equality. Hardly apparent here.

Michael Brandt ● 5086d18 Comments

That i'm afraid is the start of it. It's not that they don't want to learn anything new, it's that they discover they can't and don't know why. That's why it's easier to say won't than risk being ashamed of being useless at something.It's most noticeable with people who one has known for life as you know when it is out of character.It's strange, I know very few friends and family who have cancer or heart disease but almost all my friends have a parent encountering different levels of dementia. I won't use Alzheimers as it's become a bit of a generic word like Hoover when in reality there are a lot of different types of dementia.But no most people do not have dementia but do slow down in different ways physically, mentally or both. But is is part of life and we should make time and space for this and not shun people simply because their spark is less than others.

Michael Brandt ● 5084d

I've been in a crabby mood all day, so apologies.I don't think we're talking about people with dementia, though, and, believe me, I know all about that, having a mother in a care home for the past two and a half years, unable to remember her own name. I do think, though, that too many old people who are not mentally impaired simply refuse to engage with anything new, which is a great pity, since there are few better ways to stave off dementia than trying something new. My mother started saying in her mid-fifties that she didn't want to learn anything new. Absolutely, the wrong attitude.

Susan Kelly ● 5084d

I am not an elder and it is a sad indictment of our society to see such crass  attitudes to the elderly and less able.It will happen to all of us. Sooner for some and later for others. It may be your parents, husband,wife or even offspring who gradually find themselves not able to command things that they once could do with ease. For some, it is even worse as this evolves to dementia. It's a hard fact that various forms of dementia are developing in more people at an increasing rate and also affecting younger and younger age groups. At the present rate, there will be as many cases in their 30s as there are currently in their 60sThis is not pleasant for those around but to see exclusion instigated by an authority which has a legal and moral duty like the rest of us should to ensure  inclusiveness.How do you think people feel when they cannot get the grasp of something that they quite probably do with ease if they learned earlier?The first thing they think is 'am I going senile?'The answer is probably not, but finding yourself ostracised from society just because you are not online or computer literate makes you feel inadequate.It is simply wrong to leave no easy option.That's not to mention the many who do not have internet access when at work. Not everyone spends their days in front of screen stuck in a chair especially during working hours.It should have been a draw with a registration point for those without computer access or constant online access which is still less than 40% of households.Which is how similar events for the Euro finals in Poland are being held where they do recognise inclusiveness even though 65% have constant online access

Michael Brandt ● 5084d

Sorry Susan. You are not listening.

George Knox ● 5084d

My husband is currently attending the Silver Surfers course at Ealing library. Maybe some of the other 'elders' should give something like that a go, rather than just moaning about being marginalised.

Susan Kelly ● 5084d

"It hard to disagree that the method of distribution is not particularly fair, but clearly the Council has more sense than money in this day and age."They could, of course, not allocated £5M for an unneeded Southall car park and then had each ticket illuminated by a monastic community and delivered by a coach and four!I do agree that it is unfair to marginalise those without either computers or, as is alleged, high speed broadband (I still wait in vain for BT to deliver Infinity locally). That said the free (or very minimal cost) computer training sessions at places like the William Hobbayne Centre, which are also a vital chance to socialise, are very popular and have seen many 'computer-phobics' hapilly sending e-mails and browsing after only a few sessions.

Nigel Brooks ● 5084d

This is surely down to simple economics.Assuming that the capacity for the Olympic Torch Relay event would be similar to the Ealing Jazz Festival, which starts the next day, and so approx. 10,000, and had the Council decided to split the allocation 50/50 between internet and phone applications, then as a very conservative estimate it would have taken over 400 hours to deal with the 5,000 telephone applications at 5 minutes per application.This translates into approx. 50 full time employee days, which even at a minimum wage equates to approx. £2,500 plus other associated costs. Running the ticket application system via the internet probably totalled a minute fraction of that.It hard to disagree that the method of distribution is not particularly fair, but clearly the Council has more sense than money in this day and age.

Tom Carroll ● 5084d

I might add that amongst those who I know cannot use computers are doctors, dentists, former machinists and engineers, a lawyer, a judge, some retired teachers and former shop assistants and a seamstress. Hardly people from ill educated or impoverished backgrounds and many who use highly dexterous skils . Fact is these normal movements leave many us sometimes as early as our 50's.Maybe Susan, you should try this,( which is a training exercise) wear a pair of spectacles that are just not quite right for your eyes, wear a thin glove and get very cold and start shivering, then try and use a computer. It's very difficult even if you know what you are doing. That's what it's like for a great many people. It could be you one day in fact if you are fortunate to live a long life, you will almost certainly experience this for real at some stage.Point is it is completely wrong to deny people when other means fairer still exist.I understand too that only those with high speed broadband were the only users to access on tuesday. Slower dial up and ordinary spec broadband users were pushed out.Again those are likely to be people of lesser means. Is that fair too?

Michael Brandt ● 5084d

Well said, Ben, and also Michael.Susan Kelly may be a get up and go person and able to take on new challenges. But she should try working over a long period with the elders, (I am one also), who have not the education or mindset to take on new technology.There are many who feel lonely depressed in some degree and marginalised by a fast moving world which in varying degrees they don’t understand. Quite a few do not have that will to do something new, and when TO THEM it seems complex, they end up with confusion and a lack of confidence which they cannot and sometimes will not overcome. Life passes them by and it is not difficult for some to accept that as everyday life, and so they miss out. There are endless research papers on this subject, and by investigating herself it would help her to appreciate what many elders suffer from before being so unsympathetic.Service providers are required by law to make adjustments for the vulnerables. The elders are used to managing their affairs by phone. Even Cllr Colm Costello was noted the other day as saying about the Council, “answer the bloody phone”.

George Knox ● 5084d

Michael is making a very worthy point which needs to be accepted. The claim that those who don't own a computer, or who are unable to fathom out how to use the internet, should just get on with it is frankly ridiculous.If I get elected as Mayor,I am going to make damm sure that people will only be allowed into Ealing Town Centre if they arrive on a bike. If you can't ride a bike, don't feel able to learn to ride a bike, don't own a bike, find it difficult to balance, have a learning or physical disability or live too far away to be reasonably able to cycle into Ealing etc.....then tough luck. Others will take your place.Is this really acceptable? On yer bike! Geddit? I hope so. You'll quickly see why Michael is so right at speaking out for those who aren't able to speak up for the themselves (those that don't own a computer; the physcially immobile who know how to use a computer but don't own one and can't get to a library etc) because they can't access this forum.Michael's point is that no resident should have an advantage over another in applying for tickets. He is bang on the money.

Ben Owen ● 5085d

I cannot go online at work in the office either. It's a sacking offence and is now firewalled to prevent external access. Very common now.It's not that people don't want to learn. My mother has tried and tried and tried to get the hang of the computer but cannot do it and gets very distressed that she can't.One of those things that we all have to accept is that many of us when we get older, no matter how bright and able they have always been can no longer take on new things that would once have been a doddle.My father gets by with the internet but struggles and gets in a mess or should I say gets the computer in a mess in bizarre ways. His brother though, is on the thing day and night!None of my friends parents are online at all. Very few of my patients over 65 have it and can use it effectively although those that do try but fail more often than not. Often it's lack of dexterity to eyesight that hinder.

Michael Brandt ● 5085d

Some of us are working and not able to go online for "personal" matters during the limited hours. I am one of them  :-(((

James Wong ● 5085d

While I do sympathise with the older generation because I'm sure that for some the Internet revolution can appear somewhat overwhelming on the face of it, the only barrier here appears to be the lack of will to learn.Like many of her friends, having never used a computer before in her life, my 65 year old mother has embraced the Internet over the last couple of years and now books her own flights, pays her utility bills (of which broadband is now one) and incidentally filled in her own Walpole Park ticket application herself yesterday morning.Ealing Council runs Internet usage courses for beginners with concessionary pricing and, as the previous correspondent says, also provides computer equipment for the general public in local libraries.Where there's a will, there's a way.

Tom Carroll ● 5085d

Simple, you had to register in advance but then apply by web scamble from 10am - sold out by 11.If you were dyslexic or illiterate, would you go to a library and ask someone the find and read something to you? Chances are you would not. Society has shunned those who cannot read for decades and now to not be able to use a computer is a new prejudice. For many, it makes them feel inadequate and second class.I checked today and the libraries are very understaffed and do not have help on tap for much of the day and not everyday.

Michael Brandt ● 5085d

The libraries also have people who will help you.'In any case, how would you be able to use this ticket application without being on a computer constantly?' You go on it once, to apply, as I did, yesterday. It took about two minutes.

Susan Kelly ● 5085d

It's not access that's the problem, A load of computers i a library are as useful as braille books for the sighted, unless you can use one.In any case, how would you be able to use this ticket application without being on a computer constantly? How could even a few hundred all be on the council computers at 10am?Thousands of people especially the over 60's simply cannot use a computer. In fact a vast majority of citizens over 55 have never been trained to use a computer. And as I work with older people, even the most active and intelligent find learning afresh a lot harder than when they were 20.In Ealing we are talking about thousands of people who are just as much people as anyone who posts on this site or use a computer.Excluding them is this way is as vile as racism.They are getting completely left out. They cannot even use this forum to even air their views.I have to say that I use a Mac, Always have, but I cannot use a PC. Hopeless with them.

Michael Brandt ● 5086d

There are masses of computers at Ealing central library for public use.

Susan Kelly ● 5086d

Totally agree with you Michael. I'd exactly the same thought when I was applying for my five tickets at 10.10 on the morning they went on sale.

Ben Owen ● 5086d