Forum Topic

Recycling mixed - clarity sought from council

A question for Councillor Mahfouz. There was a video posted showing Enterprise putting green box recycling (glass, cans, cardboard, paper, juice cartons) into a bin lorry, then putting white sack recycling (plastic) into the same lorry. Message from council: don't panic it's all going off to a centre to be sorted not to landfill so carry on recyling. Well if that's the case why have we been putting some waste in a green box and some stuff in a white sack for years. It would be much quicker for us and the collection team to put it all in the same container, wouldn't it?

Simon Higginson ● 5098d30 Comments

RosaIf the Opposition can’t work out how to get these answers themselves in Council, then as I said they would have failed. They owe a duty to the residents to get the facts and keep the political pussyfooting to a minimum. This is not so much about politics for that meeting. It is more about incompetence, and that is what the residents really want to know about. I hope as an ex Councillor you have taken that fully on board. I am not the Opposition’s secretary and I have views on my local Councillors anyway, (which are private).The politics comes later. Do you remember the piles of rubbish years ago when there was a strike in London? OK it was politics, but I don’t remember the detail. But the sight of rubbish lying in the road leaves the memory far more slowly. Julian Bell’s fate is only two years off. Sahota has won today. Without facts you will have limited ammunition.

George Knox ● 5084d

...that one of the items on the Council Agenda is "questions from members of the public"? These need to put in writing at least one week in advance of the date of the council meeting. Unfortunately it is now too late to send them in. However, if you email one of your local councillor, they may include your questions during the debate next Tuesday.

Rosa Popham ● 5085d

Dear Councillor MahfouzFurther to my previous question - when are all services going to return to normal. Using this MRF facility is ludicrous and demonstrates the incompetence of the Ealing Council officer managing this contract. It is an unacceptable situation. Furthermore what does one need to do to elicit a response from Roger Jones. 3 weeks have passed since emailing Mr Jones (jonesr@ealing.gov.uk) yet I have received no acknowledgement or response to my query regarding the waste and recycling services. This is not politics – this is incompetence. It undermines the achievements of Ealing Council (and other senior personnel), and especially residents who take the time to separate their recycling.  James H.

James Harrison ● 5085d

Also in the debate they can ask how much overtime and other expenses were incurred and who is going to pay for that. If it is the taxpayer, then the charge about competency becomes even more serious.Would be interesting to know the weekly average cost of refuse removal per domestic dwelling.

George Knox ● 5086d

Thanks.I meant an un-announced inspection at the refuse centre.

George Knox ● 5086d

Well written post. The issue has been focused primarily around politics for too long - when you strip it back there has been an unacceptable level of incompetence shown by the Director of Environment and Leisure (Roger Jones - the officer responsible for delivering all aspects of this environmental services contract).  His actions (or lack of) and leadership provided to his council staff (and councillors) are a direct reflection of the mess you see on the ground, and the recycling operations of the contractor.The bottom line is what has happened to date is unacceptable, and officers need to be made acountable for their actions.If not it just makes a further mockery of the council. While I am on this subject an email was sent to Mr Jones over 2 weeks ago which I have yet to have acknowledged (or responded too).

James Harrison ● 5086d

RosaWhat's this about the Unions?

George Knox ● 5087d

Hopefully the problem will go away. Hoho.Refuse removal affects us all very directly. I doubt that the cock up will be forgotten at the next election. There has been gross incompetence. The issues will remain on two fronts. Politics and Senior Council Officers. Obviously Senior Council Officers are so well cushioned behind the Kremlin walls of the Council that they will fade into oblivion of a general sense of incompetence which prevails in some parts of the Council. The trouble with these feeble uppers is that they never engage publicly, unlike in some other boroughs of London. So they continue to attract a lower level of respect than they should have. Some of the Senior Officers are excellent, and it is a pity that they are dragged down by those who hide in corners.Where these senior people failed, was to check and check again that all scheduling had been worked out in the new contract against the old contract. They also failed to check the appropriate kind of vehicle. Amazingly they had many of the operatives who transferred over to Enterprise to call on for advice. Amazingly they had months and months to prepare for the change. They chose an incompetent contractor who with all the experience they have of refuse removal shows that there were serious flaws in their own management. Pity our Council Officers did not have the experience to spot that. But however useless the new company is, that in no way absolves the checking process by our own Council Officers whom we pay handsomely to look after our services. The CEO should not be recommending any increments for those with direct management responsibility and I hope the debate will establish that. The staff as well as the residents need to see that when things go wrong, then justice is seen to be done.Also the question of sorting waste. Waste has to be paid for. Did the Council get a better deal on each and every kind of waste category, as well as getting a better deal on manpower costs? And was this checked by the Finance Director who is charged with getting value for money? The debate should discover this.Why was the contract let for (was it) 14 years with a 7 year break? That is far too long when Councils are amalgamating services with other authorities and will do so for years to come. What went on behind the scenes? Why did the Finance Director not shorten the contract to give long term financial flexibility? The contract is huge by Ealing Council standards, and if the Officers can’t get it right, then it is worth making this an issue because you then wonder how good they are at letting contracts generally.Councillor Mahfouz (the Member in charge) says ‘The contractor does and is using recycling vehicles which are sorting out recycling at the kerb side and are increasing the numbers of rounds that these are deployed on, bearing in mind the priority set out above. They will continue to increase the numbers of rounds on which they are deployed to replace this temporary measure.’What he does not say is that the whole borough will go back to recycling at the kerbside. The debate should clarify that. He also failed to say when this readjustment process would be completed. That was rather pitiful on such a simple question.Doing organised inspections may be useful. Doing an announced inspection will get closer to the truth.Why does Enterprise have to dispose of our waste after it has spent so much fuel in getting to Kent or John O’ Groats. Is there not a closer venue to reduce the holy carbon footprint? Another question for the debate please.That is my view re Officers.The Council Chamber is a bear pit for political bun fights. They should remember that C Mahfouz who gets little support from me nevertheless is not shown on websites as being a refuse contractor specialist. OK as the lead politician he has to give the answers, but he does not have and is not expected to have sufficient experience to check every schedule across the borough. So let the Opposition spend more time getting the facts this time. They have plenty of time to fight their political battles later. But his answers will help us knowing a little more whether he and his chief have the steel to face up long serving Council Officers. Or whether the Officers lead the Socialists by the nose? If the Opposition spends most of its time whinging (which nowadays is mainly unreported due to lack of Press journalists) and does not get the facts then they will have failed.

George Knox ● 5087d

This discussion is going round in circles because people aren't trawling through all the comments.Here's my summary...Council has teething problems with new recycling contract. People suspect that their recycling efforts are being wasted. Somebody takes the word of some bloke who is only employed to load the van. Tory councillors make political capital out of it. Councillor Mahfouz takes a cross-party group of councillors to meet the company and prove that actual recycling is still happening. Somebody else hears another story from someone who loads the van - who probably thinks that there is infinite land fill space. Tory councillors continue to make political capital out of a non-exisent problem etc etc etcHopefully when the press that councillor Mahfouz have invited to witness the facts publish their reports then this non story will go away.

Alan Anderson ● 5087d

One of the dustmen told me as he was collecting my rubbish this morning:Recycling is now going to Manchester! Now I know Man Utd are affectionately known as Manure, but this is too much. He also told me "you're wasting your time separating the rubbish" What is the point?Will Cllr Mahfouz please organise for a select group of residents to visit the recycling plant so that they can see for themselves how are recycling gets recycled? With so much rubbish being communicated by Labour and the Tories on this subject, it is now about time that the bull?!$t stops and we get the clarity that we deserve.

Ben Owen ● 5087d

The issue with the meeting may be that it will be a party political battle. however the officers that do the work and recomend the deals appear to avoid all of this!! we really need the truth this time.

Peter Chadburn ● 5087d

RosaFor those of us unable to observe the full Council meeting, please, please post a full account of proceedings.

Nigel Brooks ● 5087d

The one thing that has been bugging me in this ‘saga’ is: how come that Enterprise, who has had months and months to prepare for the changeover, had to wait till 1st April, the first day of operation to train staff ‘acquired’ from the old contractors? Were the Unions involved and responsible for this delay? If so, would this also explain why the ‘right’ fleet of trucks were not in position at the start of the contract? Was Enterprise waiting for the agreement between the council and the unions before going ahead with ordering its new fleet?If I am correct in this, then what would have happened if this agreement would have not been reached by 1st April? Was there a ‘Plan B’ to ensure a continuation of service to its residents by Ealing council? Again, if I am right, then the last pressing question is who is  really running Ealing council: the present Labour administration, the officers, or the Unions?As I have already mentioned, there is a Special full council meeting, which has been called by the conservative group, next Tuesday starting at 7:00 pm to seek clarification and discuss what and why it has all gone so wrong. Hopefully, once and for all, it should answer all our questions.

Rosa Popham ● 5087d

Dear Councillor MahfouzI have also heard a rumour that some of the mixed recycling collection is being (and has been) sent to landfill – are you able to 100% guarantee that this has not happened over the last 4 weeks?Could you also please advise what Roger Jones involvement in this mess is and why he hasn’t taken a prominent and proactive role (given that he is the empowering officer for this environmental services contract) – perhaps you could also ask him why he hasn’t bothered responding to an email enquiry addressed to him 2 weeks ago over this matter. As queried to Mr Jones, I am confused why it was stated in a cabinet report (prepared by Mr Jones) that a ‘robust level of contract management’ would be undertaken during the handover/ mobilisation period of this contract, but from the events witnessed on the ground this has never materialised.  Obviously a high profile and visible service such as this needs to be ‘robustly’ managed – yet why hasn’t this been demonstrated by Mr Jones.Lastly could you please confirm if there are any financial penalty clauses within the physical works contract for failing to deliver an appropriate level of service – and whether these will be imposed on Enterprise?James H.

James Harrison ● 5087d

Dear all,Thank you for the original question and I am happy to answer it as I have been to residents who has been in touch with me by e-mail and phone.Some recycling crews are collecting the contents of green boxes and white sacks mixed and these are being sent, as we have stated on the Ealing Today website and on the council's own pages, to a material recycling facility (MRF) in Kent.It is a system that many boroughs use but the system is a temporary response to the need to support the priority of collecting everyone's refuse and recycling on the right day.The contractor does and is using recycling vehicles which are sorting out recycling at the kerb side and are increasing the numbers of rounds that these are deployed on, bearing in mind the priority set out above.  They will continue to increase the numbers of rounds on which they are deployed to replace this temporary measure.Today I took a cross-party group of councillors to see the MRF today and am arranging for a visit for local journalists to do the same and ask questions as we did.  There is nothing to hide and we are being open and honest about this situation. I had tweeted about the visit today including a photo from the visit (www.twitter.com/bassammahfouz) and we have published more details of where all the recycling goes on the council website: http://www.ealing.gov.uk/news/article/361/how_all_materials_are_recycledHowever, it is widely recognised that kerb-side sorting is the best method of recycling.  We, and I believe the majority of residents, want to stick with this method of recycling and I am grateful to every individual and family who take the effort to recycle, it is a vitally important thing to do not simply for the council and for fellow residents but environmentally too.I appreciate the frustrations of residents who have carefully sorted out their materials only to see it mixed together in the back of a vehicle.  Enterprise are reintroducing kerb side sorting vehicles slowly to ensure they do not lose sight of the current priority of timely collections across the borough and I am grateful for everyone who continues to recycle.Residents are welcome to ask me any question directly by e-mail or by phone.  I hope the above goes some way to answering the questions posed.Yours sincerely,Bassam Mahfouz-- Cllr Bassam MahfouzEaling Cabinet member for Environment & Transporttwitter.com/BassamMahfouzwww.bassammahfouz.com

Bassam Mahfouz ● 5087d

Thank you for letting us know. Will be interesting to hear what they say.

Jaz Brown ● 5087d

This is because they are worried that if we stop doing this then it will create problems for them when they will take delivery of the proper fleet of trucks in June. I wonder what the depreciated value of the recycled stuff is under the present messy arrangement. if any of you is free next Tuesday 8th of May, a Special Full council meeting has been called by the opposition to ask clarification and find out why and what has all gone wrong with the new contract. The meeting is scheduled for a 7pm start.

Rosa Popham ● 5087d

And we had the little leaflets asking us to please still separate the plastics and paper because they are recycling. Another bit of propaganda and waste of money!! I feel insulted.

Jaz Brown ● 5088d

I certainly would think so, otherwise the next local elections will be a foregone conclusion.It could of course be that Ealing have pulled off a master stroke and awarded the contract for the transportation to Kent and subsequent sorting of countless tons of mixed and compressed recycling waste to one recently retired Harry Potter!!

Peter Cumming ● 5088d

One would have thought that an administration that has nothing to hide, and in order to regain some sort of credibility with its residents, would have by now organised a site visit to this recycling facility in Kent and invited to it councillors and members of the local press – perhaps posting a video or photographs of the visit on the relevant web sites. This would have reassured us that indeed things are as they claim to be. Wouldn't you think so to?

Rosa Popham ● 5088d

One of the workers apparently has quietly let it slip that our recycling stuff is not getting recycled!! This is interesting as this has occured a few times around the country. Given the volume of recycling how many lorries would be leaving for the depot in kent where there sorting occurs?

Peter Chadburn ● 5088d

http://www.letsrecycle.com/news/latest-news/councils/enterprise-apologises-for-ealing-collection-problemsThe story is the same.What is needed is good contracts for the resources separated. The better the quality the better the contract.I remember being told how a previous contractor used to collect and crush good furniture because it did not have anywhere to put it and did not have a buyer for it.

Philippa Bond ● 5088d

We recycle to re-use resources and reduce our carbon footprint. How much carbon is being wasted by 'exporting' our recycling to Kent and by the use of machines to subsequently sort it? What a pathetic excuse for a council!!!I guess therefore my vote is (a),(b) and (d)

Nigel Brooks ● 5092d

Simon Higginson asks:  If Enterprise are going to sort out all the recycling 'back at base' then why haven't we and why don't we always recycle like this?---------------------------------------------Feel free to pick any/all of the following:(a) The residents of Ealing are being lied to.(b) The residents of Ealing are being made fools of.(c) The council has been lied to.(d) The council is grossly incompetent.Personally, I opt for (a), (b) and (d).  And maybe (c), but that is really covered by (d).

Andy Horridge ● 5092d

Concillor Mahfouz needs to answer my original quesion. If Enterprise are going to sort out all the recycling 'back at base' then why haven't we and why don't we always recycle like this? it's quicker for us (we stick it into one container) and quicker for the collectors (they stick it into one lorry)

Simon Higginson ● 5092d

Further to Mahfouz's reply (to Simon Bell's question), "Cllr. Mahfouz had a reply that this measure is only until Enterprise get the correct vehicles on the roads."This begs the question:"Why was the contract given to a vendor that clearly is unequipped to carry out the required work?"Didn't anybody in Ealing council make checks to see that Enterprise had the manpower and machinery to carry out the work?The council showed an amazing efficiency in levying an extra 'garden waste tax';  it's just a shame that the council didn't show a similar degree of efficiency in awarding the contract to a company that is equipped to do the job.At the very least, it is a display of staggering incompetence.  Roll on the next elections . . .

Andy Horridge ● 5092d

I asked this very question of Cllr. Mahfouz & had a reply that this measure is only until Enterprise get the correct vehicles on the roads.

Simon Bell ● 5092d

Was going to create a post on this, but concur with other comments. Just watched the collectors (W7) throw all our carefully sorted re-cycling waste into the one lorry. Certainly won't be bothering to take care in packing the green box now.

Bud Richards ● 5093d

I agree. They've just been down my road in W7 and chucked green box and white sack stuff altogether into a big crushing lorry. How are they going to sort all that broken glass? I don't believe a word of it.

Alan Anderson ● 5093d

During the first week of the change over, I asked one of the workers why he was putting everything in together, he told me it was just for that week,(because of the backlog) and that they were going to have to sort it all out by hand when they got back to the depot, and he wasn't that happy about it. Then we had the post from the councillor saying that a machine was sorting them plastic and papers etc. Think someone's telling porky pies

Jaz Brown ● 5098d