Forum Topic

Watermans to be removed from Brentford

If you thought things were a bit wonky in Ealing then you might take solace in knowing that Hounslow is run more like Cuba.Councillors have fallen silent over the revelation that they plan to hand the site over to developers for luxury riverside apartments.They plan to relocate the Watermans centre somewhere else, like Hounslow or beyond.This will almost certainly finish off the Watermans as they will lose their solid patronage which is from Chiswick, South Ealing, Brentford and Kew.Yet again as is almost customary in Brentford, it's local councillors have buried their heads in the sand choosing to be incommunicado on the matter. What little has emerged is rather   contradictory.  In fact, they are going to lengths to stop facts emerging. A petition has been launched, please pass this as far and wide as possible to all those who values the Watermans as an integral part of Brentford's public riverside.www.keepwatermansinbrentford.org.uk

Michael Brandt ● 5112d29 Comments

Waterman's has dance classes that are used by many children and young people that live on the Green Dragon Estate. People are able to rent space at the Waterman's to open their own clubs. My son went to the Drama classes there from the age of five until about 12, when they were moved to a community hall in the estate, about 10 years ago. Waterman's has changed greatly over the years. Now they have one off ten week courses for Drama. I can remember going to see a number of Artist there during the 90's including Mica Paris, Elvis Costella and many comedians (Lenny Henry, Felix Dexter) would pilate their shows there. You could go there for Sunday lunch and hear live music, and believe me it was people from all walks of life who went there. Now I only go for the cinema, and the atmosphere is quite sad. Such a shame that Monty's took over the whole area where there were shows. Not that I don't like Montys, but there are plenty of them to choose from and not many venues for live music around here.

Jaz Brown ● 5099d

That would be, of course, a personal opinion from Matt Harmer. Personal opinions of councillors count for, at best, very little.This is something that we all, who choose not to believe Labour newspeak babble, know only too well in Ealing.

Nigel Brooks ● 5099d

Hi, meant to say "Labour councillor Matt Harmer". He usually puts the mass emails up on a blogsite http://www.mattharmer.com/and seeing as this missive is a newbie he may not have got around to it yet but I imagine it will be publicly up there for all to see shortly.

Rupa Huq ● 5099d

I've just come back from the exhibition at St Pauls hall on the Brentford development and that's not what they are saying.They expect LB Hounslow to make the Watermans site available in return for a small site within the development.This needs to be made clear. Who is keeping whom in the dark and why are so many different tunes coming from sources various?

Michael Brandt ● 5100d

Perhaps said councillor would like to go public with the denial.

Nigel Brooks ● 5100d

Hi there, I just got a mass-email from Brenford councillor (Labour) who claims that this is just a rumour with no truth to it. Have pasted the relevant bit below:* Watermans *You may have read about various petitions to call for the Watermans to remain in Brentford. This took me a bit by surprise when I first read about it because I hadn’t heard about any plans to move the Watermans anywhere. I’ve asked around, and there aren’t. I’d love to tell you that I will complain resolutely against any plans to move Watermans to Hounslow or anywhere else but it would be a bit of an empty gesture really because there aren't any plans to campaign against.That’s not to say that there shouldn’t be a debate about what arts provision there should be and where it should be... (then it goes on to talk about Lampton Park and other things not immediately within the everyday experience of folk in Ealing)PS The email also gave info on St George's Day festival with live bands and canoeing on Sat in Brentford High Street. A further link is here: http://www.brentfordtw8.com/default.asp?section=info&page=evmarketplace.htm

Rupa Huq ● 5100d

My father was one of the original founders of Waterman's who fought hard to get any type of cultural meeting place back there. It's waterfront location is very special and the people of Brentford deserve this.  I like the idea that IF we must have yet more ugly imposing flats; lets have a splendid Arts Centre underneath with river views called - WATERMAN'S!!  In the 60's I took photos where Morrison's and the new flats now are - I remember a real sense of being 'on the river'and so I too am worried about the park and what is going to happen to that pleasant little bit of green space.I like the mix of films and know there are far more people attending now that Ealing has messed up its' cinema and my children were regulars at the plays - not to mention the excellent drama groups there for kids.  Hounslow Council - you have knocked down beautiful buildings all over Brentford in the last 30 years - give us back a great Waterman's.

Jools Lewis ● 5101d

I went to the Robeson Theatre a couple of times and both times had the same experience in so much as getting there was ok,but leaving the Treaty Centre at 10:45 pm and walking through the pedestrianised area was quite a disconcerting experience as there were gangs of blokes hanging about in shop doorways staring at passers by.I am glad I had a couple of mates with me .A person walking on their own would not feel so safe.

Keith Iddon ● 5102d

"Hounslow already has the Paul Robson centre why do they need Watermans?"They don't, simple as that, but they will use the 'under-utilisation'  argument to push this through. They were considering selling the Paul Robeson as recently as last year (source: Hounslow Chroicle) It's in the hands of the Waterman's and its patrons to get more bums on seats/revenues up to convince Hounslow that it is situated in the right place now and for the future.Incidentally, it's the Paul Robeson Theatre. Robeson I don't believe had any connection with Houslow save having a theatre named after him by some PC-looney.

Nigel Brooks ● 5102d

The plans showing the proposed redevelopment of Brentford/Watermans are available to be seen by the public at St Paul's Parish Centre, St Paul's Road, Brentford, TW8 0PN tomorrow, 19th, and on 20th and 21st.    See:-http://www.mybrentford.com/brentford2.0/latest#page-topfor opening times.Nigel, I like the mix of films show at Watermans, it's varied from the latest to a selection of foreign and art films.  There are programmes aimed at mums and children too.  The theatre, I agree, is under-used, or more accurately, under visited.  I've suggested elsewhere that they should try and encourage local theatre groups to use that lovely space, instead of stand-up comics and obscure Eastern performances.    We current patrons put "bums on seats" and if we had more theatre and art shows aimed at us, we'd go even more often and what's wrong with that - surely we're entitledd to have some local entertainment.  Moving it to Hounslow would simply kill off the existing customer base.  Hounslow already has the Paul Robson centre why do they need Watermans?

Jennifer Selig ● 5102d

Good points Keith.I like Questors but using the space is prohibitively expensive for many smaller theatre/musical groups. C'mon Waterman's there's another source of untapped revenue.

Nigel Brooks ● 5103d

Around london there are many small theatre spaces such as the Bush. These are usually always in use by theatre companies, some wacky some mainstream. It seems to me that the Watermans theatre space is very underused. Cannnot it attract some of these small companies. I agree that the so called art exhibitions are for the most part of little interest to any but the most dedicated. Replacing the Indian restaurant with a simple cafe would attract more people. As to films, whenever a film such as "marigold hotel" are shown, the cinema is sold out. While here is a place for so called art films, audiences for these are usually fairly small. ( I do sometimes watch such films I might add and half I enjoy, half are just boring )Regarding admission charges, I can go to Shepherds bush Vue on weekday afternoon for around £6.10. Hammmersmith Cineworld for around £6. Yes Mondays at Watermans for a fiver are good value providing the film is worth watching.If watermans is to be relocated, let Ealing council take it over and rebuild in the centre of ealing and then manage it on a commercial basis. There is at least one empty space available. In the meantime one small point. Could a few more tables and chairs be provided in the raised area in front of the theatre. Wouldn't cost a bomb. Finally if we must have more luxury flats, Build on top of watermans and the office block next door.Last but not least is the waterman waterside park safe from the developers.

Keith Mason ● 5103d

Yes but the plan for the significant regeneration of Hounslow will always take priority over Chiswick where regeneration is not a priority and building plots are scarce and expensive.

Nigel Brooks ● 5103d

While there is a large council estate opposite, recent years have seen the building of large numbers of developments of expensive flats, bringing a different demographic to Brentford. I can't see that Hounslow has any better pretensions to grandeur than Brentford. If that was the criterion, then they'd move it to Chiswick!

Susan Kelly ● 5104d

Minority appeal = minority revenues.A sad reality of current arts funding is that those who seek to perpetuate the 'art-house' approach need either very deep pockets to fund it themselves or a reliable method of transport to travel to the areas where pockets are deeper (clue: Brentford isn't one, despite the pretentions).Waterman's has to appeal to all of the local community and fully engage with them. It sits on the edge of a large social housing estate and while 'delusions of granduer' may suit the minority continuance of that approach will lead the council to relocate it faster than you can say 'knife'.

Nigel Brooks ● 5104d

Place shows a near perfect balance of Mainstream, art house and mainstream foreign films. It is by far one of the best things in Brentford and Ealing areas.The theatre though, a far cry from Thunderbirds FAB and other shows that found their way to the west end. Pop Quiz was a must on sat nights and the trivia  wednesday quiz a great laugh too1 Cheap bar prices and it was always packed. Then the PC brigade started meddling and what happens when political types meddle?Well, nothing I can think of is ever better or the same thereafter.

Michael Brandt ● 5104d

I don't want the cinema going mainstream; it's an arts centre; it should carry on showing art-house films that aren't available at many other places.

Susan Kelly ● 5104d

That's St. Paul's I think Jennifer.

Keith Iddon ● 5104d

Nigel - Watermans show all the newest films (about 1 week later than Richmond Odeon).Watermans Brentford development plans on view to public later this week for 3 days 19th, 20th & 21st at St Peter's (behind Morrisons).  For latest info see following link:-        http://www.mybrentford.com/brentford2.0/latest#page-top

Jennifer Selig ● 5104d

Every year Watermans send me a survey and every year I ask for a re-furbished cafe area.  Most kids I know, including mine don't eat Curry!!! This place would be fantastic with a decent Cafe serving good quality grub (no it doesn't have to be wheatgrass and organic carrots!)

Diane Gill ● 5104d

A really good marketing campaign cutting links with the 'wonderful Chilean fim about cheese making' brigade would do wonders for the Waterman's. There is a dearth of 'mainstream' cinema locally. The upcoming screenings at Waterman's are barely mainstream.It really needs to move mainstream. There are a number of pubs in Brentford that have live music and pull in crowds (spending cash) as a result. The Waterman's is ideally placed to capitalise on the success of these places; not copying them but moving up market - replacing the Jazz gigs that used to be at Brentford FC monthly as an example.Exhibitions by LOCAL artists, art classes, school holiday programmes. The weekend children's theatre events at the Wtaerman's are immensely popular - more of the same. It isn't rocket science but there is a need to cast off the elitist past quite demonstrably. Get the numbers up and you have a compeeling case to tell Hounslow what to do with their 'plans'.Oh and yes, bring back the cafe but not the organic twaddle menu that was there in isolation but something more mainstream in addition.

Nigel Brooks ● 5105d

Absolutely Keith.I love a ruby too but not everyone does and the cafe they used to run had a good range of modern style grub.I have used the Waterman's since 1983 and used to like the Sunday music and the gigs and discos.I think there is a bit of cultural snobbery ingrained in the place now, although with what they provide I don't know what there is to be so snobby about.The gallery there often has exhibitions of dubious artistic value and seem a bit pretentious imo.

Keith Iddon ● 5105d

One of the best assets of Watermans is it's riverside location. Moving it "inland" would lose it's character. Over the years it has been badly managed with little publicity, Theatre unused for most of the time, only indian food available ( and I love indian food but the original cafe type food was much more popular) Loss of sunday lunchtime live music. Do we really need another riverside block of boring blocks of flats to let at outragious rents to an elite few ?Improve the cenre where it is, please.

Keith Mason ● 5105d

LOL. It was the wonderful Tamar Swade with her music for babies and children (Pandemonium) which I reckon saved my sanity!  There was nothing quite like it (probably still isn't) and we went for years, travelling down to Brentford on the 65 bus.

Philippa Bond ● 5109d

So disappointed to see this, I have signed it and will pass it around. Watermans has saved many mothers sanity (including mine) with their baby screening on a Wednesday where many Ealing mums like to go. Another typical scenario illustrating the shortsightedness of councillors :(

Mary Horesh ● 5110d

Have signed. I go there with my 5 year old son, we love the plays and would certainly miss Watermans if it was removed from the area.

Diane Gill ● 5111d

Have signed and posted a news story on West Ealing Neighbours web site.For those who love cinema the Watermans is clearly the best art cinema in west London. There clearly is no sign of the cinema in the centre of Ealing being rebuilt and plans are well advanced for demolishing the cinema in central Hammersmith.If Watermans is demolished I really can't see a replacement arts centre anywhere else in Hounslow in my life time.

Eric Alan Leach ● 5111d

Have signed and sent on to others. Thanks for the posting

Jaz Brown ● 5111d

Thanks for this. Signed petition and forwarded onto others. Outraged of Hanwell

Ben Owen ● 5111d