Forum Topic

Citizens Advice to return to Ealing

From Ealing Council's website"Organisations will now be invited to bid to run a Citizen’s Advice type service which will offer broadly the same type of help and advice as Law for All which went into administration last summer. The new service will initially be set up under a one year contract, with the option to extend for a further year if necessary"This really is a great piece of news.However does the Council realise that usually there is a significant difference between what a Law centre does (with qualified solicitors) and what a CAB does which very rarely has qualified solicitors?And providing funding for just one year (or even two) is a nasty little mean minded joke. The Borough has some of the most deprived areas in the whole country. This should be a long term project.

George Knox ● 5192d12 Comments

I aren't opposed to any such facilities - many ordinary punters here as elsewhere need all the advice and help they can get - that wasn't the point I was making and you know it.But your assertion that this borough is possibly the third poorest in the country, whichever country you mean, is patently ridiculous and a prime example of London parochialism and wilful ignorance and disregard of the world outside. You may not think you need a history lesson but you evidently do - and a geography lesson too,There's many estates far worse in every respect than Green Man and Copley Close in other cities particularly in Northern England and central Scotland (few if any former mining townships have estates of that sort - they have other problems) - including many isolated from any meaningful facilities, unlike Green Man that has all the considerable benefits (even for the poor) of a large town centre on the doorstep, and (unlike almost anywhere outside London) exremely good and heavily subsidised public transport among other facilities, including access to computers at public libraries and cheap internet cafes within reasonably easy reach - wonder what facilities of any sort they have in Glyncorrwg, to take an (admittedly fairly extreme) example - ever been there, or even heard of it?

Chris Veasey ● 5007d

We have estates like Green Man and Copely Close, which are in the bottom 20% of wealth in the country and probably lower. They both have substantial populations of children below 5 who are living below the poverty line. Unemployment on those estates exceeds 65% - and I could go on. We have people in the borough living in garden sheds with no facilities. The stats do come from the ONS and LBE has clarified them. Whether you accept the ONS, or even the basic assertions of Statistics, is irrelevant. Nor do we need a history lesson from you. Unfortunately the borough's problems are more modern. We have the third highest immigration into the borough for one thing. But not all the poverty lies with immigrant families. The reality though is that without proper legal advice, a large proportion of our borough becomes disenfranchised - excluded from society in various ways. On Copely Close, for example, they just recived some money to make computers available to the residents in a community service. These people would otherwise have no access to such conveniences. That fact alone gave me serious pause. But wait, they don't live in a mining area, so they can't be poor!I have no idea whether CAB staff are paid. I think they function using unpaid and untrained volunteers, which replaces the EEC who use trained and trainee lawyers, QCs etc. Removing the EEC is simply another means of disenfranchisement of those who need it most. But I think you would never be persuaded. So be it.

Daniella Gluck ● 5007d

Well so much for the source - the 'Office of National Lies, Damned Lies and....' - presumably to be able to make this claim of 'Ealing being the third poorest borough in London if not in the country' there must be detailed comparative stats (how collected?) for every District-level or Unitary local authority area in the country (without you're only including those that officially call themselves Boroughs rather than Cities, Districts or just Councils - and which country? - England, Great Britain or the UK?), and one or both of you must have done the 'not five minute' exercise on the stats to be in a position to make that claim and to object to my disputing it? - so lets have it.As for your dismissive comment about what this wealthy corner of the country inflicted on the coalfields (not just S Yorks, I was just citing that as an example), and on other industrial/ urban areas, being 'many years ago', the effects will be with those communities (where not completely dismantled and swept away) for many years yet. Indeed some areas and places have never really recovered from the earlier 20thC interwar depression.Yes of course I'm aware there's a lot of folk here not so affluent - I rub shoulders with some of them - but that doesn't justify the claim that the borough is 'poor' - and one way and another existence for many of them is likely to be less threadbare than for their counterparts in remoter places that successive London governments have effectively abandoned to their fate - areas where at best it's minority pockets of affluence rather than pockets of poverty - places like Maryport for example, where it's difficult even to buy fruit in its town centre (about the size of West Ealing's) and not good quality when you do find it - perhaps really poor folk don't buy fruit because it doesn't fill the stomach and dull hunger enough? - just a theory - or maybe a matter of not being anywhere near a major international wholesale fruit market like here? And what basis for your implied assertion that this borough has more than its share of dwellings with mouldy walls and noisy neighbours?Btw don't know if still true, but CAB staff in Greater London used to be paid, whereas those in the rest of the country were expected to do the job as unpaid volunteers.

Chris Veasey ● 5007d

The source Chris is the ONS. However it it not a five minute exercise to do the analysis.There are quite a few reports (I read a good one prepared by the NHS a few months ago) which confirm that Ealing has a high UK level of deprivation in parts. That justifies more backup for disadvantaged people than either the Tories or the Labour party have provided in many years for the borough.Your white rose bluffness about the miners many years ago was a different issue, and there the community did provide food parcels and other support. You probably have worked and do work to protect yourself. But should God forbid you get struck down and be entitled to DLA or Attendance Allowance, you would certainly want the document prepared by someone who knows what they are doing. If you lived in social housing surrounded by blaring music and mould on your walls for years, again you would want some one who knew just how to deal with those sorts of problems. The point about the EEC people is that they know who to approach. That takes years of knowledge building.If people who have given up through the cynicism of bureaucracy or bias or downright racism, or incompetence (you clearly have views on that one) then, without a leg up back into getting control over your life (the PC brigade call it empowerment), they become even more a burden on society.

George Knox ● 5007d

Your source, and the detailed countrywide stats and analysis??Ealing isn't 'inner city', it's an outer London borough

Chris Veasey ● 5008d

I'm afraid my facts are correct. Ealing has a very wealthy sector and a substantial population which lives well below the poverty line. It is unfortunate that when covering the riots last year, reporters kept talking about prosperous, leafy, Ealing. For many this simply isn't true. Inner-city poverty isn't something to scoff at, even if it doesn't affect you personally.

Daniella Gluck ● 5008d

"We are the third poorest borough in London, if not in the country" (!!!!) - surely a tautology - thought you Planet London folk think London IS the country? Don't worry, shall I get folk in the likes of the former South Yorkshire coalfield to send you some emergency food parcels?Alternatively send you the travel money to get out (of London and its 'home counties' a bit more?

Chris Veasey ● 5008d

All of you who are pleased to see CAB return - have you ever needed free legal advice? But just suppose one day you did - would you prefer to recive it from a bored housewife or a trained lawyer working pro bono? Think about what you support. Even if you don't need it, there are people without computers in this borough, living below the breadline. We are the third poorest borough in London, if not in the country, and we have just lost our free legal advice service. I'm not clapping. This is the worst kind of politics.

Daniella Gluck ● 5009d

One year contract for a CAB seems inadequate but havng an Ealing based CAB for a year will help a lot of people.

Eric Alan Leach ● 5012d

George Knox ● 5012d

Good News

Philippa Bond ● 5191d

George,A million thanks for raising this. With more and more people in real difficulty this is no longer a frill but an essential provision. Well done Ealing council.

Arthur Breens ● 5192d