Forum Topic

Yellow Line v Quality Of Life...told you so

So after objecting to double yellow lines being put on the corner of all my local streets, the Council did it anyway. So tonight after a 14 hour day, I came home and there was nowhere to park.In fact  I had to park 3 streets away and I am very concerned about my car being stolen / vandalised.Thanks to The Council for reducing my quality of life by just a little bit...Thanks very f@@@@@ much !!

James Green ● 5242d37 Comments

This was the thread I was talking about (http://www.ealingtoday.co.uk/default.asp?section=community&link=http://appasp.EalingToday.co.uk/server/app/forum/default.asp?site=2), but it's actually more to do with the driveways everyone started building in response to the extension of the yellow lines. Nothing has changed in the meantime, so I'm on the point of realising I can't beat them, so I might as well join them....and screw everyone else who might want/need to park in my road.

Philip Slater ● 5178d

I started a very similar thread a year or so ago (will try to dig it out shortly), when these same lines were painted all around the Northfields area. And I even complained to the council, but got nowhere. Arriving back anytime after 6.30pm and you would end up parking miles away from home. The problem is exacerbated by the ridiculous amounts of legal (semi-legal & blatantly illegal) driveway conversions going on. Interesting to hear that it's all about the waste collection vehicles, especially since at the time those same vehicles are trying to do their rounds, pretty much every one of the junction double yellows are in use by parents dropping kids off to school.

Philip Slater ● 5178d

Yes this does seem to have become the normal practice.  Never sure how the bays improve the traffic flow nor support a potential hazard due to parked cars when it is ok to use them if you inforce a fine for not having a permit!!

Annie Roy ● 5178d

I am merely pointing out that the double yellows are part of a broader strategy to make life worse and more expensive for you :)Every year Ealing has to find new ways of justifying its traffic management budget. Back when they began installing humps, I found out how that worked. The formerly in-house traffic management team had set up Parkman Ltd, to provide outsourced services. Every year it was up to Parkman to propose a traffic management strategy for council approval.Traffic "calming" was justified apparently without any proper research. Where I live in W.Ealing, in the last 30 years there had been no accidents at all due to traffic speed, all accidents had been due to badly marked junctions plus one outside Oaklands school due to an idiot parent's illegal parking. My letter to the council pointing this out and asking for evidence in support of the proposal was ignored. Parkman got to build the humps at vast cost. The badly marked junctions were left untouched and accidents and near misses continued - one assumes because there is very little revenue in painting stop lines.So, whilst the double-yellows have a legitimate role in deterring obstruction near junctions, they also have a role in keeping the traffic management lot in profitable business going forward. Ealing has really run out of areas where CPZ's are an easy sell to residents, and make no mistake, CPZ's are valuable revenue generators - eg Lambeth makes £15m/year from them. So anything LBE can do to make parking more difficult for you is an investment in their future, at your expense.

Tony Sleep ● 5193d

That is how I started this thread !!!

James Green ● 5194d

They'll be along to propose a CPZ shortly. A brilliant wheeze, whereby you get charged for the privilege of parking in bays during daytime when there's plenty of space, and ticketed at 8.01am because there weren't enough bays to park in overnight.

Tony Sleep ● 5194d

Also, and unfortunately, the Highway Code is a best-practice guise. It is only advisory, i.e. NOT an Act of Law.

William J Malmet ● 5195d

Er... You have omitted the fact that this only applies to class A and C roads and not to residential non classified streets.

Michael Brandt ● 5195d

A shame the council has to resort to lines to enforce this. Parking on or near corners makes is so much harder for pulling out and entering roads and crossing by them by foot too.In fact highway code 243 specifically mentions parking on corners, although I am still looking for the rule saying you MUST be able to park within view of your house:243DO NOT stop or park•near a school entrance•anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services•at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank•on the approach to a level crossing or tramway crossing•opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space•near the brow of a hill or hump bridge•opposite a traffic island or (if this would cause an obstruction) another parked vehicle•where you would force other traffic to enter a tram lane•where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles•in front of an entrance to a property•on a bend•where you would obstruct cyclists’ use of cycle facilitiesexcept when forced to do so by stationary traffic.

Norma Harrison ● 5196d

Sorry to say but the safety of customers crossing roads had absolutely nothing to do with the instigation of these double yellow lines on corners. I had a chat with someone employed by the environment services operation of the council and he told me that they put them down where parked up corners make it to difficult for the garbage trucks to turn onto the street. Sensible, but lets face it when health and safety is used as an excuse it is just that.

William J Malmet ● 5197d

Phil Taylor did an interesting piece on his blog some time back on the increase in the car population in Ealing. See herehttp://philtaylor.org.uk/2009/01/cars-cars-everywhere/There are more cars on the roads now. So if you take away parking, when there is more demand, you will have more problems. Pedestrians need to be able to cross safely at junctions, so there is a case for putting yellow lines at corners, but you don't have to travel far to find examples where the council has put in more than is needed, without considering the problems that James raised originally.

Colm Costello ● 5197d

the council is relentless  set to change the behaviour of the public.It will be very hard to reverse once changed.There is going to be a knock on effect on local shops and motoring industry and NHS will have a burden to deal with people who are too scared to get a life.One Government comes in encouraging owning vehicles and the the next punishing with punitive actions.

Paul Virdee ● 5198d

And who grants the planning permission? Pedestrians were already protected by the dropped kerbs which were policed very heavily by the traffic wardens.

James Brown ● 5199d

So a month or two of living with the new double yellow lines.......they don't seem to have improved traffic flow in any way and they are ignored by drivers during the day and not enforced it would seem by the council.....and I can no longer even get a perking space in my own street in the evening, let alone near my house..Many thanks to the Council and all involved in this fiasco...-----------------------I suspect it was more to do with improving pedestrian access than traffic flowI don't think its the Council's fault that there are too many cars for too few spaces, James. Has your street got a lot of former houses converted to flats? If you consider that each building has maybe one and a half spaces in front of it at best, some of these buildings will have up to four cars, maybe more. The issue is with property developers, not the Council. The Council are there to enforce the (bye)laws (by painting lines if necessary)

Jeremy Hanson ● 5199d

So a month or two of living with the new double yellow lines.......they don't seem to have improved traffic flow in any way and they are ignored by drivers during the day and not enforced it would seem by the council.....and I can no longer even get a perking space in my own street in the evening, let alone near my house..Many thanks to the Council and all involved in this fiasco...

James Green ● 5200d

A crash helmet is a safety device required by law, not a uniform.The specified uniform is a cap not a crash helmet.A fixed penalty under the road traffic act on the public highway can only be issued following certain protocol. This involves the issuer to reveal a full descriptive identity, face eyes and hair etc.This is one reason why tickets issued by cameras are on this ice and may well get restricted by the european court. They are already deemed a breach of human rights in of all places 22 states of The USA!

Michael Brandt ● 5235d

"Also a warden must by law remove his crash helmet to issue a penalty"That depends on how the local council have defined the uniform that their CEOs must wear.  Are you saying that Ealing's definition excludes the wearing of helmets, or are you just repeating an urban myth?  There is nothing in national legislation, nor in the DfT guidance, that says anything specific about CEOs' hats or helmets.

Richard Jennings ● 5235d

Not fully, but think down the lines of vulnerable people desperate to work, iffy credentials and gangmaster type methods all wrapped in a shiny ISO approved business and your warm.----------------------isn't outsourcing marvellous.......

Jeremy Hanson ● 5235d

Not fully, but think down the lines of vulnerable people desperate to work, iffy credentials and gangmaster type methods all wrapped in a shiny ISO approved business and your warm.

Michael Brandt ● 5236d

Michael, why "too controversial to put here"? It sounds like you're implying they're working illegally.

Alex Weel ● 5236d

That's very interesting Michael.Thanks for the info.

Keith Iddon ● 5236d

Easiest way to deal with the wardens...photograph them. Totally legal in the street and they hate it and will stay away.The reason why they don't want to be photographed...too controversial to put here. and even more worrying for their employers.This works 100% in Camden Hackney and Westminster where we do this all the time now.Also a warden must by law remove his crash helmet to issue a penalty in exactly the same way that a police office must have his hat on and a traffic cop his white cap on to issue a notice.If you photograph a ticket being issued and he/she has a crash helmet on or thier face is covered then the ticket is not legally issued.A photograph is proof.

Michael Brandt ● 5236d

You could have turned a 747 around at the end of our road last night - 4 three quarter length car spaces plus 5 metres of yellow lines - room for 6 to 8 normal cars. A few days in and already starting to see peoples frustrations on their return from work and plenty of ticket wielding moped drivers!

James Brown ● 5236d

London Fire appliances were regulated to specific dimensions until recently when    politicians started meddling with things and creating 'market forces' thus Fire appliances had short wheelbases and a maximum width. This simple edict was to ensure the vehicles could access most London Streets. The obvious exceptions were turntable ladders and simon snorkel lifts which were specialist appliances.All that has gone out of the window and now new vehicles do not meet the criteria and so we have problems in many streets. So purely to suit those who now make a profit from such 'improvements', Residential streets have to have over the top restrictions placed on corners.

Michael Brandt ● 5241d

In quiet and narrow streets 60 feet plus of yellow lines is absurd. The parking of large vehicles on corners should be a byelaw offence with teeth. Locals would soon be willing to police that.

George Knox ● 5241d

You are correct.CPZ to follow...watch this space

James Green ● 5241d

It doesn't seem James has much empathy on this issue

Sam Salisbury ● 5241d

Probably not many people who don't have cars !!!

James Green ● 5241d

What about them.Skips are a temporary inconvenience. Disableparking spaces are normally only 'awarded' to those who cannot or who are barely able to walk.It is, in you opinion, unfortunate that you have been inconvinienced by yellow lines preventing you parking inconsiderately. I wonder how many emapthise with you?

Nigel Brooks ● 5241d

What about skips and the ever growing number of Disabled spaces....

James Green ● 5241d

What it is really about is a forthcoming introduction of extra long wheelbase vehicles.........-----------------That is a very good point. If you have cars parked right up to the end of all junctions of a crossroads, how would a fire engine turn left to get to a fire?

Jeremy Hanson ● 5241d

This actually applies only to roads with a classification. This does not apply to unclassified roads which are in general  lit residential roads.There are no pre requisite parameters for lengths of yellow lines around junctions or corners. In fact, practical common sense can be applied, One light van space either side of the apex is enough to keep the area clear for field of view for both pedestrian and road users as well as adequate access for pedestrians, wheelchairs and longer vehicles.What it is really about is a forthcoming introduction of extra long wheelbase vehicles for refuse and recycling and the incoming contractors deployment of such vehicles.  This is a result of heavy insurance claims for damage caused by these vehicles being too long for narrow streets.

Michael Brandt ● 5241d

Although not the law, the common sense of the Highway Code should prevail (no closer than 10 metres from a juction).---------------------------Between sunset and sunrise all motor vehicles parked on a road must be parked with the nearside of the vehicle as near to the kerb as possible and the vehicle cannot be parked within 10m of a junction without any lights on.There are exceptions,    Parking within 10 metres of a junction with lights on    Parking on a one way street    Vehicles dropping off or picking up passengers    Vehicles connected with emergency services    Vehicles connected with building work, repairs to road, cars, sewers, gas pipes etcIf the road does not have a 30mph limit then parking lights must be used when parking a vehicle in the hours of darkness.A heavy goods vehicle (over 7.5 tonnes) must be lit and must not cause an obstruction if parked on a road during the hours of darkness.A failure to comply with these rules will lead to a fixed penalty notice being issued.

Jeremy Hanson ● 5241d

Get real

James Green ● 5241d

SAam, it's not just wheelchair users and those with small children important as these improvements are to them.It is the inconsiderate who park right on the corners who make pulling out from these roads a nightmare and make it difficult for drivers of larger and emergency vehicles to negotiate the 'narrowed' corners.Although not the law, the common sense of the Highway Code should prevail (no closer than 10 metres from a juction).

Nigel Brooks ● 5241d

Thank you Ealing Council for improving the quality of life of wheelchair users and people with small children. They now stand a marginally better chance of being able to use the lowered pavements near junctions and their sight lines to see oncoming traffic may now extend beyond the large car in front of their face.

Sam Salisbury ● 5241d

They must have a target list of similar names as they have done the same to me :). Not content with marking the corner they have painted the white line 5 metres down the road. At least it wont be raining for the next 5 months when you park up and try to remember how to get back to your house.

James Brown ● 5241d