Forum Topic

Will fly tipping increase after £40 garden charge introduced

At last nights Overview and Scrutiny Committee, I asked Cllr Mahfouz if he expected fly tipping to increase when he starts to charge residents who do the responsible thing and recycle their garden waste £40 a year to take away their garden waste every two weeks, for 11 months of the year. He said that there was no evidence at all that residents would put their garden waste into black sacks because they don't want to pay £40 for something they have been getting for free for  the last 4 years. We all know that if you put garden waste into our black sacks, it won't be taken away and will sit on our footpaths for days before it is classed as a fly tip and taken away at great expense to the council taxpayer. Am I on my own in believing that fly tipping of garden waste will become a problem like it was when the council last charged to have our garden waste taken away.

Colm Costello ● 5300d17 Comments

Hmm when is food waste and garden waste the same?

Philippa Bond ● 5293d

George,Do you also plan to dictate exactly what people have in their gardens as well as to often they cut their lawns? I do not have beds for my grass cuttings...

James Brown ● 5294d

I didnt say I'd put grass cuttings in blk bags i said most people will. I said I'd put my plastics in my black bags when the new box is full. But no i dont have flower beds and very little grass, whats all this about socialists asking you to look after your own garden??? This is about removing rubbish and wether we already pay enough for these services. I think we do!

Marie Shelly ● 5294d

Why will you put your grass cuttings into a bag? Have you no flower beds at all?I don't cut the grass too often so as to keep the grass area more damp. I spread my cuttings around the beds and sometimes the pots. I put cuttings into a compost bin. Compost 6-9 months later is really good for your garden.Keeps weeds down - so less bending. Keeps soil from drying so quickly so I use less water. Worms like the damp and make compacted soil more friable. Roots like friable rather than rock hard dry soil.  Cuttings probably give a little nutrient back into your fairly sterile soil.For those who wish to work Mother Nature to their advantage the Socialists are are asking you to take responsibility for your garden yourself. Unusual for a Nanny but in this case partly a good move for those who are prepared to explore gardening techniques.I think skips should be put in the streets for 10 days in the late Autumn and in the Spring. These would be used for non compostible materials e.g pruned branches etc.

George Knox ● 5294d

People will mix a couple of carrier bags of grass cuttings in with the regular black bags and when this new plastic waste bin is full they will put the rest in the regular black refuse bags (thats what I'll do), so the council will just be collecting more black sacks and less and less recycling.

Marie Shelly ● 5294d

Whilst I agree, I think this sort of thing is endemic to career bureaucracies irrespective of which party happens to be nominally in control. Managers, officers, will advocate what is in their personal and departmental interests, which is not necessarily the same thing as what is in residents interests.

Tony Sleep ● 5294d

No Council service is 'Free'. It is paid for by council taxpayers.In the same way some may use one service and others may use another service but it must be quite rare that any one council taxpayer uses all the services.Of course it is a an increase and a tax on those with gardens in the same way the CPZ 'service to residents' has become a money making machine. Something that this Labour adminsistration's labour predecessors went to length to assure residents that this would never be the case.Inept management and probably a whiff of corruption in these 'behind the scenes' deals

Michael Brandt ● 5294d

We seem to hear this incessantly, that some part of a budgeted service is deemed to have formerly been "free", and henceforth chargeable additionally. Everybody shamelessly plays this sleight of hand, from banks to HMG. And then they wonder why people regard them with contempt.So let's be clear, this is a covert £40 Council Tax increase, in the middle of an historic economic recession. Of course it will increase bloody fly tipping (and bonfires in contravention of the Clean Air Act); what other option is available to people who are already struggling to make ends meet? Keeping goats?

Tony Sleep ● 5294d

Scrutiny? If you want proper scrutiny, you certainly won't get it under this administration.There was a time (2006-2010) when reports regarding council policies and draft documents for new contracts came to the Overview and scrutiny committee before they were brought to Cabinet. It was a time when impartiality and common sense prevailed among the members of the committee, rather than just following party lines; when officers where told to come back with proper and completed answers to questions posed at the meeting. It did not matter if a policy or contract had to be delayed, what matter then was that policies/contracts were sound and would benefit first of all our rate-payers as well as the council.  Scrutiny did matter then to an administration that wanted to be open and transparent. It was there not to ‘rubber stamp’ the administration decisions but to held officers and portfolio holders to account.Those times are now over. By regain control of the council this administration think they have been given a mandate to do whatever they want in the manner that they want regardless of whether their policies or decisions make sense or not. One thing is certain: if there is one thing that they hate is to be 'scrutinised’. 

Rosa Popham ● 5297d

Take a drive and a short walk around Richmond, Sheen, Mortlake, Kingston and New Malden.There are piles of bags stashed in alleyways, by trees and shops.  A closer look reveals a mix of waste and garden waste.Of course, no new statistics, facts or figures exist as it will cost as much as the savings to compile such.  One only has to apply common sense and recall what happened previously. This will simply  return and the cost of clearing mess by stealth will be incurred. In the end the savings will be miniscule.What galls me is the belief that this administration are going to get a good deal when they have not researched factors that will cost money in the long run from the fallabities of changing contracts. Cllr Mahfouz states just 25% use the garden waste service, but what does that mean? 25% of all council tax addresses? or 25% of all addresses with some sort of garden?From his previous highly cooked statistics over parking permit charges, I think we already know what the answer is. These statistics are devoid of fact and practicality which is where creativity and wisdom can be factored in to solve problems. Something glaringly devoid with this council and previous ones. Student style Party politics and naivenessseem to dominate. I hope that's just all it is.I would like to know what proportion of total residences use the food recycling.If you look at the split, with garden waste, plastics bottles and cans, cardboard and paper now separated for recycling, not so long ago most of this was all going in the black bag.  So what's left to go into the black bag? Not much apart from disposable nappies.Unlike Garden waste which has a profitable reuse,Just one disposable nappy does more harm to the environment than 2000 miles in a car. Hazardous, difficult to dispose and if flushed down the loo costs a fortune in blocked drains and sewerage recovery operations.Maybe a charge for nappy collection would be better as no return can be gained from those. and that would only be temporary for most households.It is obvious that the black bag collection could be reduced to bi weekly without a huge rise in capacity.If they had concentrated on a better means of storage for the smaller collection of black bags rather than the rather impractical big box with a hairnet for plastics then savings could be made on landfill charges alone.Stouter black bags or a hessian type bag to place black bags into would have been better.Yet again, all the indications are that the council have signed up a contract without knowing what options exist, could be creted or even what methods or track record the contract company has. Rather like Hounslow managed when getting "a great long term deal' for maintaining it's parks, only it turned out clearing leaves and sweeping the paths wasn't in the contract!This is why clear and open scrutiny is so important. Councillors/politcians and officials just cannot be relied on anymore to get it right.

Michael Brandt ● 5298d

BobYou don't have to look at othert boroughs for evidence of increased fly tipping when you charge to take away someones garden waste. In Ealing, when residents were charged 50p for one pink sack of garden waste, there was plenty fly tipping of garden waste That was one of the reasons we abolished the charge and introduced a weekly collection because garden waste was not collected every week back then in 2007. The result was, almost no fly tipping of garden waste at all and a huge increase in the numbers of people recycling garden waste. Now we are going back to charging for a service and delivering the service less often. there will be 22 collection days in a year under the new service which you will pay £40pa for compared to 52 collection days in the year now where there is no extra charge. It is not unreasonable or hysterical to predict that this change to the service will result in more fly tipping than exists currently. When you see black sacks full of garden waste on your road for days on end, it won't take long to work out how that happened Bob.

Colm Costello ● 5299d

I've read that other boroughs have introduced similar schemes.Is there any hard evidence (not hysterical conjecture please) that there has been an increase in garden waste flytipping?

Bob Roberts ● 5299d

One things for sure, They have managed to succeed at two things.1. To be completely un re-electable2.To give the Borough wholesale to the Tories.They have done a better job at convincing me to vote conservative than any PR or  publicity campaign by the tories have ever managed.

Michael Brandt ● 5299d

ColmThe 'bombard Julian' idea is sound.Perhaps it is worthy of a "Scrutiny" thread of its own rather than be buried in this one.I have this recurring nightmare that 'Julian and the boys' will be in office and wreaking havoc for another two and a half years - tell me it isn't true!

Nigel Brooks ● 5299d

George, MichaelThursday night at Overview and Scrutiny was not a good night for Ealing Scrutiny and for once it wasn't the chairs fault. Cllr Mahfouz came to talk about the Coalitions cuts that were being forced on this poor Labour council who have the best intentions in the world. So many questions about the new service went unanswered, that you were left with the impression that they really could not gove a toss about scrutiny of their policies. You ignore Scrutiny at your peril. If you refuse to expose your policies to scrutiny, you come up with policies that look daft and when implemented have a negative impact on residents lives. The new recycling arrangments will not improve recycling in the borough and will most likely slow down or reverse the increased recycling and participation rate increases we saw over the previous 5 years. The new garden waste arrangments will now be implemented from April next year. The new plastics recycling arrangements have still to be agreed, so if you don't want your white canvas sack replaced with a green box that comes with a seperate hairnet that you have to tie onto it securely and that only holds half of what the canvas sack held and costs £160k to replace for no good reason, then start bombarding the leader of the council with emails at julian.bell@ealing.gov.uk asap

Colm Costello ● 5300d

No Evidence indeed. The answer of a naive fool.It will go back to how it was. Bags of stuff dumped outside others properties or by street trees or in alleyways. Just as it was for years.What did get discussed last night?

Michael Brandt ● 5300d

Of course not and as you know politicians have, do, and will continue to make very stupid decisions based on dreams rather than reality.You have made a lot about this issue and fair enough. But apart from the fly tipping you have failed to tell us what went on that meeting.Why?

George Knox ● 5300d