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JohnFirst of all in reply to your sentence:"You should learn to listen to people and not be so intent on dictating to others." In a democracy, it is normally the wish of the majority that prevails not the other way around. Who would you rather listen to: nearly 70% of over 2,000+ local residents that responded to a consultation in favour of the skate park located in Elthorne Park or the just over 30% that were against? Also don't forget the subsequent petions signed again by local residents one in favour (850+ signatures) against just over 200. If you were a politician I would expect that you would side up with the majority and not with the more vocal minority. Also this was the preferred location of the West Ealing skate club as most of its members came from around that area. Gurnell may be slightly closer to the main road, but it is also much closer to residential properties than Elthorne would have been - guidelines for this particular facility dictates that there should be at least 200 metres separation gap between it and residential units, and clearly this seems to have been overlooked.Also Elthorne Park does not have in its door-steps three large estates one of which is well known for its drug related problems. Hence the concern of the local councillors to the lack of consultation with the police is, I believe, more than founded.Finally if we have to stop or avoid building facilities, whether for the young of for the old, in parks, playing fields or recreation grounds that are close or near to where people live then, especially in London, we would have no recreation facilities at all. Unless you are suggesting that all local councillors ought to live next to a park, playing fields or recreation grounds!

Rosa Popham ● 5282d

JOHN,I believe this is what you may refers to:"The council have carried out a limited consultation on the proposed skate park in Gurnell Grove. Although they talk about this as a borough facility they only consulted people living in the immediate area. More importantly the Labout council went ahead with this without consulting the police. A well run skate park in the right place is an asset. However if they are in the wrong area, they can easily attract drug dealers and other undesirables. Your Conservative Councillors are concerned about this aspect and believe that the police should have been involved from day one."I just cannot see what is so controversial with my husband comments. Whether in Garnell or Elthorne Park, where incidentally we did consult and took advice from the police prior and during the design of the original skate park, the location does not matter, it is the principle that count.As I have already said in my last post to you the local police team should have be consulted as a matter of course right from the beginning so that they could have adviced where best to install a facility, where in the site, and what measures should have been taken to deter and prevent anti-social behaviour such as drug dealing, graffiti and vandalism.  Perhaps CCTV cameras, flood-lights, in a position that can be clearly seen from main road rather than be hidden behind a car park, trees or hedges and so on.  The skate park in Harrow, tacked in at the back of the swimming pool, did have these sorts of problems and we used to stay with our young son whenever we took him there.  However it was one of the first one in London and lessons have been learned since then as to make these facilities safer and prevent this sort fo things from happening. After all, don't we all want our children to use facilities and play somewhere we know that they are safe as these have been given the 'seal of approval' by the local police? I hope that next time the council will involve and consult with the police right away as I believe that prevention is better than the cure.

Rosa Popham ● 5292d

John,I am not sure what you are trying to say or prove. I may live in Cleveland but Hobbayne is the area I represented in the council from 2006 to 2010 and where local residents asked us for more children and youth facilities.As for the everywhere else in the borough, the list will be too long.  However, if you really want to know,  as  resident you are entitled to  put a Freedom of Information request to the council of how much money has been allocated, and where, by the previous Conservative administration for Ealing’s youths and children facilities. As for your reference to Elthorne Park being a small park, a park that can accommodate 15,000 people and a fair ground during the Hanwell carnival, cannot, in my opinion be called ‘small’. I would also like to remind you that it is integral part of the Brent Valley River Park, one of the largest open parkland and open space in London.The decision to stop the skate park being built in Elthorne park was a political one. How else could you justify this decision which had a 70%  response in favour of it in an extensive  public consultation and backed up with a petition of over 800 signatures, compared with another petition that only had about 300 signatures against it?With regards to what there is in my own back yard the answer is: we live right next to Trailfinders Sport Club – ex British rail sport club.  Hundreds if not, at times, thousands of people of all ages use this facility on a weekly basis and not just for its sport or recreation facilities, but also for social and corporate events and private functions.  Despite the traffic, parking, noise and so on problem associated with any successful club, and contrary to some of our neighbours, we have never objected to any of the various planning applications to expand facilities on this site since Trailfinders took it over. In fact it is great to see and hear so many people enjoying themselves.The many advantages for those of us who are fortunate enough to live next to an open space (whether public gardens, playing fields, recreation or sports grounds and so on) far outstrip the disadvantages. If people want peace and quiet then they should not move right next to them.These areas are for public use, for everyone to enjoy them (and this include teenagers) and should not be considered extensions of our own back gardens.In response to your last point, again you are putting words in my husband's mouth. To consult the local police and seek their advice and comments should be the norm - or at least was the norm in any consultations done by the previous administration - and it is regarded as good practice, espcially so when we consider putting in a brand new facility that has been the subject of so much controversy. Who knows the area better than the people who police it?

Rosa Popham ● 5294d

John,I am not sure what you are trying to say or prove. I may live in Cleveland but Hobbayne is the area I represented in the council from 2006 to 2010 and where local residents asked us for more children and youth facilities.As for the everywhere else in the borough, the list will be too long.  However, if you really want to know,  as  resident you are entitled to  put a Freedom of Information request to the council of how much money has been allocated, and where, by the previous Conservative administration for Ealing’s youths and children facilities. As for your reference to Elthorne Park being a small park, a park that can accommodate 15,000 people and a fair ground during the Hanwell carnival, cannot, in my opinion be called ‘small’. I would also like to remind you that it is integral part of the Brent Valley River Park, one of the largest open parkland and open space in London.The decision to stop the skate park being built in Elthorne park was a political one. How else could you justify this decision which had a 70%  response in favour of it in an extensive  public consultation and backed up with a petition of over 800 signatures, compared with another petition that only had about 300 signatures against it?With regards to what there is in my own back yard the answer is: we live right next to Trailfinders Sport Club – ex British rail sport club.  Hundreds if not, at times, thousands of people of all ages use this facility on a weekly basis and not just for its sport or recreation facilities, but also for social and corporate events and private functions.  Despite the traffic, parking, noise and so on problem associated with any successful club, and contrary to some of our neighbours, we have never objected to any of the various planning applications to expand facilities on this site since Trailfinders took it over. In fact it is great to see and hear so many people enjoying themselves.The many advantages for those of us who are fortunate enough to live next to an open space (whether public gardens, playing fields, recreation or sports grounds and so on) far outstrip the disadvantages. If people want peace and quiet then they should not move right next to them.These areas are for public use, for everyone to enjoy them (and this include teenagers) and should not be considered extensions of our own back gardens.In response to your last point, again you are putting words in my husband's mouth. To consult the local police and seek their advice and comments should be the norm - or at least was the norm in any consultations done by the previous administration - and it is regarded as good practice, espcially so when we consider putting in a brand new facility that has been the subject of so much controversy. Who knows the area better than the people who police it?

Rosa Popham ● 5294d

If whatever money is spent in refurbishing Walpole Park (which I believe will complement the refurbishment of the Pitzhanger Manor) will attract more people into Ealing then, it can only be to Ealing’s traders’ advantage as well as its residents.As far as our young people is concerned, especially if aged 10 and over, you are right in saying that unfortunately some of our residents think that they are all vandals, drug and alcohol addicts, and all inclined to antisocial behaviour. The sentence all too often heard is: we agree that young people need facilities and we are not against multigame areas, play areas, skate parks and so on, it is just that we don’t want them in our back garden.  Just think of all the fuss we had in Elthorne for the skate park and few years back in Hobbayne for installing a now well used MUGA. Here, incidentally, very recently all labour members of the planning committee refused the council own application for an enhanced play area that would have catered for older children (up to 12!). The same mind-set can be applied for planning applications –whether are schools, factories, industrial units, housing developments, proposed rail projects, etc. etc.  People just do not like change especially if this happens to be in their back yard.Finally, as dictated by the London Plan, a block of flats in the D.Y. development is earmarked for social housing. As for the rest, I personally don’t care who is going to buy them. However I believe that I may not be the only one who would like to swap the family home for a flat, right in the middle of a town centre, when the time will come that one is no longer able get up the stairs, drive and look after the garden.

Rosa Popham ● 5299d

..though quite how I cannot fathom.  Wealth generation for the developer?  Possibly but I have my doubts about that.  Wealth generation for the borough?  I have my doubts about that too.When St George held a public open day in the Town Hall four/five years ago, with their dinky scale models of Dickens Yard, I went to have a look with a friend of mine who also lives in Ealing.  The architect was standing by the model so she asked him who, exactly, did he think was going to buy a 3-bedroom apartment in this development?  Most people do not need 3 bedrooms unless they have children and most people with children want a house with a garden, not a high-rise flat with a terrace.  He couldn't answer.I commented that I thought the retail units would remain largely empty as the rents would be extortionate.  If Westfield (which then wasn't open but was on the event horizon) was going to drag High Street branches out of Ealing and the rents were too high in the shopping centre for individual traders, who would be left to take up the Dickens Yard units?  He didn't have an answer for that either and there's no reason why he should. Bear in mind, this was literally years ago, way before the current economic disaster but back when property prices were so high that it was becoming impossible for ordinary people to buy in Ealing and the shop units were already emptying because of the greed of Legal & General and the general rabbit-in-the-headlights stance of the local traders and centre management and council officers.  They could see the Westfield juggernaut approaching and couldn't think how to respond to it.Clearly, St George's timing with this development was poor then and I would say bordering on the financially insane now but projects of this size cannot be halted on a sixpence so they have had to go ahead with the build.  Some flats will be sold because there are still people around with a great deal of money and it will suit their needs.  Some will be inhabited because the Council have bought them and will rehouse tenants there who give up council properties with several bedrooms.  Some of the units may even be let though I would hazard that the economy would need to be pretty robustly healthy to make a unit off the beaten track and at the Longfield Avenue end of things look enticing to a trader.  How this translates into generating wealth for ANYONE - St George's included - I cannot comprehend.  And Eric is right: that amount of money to restore Walpole Park to it's original glories is downright obscene and in my view totally and utterly pointless.  Does anyone give a damn what the park originally looked like?  I care what it looks like NOW and some decent toilet facilities and a visible park ranger presence would be a better use of the money.

Allison Franklin ● 5299d

Arthur,The 140 plus parks and open spaces that we are so privileged to have in our borough, is what makes Ealing London’s ‘queen of the suburbs’. Walpole park is at the heart of Ealing and it is the most used of all out parks. As such is the one that needs the most maintenance – and that requires money! Town centres should be places where people live, as well as work and play. How many town centres have been wrecked and become ghost town once restaurants and pubs close down for the evening?As for swimming pools, concert halls, etc. etc. these are all facilities that do not generate money. On the contrary they use it and absorb it in vast amount. Besides, where would you get the money to finance all this? Perhaps, with a huge increase in our council rates? How many residents would be prepared to accept this increase in order to build and maintaining them, considering that not all of us will be interested in making use of these facilities? What Ealing is desperate for is housing (all kind and sizes of housing and tenure so that the 30something kids can move out from their parents’ home into a place of their own); schools for our kids so that they don’t have to travel out of the borough; and attract more businesses that will provide local jobs for Ealing residents.  Let’s generate wealth first, before thinking of how to spend it. This is what has got this country in such a mess and I would have thought that by now all of us would have learned a lesson from all of this.

Rosa Popham ● 5300d