Forum Topic

The referendum

Am I right in thinking that the AV (didn't this used to be called PR?) vote will be won or lost using the first past the post system?

viv ellis ● 5462d14 Comments

A theorem (proved by Allan Gibbard and Mark Satterthwaite) tells us that, if there are three or more candidates, any voting system which is not a dictatorship and which allows the possibility of any candidate winning, is susceptible to tactical voting.So the common assertion – on both the Electoral Reform Society and the Yes! to Fairer Votes web pages – that AV "eliminates the need for tactical voting", is false.There is a celebrated theorem proved by Kenneth Arrow which can be stated with a shocking simplicity: "No fair voting system exists if there are three or more parties". At its heart is a subtlety which arises when combining the orders of preference of individual voters. These orderings have the simple-sounding property that if a voter prefers A to B and also prefers B to C, then the voter prefers A to C.FPTP, AV, PR or Tom & Jerry: the result is that nobody will be happy if their candidate does not win.

Ben Owen ● 5459d

I don't want first past the post and I don't like AV either.  I want PR.Guess I'm back to the usual old situation I face when voting in this country - which is the least worst?Depressing.

Allison Franklin ● 5459d

Both campaigns have been awful but the No campaign is worse.

Susan Kelly ● 5459d

the no leaflet was just mind numbingly awful. if that is what the best political brains can come up with and also their view of joe public then god help us. i am undecided on what to vote for but the no leaflet made me want to vote yes. it was insulting and badly put together. as for the yes leaflet there was that interpretation of a london view and a wider country view but before you criticise celebrity selection just try and ready the no one.

Peter Chadburn ● 5459d

At least they (the No campaigners) haven't edited out black people from the copies going to the shires, unlike the 'Yes' leaflets which replaced Benjamin Zephahiah with Tony 'Baldrick' Robinson outside London; ostensibly because they had 'too many celebrities' for a consistent national leaflet.

Nigel Brooks ● 5459d

Has anyone seen the election leaflets for the no campaign. they must be the worst political leaflets ever produced!!!

Peter Chadburn ● 5459d

The constituencies would have to be larger; for example, you could have a constituency five times the size of current ones, which would return five MPs, according to their share of the vote.

Susan Kelly ● 5459d

...how true Proportional Representation rather than AV can be used with constituencies? I don't really understand it. Thanks

Penny Crocker ● 5460d

As I have already explained, any vote with only two candidates, in this case Yes & No, will perforce be first past the post.Are you suggesting that Hislop did not intend it as a joke on what is supposed to be a comedy programme?

Susan Kelly ● 5460d

what joke?just a statement of fact

Bob Roberts ● 5460d

This tired 'joke' has been made by about a million people already.

Susan Kelly ● 5461d

Watched 'Have I Got News For you?' then - :-) as Iain Hislop made exactly the same point.

Nigel Brooks ● 5461d

AV is not PR. Preferential does not mean proportional.

Bob Roberts ● 5461d

As will every other vote with only two candidates.

Susan Kelly ● 5462d