Forum Topic

March against the Cuts, 26th March

Don't know how many other posters on here went on the march but I was there and it was peaceful and relaxed with hardly any police presence for long stretches of the route.  My union, UNISON, had a huge presence there as did UNITE and the GMB but there were also people demonstrating against the planned dismantling of the NHS, the closure of Sure Start Centres, the destruction of the library service, the youth service and just about every other service you can think of.At present, the media spotlight is firmly on the anarchists who have lit a bonfire at Oxford Circus or occupied Fortnum and Mason.  The REAL story is that approximately 450,000 people demonstrated against the coalition's plan for cuts. I am sure Cameron and Clegg are not quaking in their boots tonight but it was heartening to see so many people committed to showing the coalition how vehemently opposed we are to so many of their financial proposals.PS  Anyone who has been meaning to email their MP about the Health and Social Care Bill has until Wednesday to do so. 

Allison Franklin ● 5492d29 Comments

And the Conservatives of the previous Ealing Council were the cause of me putting my X in the Conservative box for the first time ever in my voting life. A pity more didnt do similarly, and we could have avoided some of this frontline slashing!

Steve Chilcott ● 5471d

It would have been so good if the public could have seen the cost benefit analysis of Ealing Homes coming back in house.Despite very many challenges Labour have continued to keep it hidden.Labour have done themselves no favours, and all they have done is to make themselves more suspicious and less trustworthy. Are they hiding a flawed case? Has the chief lawyer looked at what is going on?In my own opinion Mr Bell is showing more and more signs of weak leadership, and further signs of that have been seen during his attendance at the recent library meetings. He is upsetting the Unions and the elder labour councillors are shaking their heads or keeping a low profile.If he does not change he will not fare well in the history books of Ealing. Is that what he wants?

George Knox ● 5472d

The voice of common sense Ed.People may not like voting Conservative but they have demonstrable strengths in running things within budget, something that Labour have failed to do time and time again when in power.Dow e really hve to wait another three years for the whining to stop from the labout group and for a firm hand on the financial 'tiller' again?

Nigel Brooks ● 5472d

Steve, you're right that council is choosing where to make cuts. If the Labour Group hadn't made the absurd decision to bring Ealing Homes back in house the council wouldn't need to close any libraries at all. During the election the Labour Group claimed that bringing Ealing Homes would save money - an absurd claim rubbished by everyone else with a modicum of common sense. Since then they've spent £1m reducing desk space to squeeze in an extra 100 staff (costing a further £2.8m) into Perceval House.Having said all this, it's the people of Ealing who have themselves to blame. Collectively, they voted out an administration that had carefully costed plans and had recovered a £100m+ debt run up by the last Labour council. The last lot if nothing else were at least honest about what could be achieved within that. The fact that libraries will now close and other front line services cut is very much down to the number of people who fail to think before they vote - or challenge ludicrous claims by vote seeking politicians that things can be done for free.

Ed Yelland ● 5473d

On the subject of libraries - its our local council's decision what to cut, not the Governments, and I for one am not certain that the cuts could not come elsewhere with less impact on the public. On the subject of the NHS, current funding levels stand considerably higher than they did 10 years ago and I'm not sure we have benefitted from an equal measure of service improvements. These week's news on the economy (inflation down and unemployment down) might suggest that the Governement is getting it right.

Steve Chilcott ● 5473d

Steve I got there just before 6 and the march moved off later. Sorry I missed you. Around 60 in total. Those Coalition/Lansley/Bill supporters O. The pros never march. Us antis feel we have to. Are you a pro Steve? Because you might be the first one to surface. To be fair there were also some library supporters (sorry aren't we all library supporters?) mixed in with us National Health Service supporters.

Arthur Breens ● 5474d

Well there didn't appear to be much local support at all for the march from the Gatehouse at Ealing Hospital on Tuedsay 12th April. When I passed on the bus at 5:30 (the starting time) there couldn't have been more then 6 people. Their piles of placards looked quite unnecessary and pathetic!

Steve Chilcott ● 5474d

Arthur very true but labour has not given a view on all their previous nonsense. so who can be trusted?

Peter Chadburn ● 5475d

Yes Peter you are spot on. Since 2000 Labour started tinkering with the NHS. The dreaded PFI initiative was like buying new hospitals using a credit card at credit card rates. I understand Ealing does not have this problem but when it joins with Central Middlesex it will have to help pay back their big PFI debt from its funds. I take your point about Labour having zero credibility but the Coalition have a negative credibility. Labour may have "winged" the NHS but the Coalition will finish it off with this Bill. See Eric's thread. Parties change so our only hope is Labour.

Arthur Breens ● 5475d

Arthur, i just find the arguments of labour against nhs change a joke as many of the changes they wanted were worse. it is really hard as labour wanted to privatise the whole lot. Simon Steven's was Blair's main advisor when we had 24 hours to save the nhs. then he leads opposition in the states to obama's reforms. he works for united health and that is why labour have zero credibility on health now amongst many reasons such as pfi and private cherry picking of simple procedures.

Peter Chadburn ● 5476d

Ed I will try to dig out these comparisons from source documents. They will be better than the States which if this bill goes through is the sort of healthcare provision the Coalition is aiming at. My American researcher said that 30% there had no healthcare..sort of like a third world service embedded within the richest nation in the world.And those PFIs Peter. They are really going to come round and sting us. We'll continue to pay for these because there is no way out while at the same time cutting front line NHS staff. And these were perfected and multiplied by Gordon. What a disaster.

Arthur Breens ● 5476d

Part of the proposed reforms is to ensure that Clinicians drive decision making rather than management. The theory is great like many so called reforms. I worry about the detail. much of the investment in the NHS has gone in investment in PFI Contracts which is not investment but just very poor money management. Seeing Portugal go begging last night shows how irresponsible european governments including ours have been over the last 20 years or so. The best brains that oxbridge could turn out have been at the front of the bonkers economics of these years. the wisdom of the markets. william hill and paddypower show more understanding of basic economics that the city. we have to economise and stop throwing money around that we do not have. however my belief is that the delivery of essential services can be maintained. it is the methods and management of that delivery that are the fundamental issue. so do we blame the tories and libdems for telling us the bad news or the labour council for attacking the most vulnerable whilst wasting money on car parks!!

Peter Chadburn ● 5480d

Arthur, whilst Frimley is rated highly for patient experience - a testament to the hard work of its clinical staff,  the cancer outcomes at 1 and 5 years unfortunately aren't really comparable with the "best in the world". As with much of the NHS, the outcomes are pretty poor when you take into account the £billions of extra spending on cancer that has taken place over the last 10 years. Most NHS Trusts continue to deliver some of the worst cancer outcomes in Europe, largely because much of the extra "investment" was wasted and the NHS systemically fails to learn from and embed good practice in service delivery.

Ed Yelland ● 5481d

Wrong again. There is a pause for 2 months and not two weeks and Cameron hasn't sent Lansley off. He doesn't trust him so today he went with him to Frimley and took Cleggy along. In the Tory manifesto there was some reference to cancer rate comparisons from back in 2007. The implication being that the NHS needed overhauling because its cancer cure rates were low compared with other European countries.Luckily CL&C never mentioned that at Frimley where cancer recovery rates are some of the best in the world. Wow.

Arthur Breens ● 5481d

Well spotted Phil. But have YOU read the Tory manifesto?"PCT in black and white"?.... not on page 45 not on page 46 not on page 47 and the only other page was that diagram of cancer rates from 2007 that has been subsequently countered and "updated" by various authors using more recent figures and trends. There is considerable confusion now about what is in and what is out of this 367 page bill. The H&SC Bill committee chairman sounded quite upset in today's parlimentary debate about all the work he had to do with countless amendments. And there have been so many proposed amendments to this poorly thought through bill. So has Cameron sent Lansley off on a two week sales jolly round the country to try to sell the amended bill to the likes of Norman Tebbit et al because they haven't really understood it? Apart from our love of getting on bikes I never thought I'd be using him to support my case. Many of us who have felt driven to research this bill now find we understand the contents and their implications only too well.Forget all this. Importantly what is still in (well it was last Friday) is  the threat of privatisation for example to the National Blood Transfusion Service. While in many countries blood is harvested by financial incentive, which comes with many risks to the donor and recipient, the UK has a sustainable healthy system that avoids money altogether. It is vital altruistic relationships like this that are under threat from the H&SC Bill.Every day I find out more and the more I find out the more worried I become. Perhaps Phil can put me straight.

Arthur Breens ● 5483d

They tend to be from privileged backgrounds. though i remember several poll tax martyrs such as red dawn primarolo who then become persecuters of IT freelancers. The shame for Labour is that they have had too many silver spooners in control in recent years.

Peter Chadburn ● 5487d

No peter. Rioters go on to become labour ministers!

Barbara Yerolemou ● 5487d

American healthcare is not even particularly good; they have a shorter life expectancy they we do here and poorer quality of life in old age.

Susan Kelly ● 5490d

Councillor Taylor, thank you.  I was confused because you included information from the Lib Dem manifesto that has been swept aside by the Tories and so is no longer relevant.In fact, the Lib Dems are no longer relevant, full stop. Of course, the Tories didn't win a majority either, so they don't have a mandate for any of the current legislation under debate; they are in office because they are being propped up by the Lib Dems.Interestingly, one part of the change for the NHS that Cameron was very open about was the scrapping of the Stragic Health Authorities which is happening as we speak.  Anyone who has been around the NHS long enough can see what will happen in the medium-term:  GP consortia will co-operate across boundaries in the purchasing of health care and eventually all the London consortia will be group themselves into larger geographically based bodies (hello District Health Authorities) who will then realise that it might be a good idea to think about the needs of Londoners and purchase pan-London services (hello Strategic Health Authority).  In other words, more bloody public money wasted by dismantling something that worked reasonably well in the first place and then more money wasted putting together a new system which then morphs back into the old one.  And why?  Because health is a political football and Lansley wants his name in lights.  So much for Cameron and his 'no more top down reorganisation'.  It's EXACTLY what is going on in the health service right now.

Allison Franklin ● 5490d

Alison,The LibDems did not win the election.  In the coalition negotiation the Tory approach won out.  The point I was trying to make that the future of the way we do health was very much in play at the last election and Arthur's assertion that it is all a surprise does not hold water.

Phil Taylor ● 5490d

Empowering local communities to improve health services through elected Local Health Boards, which will take over the role of Primary Care Trust boards in commissioning care for local people, working in co-operation with local councils. Over time, Local Health Boards should be able to take on greater responsibility for revenue and resources to allow local people to fund local services which need extra money.----------------------------I don't understand this part of the quotation from the Lib Dem manifesto.  What elected Local Health Boards are they talking about?  PCTs are being replaced by local consortia, aren't they, to commission on behalf of the local populace?  The consortia are not elected.  My guess is that they will be management companies employed by the GPs to do the work on their behalf.Councillor Taylor, could you explain this to me please?

Allison Franklin ● 5490d

The issue under Labour was that they were enthusiastic privatisers but in the end just created more beauracracy. The bean counters required to operate such mechanisms wil naturally lead to an increase in costs. we end up with a healthcare system like america where the average person is terrified of what will happen to them if they get ill. They may get cured but after that their premiums go up and up. The sad thing is that the public have no choice as the politicians all come from the consulting background that believes in these so called internal markets

Peter Chadburn ● 5490d

Arthur,You clearly have not read the manifestos.  All three essentially talked about continuing in a direction of travel which was set by the previous government in health towards more local involvement in decision making and a greater plurality of providers.  The Tories said in black and white that PCTs would be replaced by GP commissioning:“We will strengthen the power of GPs as patients’ expert guides through the health system by putting them in charge of commissioning local health services.”They also clearly talked about any willing provider:“So we will give every patient the power to choose any healthcare provider that meets NH S standards, within NHS prices.  This includes independent, voluntary and community sector providers.”The LibDems also talked of getting rid of PCTs and allowing a wide range of providers:“Empowering local communities to improve health services through elected Local Health Boards, which will take over the role of Primary Care Trust boards in commissioning care for local people, workingin co-operation with local councils. Over time, Local Health Boards should be able to take on greater responsibility for revenue and resources to allow local people to fund local services which needextra money.Giving Local Health Boards the freedom to commission services for local people from a range of different types of provider, including for example staff co-operatives, on the basis of a level playing field in any competitive tendering – ending any current bias in favour of private providers.”

Phil Taylor ● 5490d

Neither Tory nor Lib-Dem manifestos contained even an inkling of the radical changes proposed to the NHS in Lansley's Health and Social Care Bill. Voters were hoodwinked. So how statesmanlike or indeed honest are Clegg and Cameron?Back to the "March". It was a real privilege to be with a group of medical students, medical professionals and pensioners protesting about this Bill. If it goes through we could end up with a three tire health care system like the States.Gee so don't be ill and don't be poor Bud. We shuffled for almost 5 hours and missed the speeches. There were enormous numbers of people there. My impression from my fellow protesters was of a deep sense of resigned unfairness with a tinge of anger ...as in the famous song..."....it's the poor what gets the blame....!" Hey but this WAS the big society marching to try to preserve our society. Please don't forget to sign the petition atwww.38degrees.org.uk/NHS-petition

Arthur Breens ● 5491d

To be fair there was good BBC News channel coverage of a peaceful, family-oriented march up until the moment that the group of, probably over-privileged, 'anarchists' started causing mayhem.It's a shame the a few hundred hijacked the coverage of hundreds of thousands.Equally it's a shame that Milliband came across as the least statesmanlike leader of the Labour party since Michael Foot.

Nigel Brooks ● 5491d

Some of the newspapers have pictures of peaceful marchers on the front page, rather than the militant hijackers. That in itself is probably a miracle.

Susan Kelly ● 5491d

It's a great pity that a handful of people decided that the best way to publicise your march was by committing criminal damage and assault. It's hardly surprising that the news reports are concentrating on these.---------Unfortunately, Susan, they weren't publicising our march. They used the occasion of it to start their own actions.  A great shame that the media agree with the Murdoch dictum that putting flames on the front page increases newspaper sales.

Allison Franklin ● 5492d

That is the real pity. these anarchists are probably all the silver spoon brigade anyway who will turn into tories when they reach 40.

Peter Chadburn ● 5492d

It's a great pity that a handful of people decided that the best way to publicise your march was by committing criminal damage and assault. It's hardly surprising that the news reports are concentrating on these.

Susan Kelly ● 5492d