Forum Topic

What Price Outsourcing ?.

The Unemployed people of Britain might well ask: what has been the result of Providing Employment abroad. How many such jobs are Out sourced ? How many more in the UK have been taken over by NON-Britishers ? I wonder too.If the numbers involved were reduced by just 30%, would it not help to provide Jobs at Home? The money we pay will be spent in Britain and benefit our small business men.The Chinese seem to do just the opposite. They take their own labour force abroad to help with any scheme that serves their self interest.An INFORMAL discussion of this issue will certainly crystalise my own thoughts . It is rather Sad to hear that so many learned,and qualified people in Britain facing a future without hope of suitable Employment.Any Thoughts on Un-Employment ?

Os. A. Whittle ● 5530d16 Comments

o.k.nuff said..back tooutsourcing.

Parvez Haling ● 5523d

Posts like that add to reasoned debate how?

Nigel Brooks ● 5523d

Poor Keith Idiott..everyone's ignoringhim......... justlook at his post..still at the bottom of the pile..

Parvez Haling ● 5523d

Hold on with the spanish!!! after all britain has become a banana republic with no bananas.. Yes Connaught are a good example and the bigger they become the less efficient also.

Peter Chadburn ● 5523d

True to a degree, but then you have the 'example' of the Connaught Group who, it is alleged by former senior employees, had 'predatory' pricing to shut out competitiors and make themslves very attractive to local authorities and housing associations, but who could not squeeze their contracts and sub-contractors to match the prices quoted.The result, Connaught are in administration, sub-contractors are owed millions and the clients have unfinished works.The drive to outsource is unnecessary if, I stress if, public sector bodies can truly get a handle on their costs and unions are prepared to accept that 'Spanich customs' have no place in the modern workplace.

Nigel Brooks ● 5524d

'I bruise easy'..yeah,right.

Keith Iddon ● 5524d

True,but the external companies have squeezed both ends out of the contracts to ensure their bonuses. i know someone who has worked as a carpenter for a couple of these companies and they are badly organised and just exist to milk the hosuing associations. i.e. you do a fix to what is reported and see that there is a consequential issue which you could fix there and then. but no it has to go through the paper trail and wait for someone else to fix. But the domination of outsourcing by big outsourcers means that the terms and conditions do not work in the customers favour and end up costsing more.

Peter Chadburn ● 5524d

PeterIf you are referring to the maintenance service going in house, then you cannot say if it was a good thing until you have seen the cost comparisons. Not difficult to have a local firm doing the job in Ealing or even over all West London provided the T&Cs are well drafted and there is good management control.Bet you can't get hold of the comparisons.

George Knox ● 5524d

Thanks Peter and Nigel for your input .It certainly encourages discussion . My Thanks also to those who aimed some abrasive  remarks. Forgive me if I cannot match your skills. I bruise easy.However ,you are always welcome to come back and add to the discussion. Best wishes . Keep Posting.

Os. A. Whittle ● 5524d

Outsourcing is also the shifting of responsability. It is not about Race/Immigration it is about corporate manipulation and greed. BT sent jobs to india and have had to bring them back and then want the british staff to work under Indian working conditions. Indian law does not protect confidential data. having worked for one company as a freelancer then returned working for the outsourcer i can see that then end customer whether a company, govt department or the public gets a pretty rough deal. also worked in a govt department where the clerical jobs were outsourced leading to bonuses for the bosses and poor statistics as temps replaced experienced civil servants. the outsource contract i worked on involved 23 people replacing 7 in house people where the users of the system did not get what they needed as everything was mired in contractual nonsense. the people that make the money are bosses of companies and not the public or the workers. Why is Capita known as Crapita. What about Ealings outsourcing of Housing Benefit etc... One decent thing the current administration did was to retake control of one of the housing areas. Cameron's idea to outsource everything may work if it was to non-profit trusts and charities, but once the US corporations and Crapita get involved it will mean more waste in the public sector.

Peter Chadburn ● 5524d

Do try to understand the motivation of companies who choose to outsource.Admittedly in the majority of cases it is simple profit (or greed depending on your perspective); however many companies are motivated by the need to deliver our (often unrealistic) expectations of customer service without raising prices to pay for 'enhanced' service.May I cite an example. A certain national service has a legal obligation to provide responses to travellers enquries. When it did so in the UK, each call cost it over £1.00 to service during office hours. The cost of moving to a 24 hour service would have seen the cost of meeting some calls double with particularly intransigent unions seeing to preserve and enhance slaries at seemingly any cost. These are not complex jobs and often involve simply reading information from a screen.Guess who pays for such intrasigence; you do in your ticket price. The decision was taken to move the bulk of the calls to India where the cost of handling the call (incuding getting it to India in the first place) was under £0.40 irrespective of time of day.Largely, it worked out but unfamiliarity with UK geography and complexity of some ticketing arrangements meant that some jobs had to be shifted back to the UK. Great, the jobs came back to areas of unemployment, in purpose built centres and provided salaries and benefits that the unions could not have secured in years of negotiations.If those working in the industry and those who claimed to offer them union representation had been a lot more flexible then the job would never have gone overseas in the firt place. Incidentally, the offices in India were all unionised and the salaries were well above the median for local graduates.

Nigel Brooks ● 5524d

Why don't you get a hobby instead of starting sh*tstorms and then ducking out of them 1/4 of the way through?There are plenty of barrack room lawyers on this forum as it stands without you putting your oar in!;-)

Keith Iddon ● 5524d

Tony you seem to have so many different issues to raise in various forums, but the underlining (theme) issue seems only to be about new arrivals & immigrants. Aren't you one of them?I am one certainly of them and made the best of my opportunitiesWe shouldn't have any immigants and shut the door or are all immigants are bad?What is your real point?If companies/organisation outsource they do it for fincial reasons and it doesn't matter who the outsource company/organisation come from or based.Some banks did the oversea thing, but found that it is better to moved back to good olde brity with their "Customer Service line", as cyustomer perfer that option.

Jim Wong ● 5524d

Sir ,It is the practice of Out Sourcing of Jobs to other Countries that I would like to focus on. I understand that it may bring in the impact of Immigrants on the Issue .It may also touch on particular areas of the world. It is merely the impact on the Unemployed within our Shores that concerns us .The unemployed in Britain would also include our own diverse Citizens . THe link I give below is to illustrate the Growth and potential of this practice.http://www.virtualemployee.com/

Os. A. Whittle ● 5525d

"Sickly immigrants add £1bn to NHS bill"Maybe they do, but our NHS would not be able to function without immigrant staff.For example, my GP is an immigrant.By the way, "Migration Watch" is not a "think tank". It is a group of bigots who have a phobia about foreigners (especially those with dark skins).What's more, the "Daily Mail" is not a newspaper - it's merely a hate sheet which sympathised with Hitler's Nazis in the 1930s. Some things never change.

Robin Taylor ● 5529d

I believe that Unemployment among the Non-white citizens of The United Kigdom is the Highest compared to the Population as a whole. On Health Issues too their needs are said to be the greater. If the NHS is changing drastically and budget cuts are inevitable should we concentrate on providing some respite to them as a vulnerable group ?Sickly immigrants add £1bn to NHS billby STEVE DOUGHTY, Daily Mail    * Comments (0)    * Add to My StoriesThe health service faces a bill of an extra £1billion every year to treat immigrants and asylum seekers, medical analysts warned yesterday.Taxpayers are likely to face a huge and ever-increasing burden because of the growing flow of migrants from countries where complex infectious diseases are common, they said.Their report highlighted Aids, hepatitis B and C and tuberculosis as diseases that are spreading fast in countries from which large numbers of immigrants come to Britain.The cost to the NHS of treating new arrivals with Aids alone threatens to amount to £900million each year, according to the analysis for the Migrationwatch UK think tank.It called for screening of immigrants before they leave their home countries to stop those with infections coming to Britain.Asylum seekers should be given health tests on arrival to reduce the risk of spreading infection, the report added.Roger Williams, professor of hepatology at University College London and a Migrationwatch adviser, said: "The potential cost to the NHS is enormous in both financial and staff terms. It is absolutely essential that firm action be taken to prevent any further increase in this growing pool of potential infection."Even a fraction of the money spent in the UK would treat a far larger number of patients in their own countries."A breakdown of potential costs carried out for the report examined the prevalence of serious infectious diseases in countries from which many immigrants come.Based on 2002 Home Office immigration figures and World Health Organisation estimates of the prevalence of disease, it calculated that immigrants brought in 25,000 cases of hepatitis B, 10,000 of hepatitis C and around 8,500 Aids cases.Analysts left dependants out of the reckoning and excluded students on the grounds that they are likely to return to their home countries before developing full symptoms of diseases.Nevertheless, the report said the cost of treating those with work permits and asylum seekers would be £300million a year for hepatitis B and £90million for hepatitis C.Treatments for both cost the NHS between £10,000 and £12,000 a year for each case. Every case of Aids costs £15,000 a year.The report assumed immigrants with Aids will be treated for ten years, which means 6,000 cases arriving each year will cost the taxpayer £900million.It said: "Adding these sums together would suggest that each year's intake of asylum seekers and work permit holders could involve a potential cost to the NHS of £1,290million."Such calculations cannot be precise but they certainly indicate that the potential costs are huge. This suggests an urgent need to introduce testing, at the very least for those, including students, who come from areas of high risk for those diseases."The report said tuberculosis is becoming a major health problem in some areas by transmission from immigrants to the local population.The growing numbers of health care workers recruited from abroad should also be tested for infections, the report said.Migrationwatch UK chairman Sir Andrew Green said: "It is clear that the introduction of pre-entry checks for work permit applications and students is an urgent priority. There are few other countries in the world where they are not already in place."Last week senior doctors warned that hospitals in some parts of the country are being overwhelmed by asylum seekers with HIV.The Department of Health has said it is reviewing the need for compulsory screening of immigrants from countries with high levels of Aids. Explore more:People:    Andrew Green Places:    United Kingdom Organisations:    University College London,     Department of Health,     World Health OrganisatioRead more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-185768/Sickly-immigrants-add-1bn-NHS-bill.html#ixzz1EEzizDva

Os. A. Whittle ● 5529d