Forum Topic

crossing the road at the lido.

I there an official reason that a safe crossing system has not been put in place at the juction of northfields ave, uxbridge road and argyll road? just seen yet another near collision with a pedestrian. Is it true that a certain amount of people have to be injured or killed befor a crossing is deemed necessary?

Margaret sheehan ● 5735d33 Comments

"Being helpful is not appreciated by Ealing Council."They have to justify their inflated salaries somehow.Will the proposed skatepark make a profit?Now that's a good idea.

Alan Brainsby ● 5667d

Being helpful is not appreciated by Ealing Council. Only they have good ideas. Given that they lose money on CPZ's and are planning to close a Day Centre for the most Vulnerable does it surprise you.

Peter Chadburn ● 5667d

It is now exactly one year since West Ealing Neighbours (WEN), along with other residents' groups and local residents, published a detailed report on the problems and possible solutions at this junction.Ealing Council, local Councillors, TfL, The Police and the current sitting MP were all given copies of this report.Apart from some poorly implemented bus lane adjustments to the east and west of the junction there has been no obvious sign of progress. Even worse, no-one has seen fit to communicate anything back to WEN about improving the junction. Is there anyone out there who can enlighten us all as to what is or is not happening with regards this dangerous junction?

Eric Alan Leach ● 5667d

Interesting to see a crude board affixed to the Church railings at Hanwell statingHanwell Safe Crossing needed Nowwe are led to believe some progress due over several months for us but they have no such promise yet

Colin Izzard ● 5728d

Yogic flying could cause havoc with traffic, what with all the rainbows emanating from its proponents. Could reduce road rage though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=438UKM1Av1g

M. Duley ● 5728d

Yogic flying

Peter Chadburn ● 5728d

Jet packs?

Susan Kelly ● 5728d

Or a multi-level grade-separated...Great minds think alike!

Alan Brainsby ● 5729d

Or a multi-level grade-separated cloverleaf interchange  .....yeah yeah

Chris Veasey ● 5729d

(or troglodytic subways)...OK, a footbridge, then.

Alan Brainsby ● 5729d

That tramway scheme for the Lido involved mass destruction of small shops and other niche businesses vital to the character and usefulness of West Ealing town centre  -  to anybody that advocates that (or troglodytic subways) I for one say: Don't call us, we'll call you!

Chris Veasey ● 5729d

Of course the road layout could be changed to that proposed for the tramway.Alternatively - subways.

Alan Brainsby ● 5729d

True about the buses/large vans etc blocking the road when turning right the road could be widened there, where the park is. Also help stop tail backs on uxbrige road, both ways, if the bus lanes didn't go so close to the lights, forcing cars to sit in the turn right lanes.

Margaret sheehan ● 5729d

I personally can't see what the problem would be for all the cars to stop at the red lights for a couple of minutes to let people to cross the road - it wouldn't cause any more traffic than what happens already. They could implement it into the programme of lights already there - red lights for traffic on Uxbridge Rd, Green for Northfields and Drayton Green Rd then Green for Uxbridge Rd and Red for Northfields and Drayton Green Rd followed then by Red lights on all roads and Green for pedestrians to cross.

J Smith ● 5729d

The tailbacks down Northfield Ave are often caused by a bus, or someone else, trying to turn right into Ealing and there not being enough room for other cars to pass it on the inside to go north, so it might help to have slightly more space at the junction for two lanes.If TFL should allow there to be four-way pedestrian crossing, why not go a little bit further and also have diagonal crossing, as at Oxford Circus - it seems to work well there and could help to clear the crossing a bit quicker for people who would want to cross on two sides...

D Fox ● 5729d

Be assured tailbacks on one or more of the four approaches are not unusual outside the conventional 'rush-hour' periods as well as within, and are observable on foot by passing pedestrians as well as from vehicle windows. On the other hand there's plenty of times when there's no tailbacks; and sometimes the tailbacks are comparatively short-lived.

Chris Veasey ● 5729d

I rarely find tailbacks at that junction but then I don't drive across it (or anywhere else, if I can help it) in the rush hour.

Susan Kelly ● 5729d

Both Susan and Chris are right. Many of us have driven back to Ealing late at night to sit patiently at a set of lights to allow pedestrians to cross. Of course there are no pedestrians they are fast asleep miles away in their beds. It is then that we realise this is happening 24/7  and the lights are not always best serving the interests of either common sense or road safety.However Chris and I worked on the report mentioned above. It came out of a frustration that the then council had spent £50,000 on a consultant's report which offered few if any improvements to bus users,pedestrians,cyclists or car drivers. This frustration increased when a councillor stated, "Nothing can be done!" Certainly something can be done about the queues extending down Northfield Ave. and something can be done for pedestrians bus users and cyclists. That's why I like Bassam and Angie's "can do" approach which I share with Chris.

Arthur Breens ● 5729d

There's 'massive tailbacks in all directions' with the current setup anyway. The only question is: whether once an all-ped signal stage setup had had time to bed in and settle down, the tailbacks were still worse to such an extent -  and/or ratrunning in the hinterland backstreets incrased to such intolerable levels  -  that those nasty creatures on two legs who have the presumption to want to walk across the heart of West Ealing should again continue to be suppressed so that every fool, moron and shyster in Southall or Hayes can ride to Ealing or Shepherds Bush and every fool, moron or shyster in Northolt and Greenford can ride to Brentford by car or bus as quickly and conveniently as possible with the minimum of interruption to their regal progress.

Chris Veasey ● 5730d

It would be nice to have a safe crossing for pedestrians at the Lido, but experience suggests that it will be messed up and cause massive traffic tailbacks in all directions.

Susan Kelly ● 5730d

I said in another forum that Bassam Mahfouz and Angie Bray could be Ealing's dream ticket. They've both put aside politics to try together to work up better schemes for a transport interchange and a lift at Ealing Broadway Station. Just say it to yourself slowly. A lift at Ealing Broadway station. And again. Now both have shown an interest in the Lido Junction. The quicker they get together for some photo opportunities the better for their political careers, for the public's view of politicians and for the improvement of the lot of the travelling public in Ealing. Hurrah! There were also cycle route proposals written into the resident generated "Improving pedestrian safety at the Lido Junction" published in Sept 2009 and available for all to see on the West Ealing Neighbours website. Plenty of room for improvement in this field as well. Keep on taking the pills Arthur!

Arthur Breens ● 5732d

Thanks for that - as encouraging a response as we've had from any responsible politician  -  BUT I hope your proposals don't consist of festooning the junction corners with anti-pedestrian guardrail and forcing peds to divert via crossings away from the junction and off their direct-crossing desire lines. Because that would be no 'solution' at all.Perhaps you could confirm whather or not my suggested all-ped green signal stage and crossing facilities at the junction itself (experimentally in then first instance, if necesary) is being seriously considered?

Chris Veasey ● 5732d

As someone who has used this junction every day of my life throughout my childhood and often use it now I fully appreciate the difficulties faced by pedestrians trying to cross the road at the Lido junction. It’s an issue I raised in my first meeting as the new portfolio holder for transport and as a council we have been working to develop proposals for additional controlled pedestrian crossing facilities at the junction and have recently submitted a preliminary scheme design to Transport for London (TfL) for evaluation and approval (as Uxbridge Road is on the Strategic Road Network under TfL).The evaluation will take into consideration the relative benefits and impacts of the proposed scheme on all road users including pedestrians, motorists and buses.  The process is expected to take approximately 3 months and, if successful, would be followed by a detailed design phase, consultation with local residents and then implementation of an approved scheme next year.I am keen to see this realised as I know how much of an issue it is, especially for pedestrians and I hope to see a scheme before residents for implementation as soon as is possible.Cllr Bassam MahfouzLabour Ealing Cabinet Member for Transport & Environment

Bassam Mahfouz ● 5732d

I agree  -  all such ped signal facilities should be 'on demand' (but with ADEQUATE ped green signal time allowing for the halt and the lame) without there's some overriding reason why they should be otherwise.(As a non-traffic related example: many years ago I found myself pressing the case for automatic every-cycle ped crossing signal facilities in the Golders Green/Hendon area, so the many members of the local ultra-orthdox Jewish community could actually use the crossings on the Sabbath -  their religious beliefs extend to prohibition from pressing a ped crossing button or even involuntarily triggering a photo-cell electronic beam on the Sabbath as that counts as 'work'. Regrettably the govt Department for Transport (or whatever it was called that week) refused to entertain the idea).

Chris Veasey ● 5734d

If there is to be an all-pedestrian stage at the lights (and I agree that it's dangerous there), I trust that it will operate only on request and not automatically at every phase of the lights, as it does at so many other junctions, to the detriment of traffic flow.

Susan Kelly ● 5734d

Not quite correct  -  Uxbridge road is a borough road in the sense of the Borough being the highway authority, but a few years back this road together with some other main roads in London was included in a new Primary Road (I think that's the term) network, over which TfL gave itself, or was given, overiding powers ('kid in a sweetshop' powers even!) to do anything it saw fit (or to stop anything happening it saw fit), both on the road itself or in its hinterland, in the interests of traffic flow.In other words, TfL enjoys the power while the borough Council is lumbered with the responsibility. Not that Ealing Councillors (any more than Council officers or consultants) have shown any enthusiasm for doing anything about this junction.IMHO, ALL that's needed here in the first instance is to introduce (EXPERIMENTALLY if necessary) an all-pedestrian stage in the signal cycle here (as at most similar constricted urban main crossroads junctions). That wouldn't cost much and if it caused unacceptable road traffic congestion which continued after the experimental arrangementm had had chance to settle down into a routing operation, it could always be whipped out again. Such experimental traffic schemes have been common practice for decades.

Chris Veasey ● 5734d

"the uxbridge road was seen as a tfl main route"No, it's not.  The Uxbridge Road is a borough road and not a TfL road.  So the borough should be taking the decisions about balancing pedestrian and wheeled traffic.  However, TfL run all the traffic lights in London, so they need to be involved as well.I can't see anything on the Ealing website about improvements to the Lido junction, not even in the Road Safety Plan for 2010.  Re Hanwell, they do say that they are investigating adding a pedestrian phase at the Church Road junction.

Richard Jennings ● 5734d

yes a crossing is definitely needed as soon as possible. I only like crossing Drayton Green Rd as opposed to Northfields Ave - that side is really bad.

J Smith ● 5734d

Without a doubt it is a crossing where you need to keep your wits about you, but so often pedestrians just go for it regardless of whats coming or the colour of the lights.

G Lord ● 5734d

In a sense this also ties in with church road hanwell and the lack of pedestrian safety at that junction. as the uxbridge road was seen as a tfl main route, hence all the tram nonsense then ealing councillors have said that tfl felt that traffic flow would be severely disrupted at church road. so it is overall under tfl control.

Peter Chadburn ● 5734d

I have witnessed three pedestrians being hit (I use the crossing most days) two of which were taken to hospital. I dont know if anyone has been killed. Is that what has to happen befor a pedestrian crossing is installed? Why all this cosultation? It's not the only crossroads in  london, others have pedestrian crossings, I have lived in northfields for years and every prospective counciler/mp, while looking for votes, have promised they'd do something about that crossing. have to wait and see if this one manages to....

Margaret sheehan ● 5735d

For years local Councillors, Ealing Council, TfL and even traffic consultants have variously given up on trying to make this junction safe for pedestrians. Last year though a group of local residents, which included two transport experts, sat down together many times to come up with a proposed solution. Giving up precious time and money this group published a report on their conclusions and circulated copies widely. You can view this report on the 'Lido Junction' page at www.westealingneighbours.org.uk.Angie Bray MP visited the junction last year; realised the dangers; and backed the campaign to make the junction safe.Encouraging noises have been heard from Ealing Council about the fact that TfL is reviewing the report as part of a major north/south review of traffic flows through West Ealing - from the A40 in the north and down Northfield Avenue to the south.A small part of the re-enginnering of the junction has already happened on the eastern section of the Uxbridge Road leading to the junction. The left hand 'car' lane has been extended (the bus lane truncated) to give straight-on/ left turning traffic and right turning traffc to have more space to 'sort themselves out' before reaching the junction.Sadly the road marking work for this took months to be completed. Let's hope the other proposed works are adopted and implemented rapidly this year.

Eric Alan Leach ● 5735d

How many people have been killed and injured at that junction?

Dan Wilkinson ● 5735d