Forum Topic

Cross-pavement EV charging

So I pay £1,000 to £1,500 to have a channel inserted across the pavement outside my house, which takes 1.5 to 3 hours (who is fitting these? the hourly rate indicates it must be City lawyers).  But how do I guarantee being able to park outside my house to take advantage of this.  It's probably only about once a fortnight that I get to find a space outside my home rather than a distance away.

Robert Shaw ● 3d38 Comments

I've seen cables hitched up and through trees to reach upstairs windows to be plugged in!

Philippa Bond ● 2d

You can also get a purpose built swinging arm that dangles your charging cable out over the pavement to reach your car.  No trip hazard here, but they also need permission from the council.Meanwhile, the charging problem remains for blocks of flat, unless we allow festoons of extension cables to dangle out of the windows or over the balconies! Even in a block of garages there might be a 40w light socket but not enough communal supply to support 3kW cars being plugged in.

Peter Evans ● 2d

As someone who, on a really good day, uses two sticks and on a 'less good' day uses a walking frame I would  opine that I have no issues with properly designed cable covers like the Vevor or Edion ones which are about 10"/250mm wide and which allow for a very gentle 'ramp'. Wheelchair or frame users would barely notice crossing these. The cheap black rubber covers,  that just cover the cables on the other hand, are a ruddy nightmare and are a trip hazard. It would be easy for the council to proscribe the type that can be used and possibly make a tidy profit  in providing 'approved' types.

N V Brooks ● 2d

So the council, as per, balls everything up. They hardly ever sweep roads or cut trees etc.Older bigger tree roots are pulling up kerbs & the footway. Planted so close to pavement edge, causes lot of problems. Yet they continue to plant them there.Cars who drive across footway to park on their driveway, if they have no dropped kerb, it’s a fine.Easy to enforce, yet the council ignore.As for Wandsworth, they have done an all singing, all dancing road restructuring.Completely mucked up traffic in every direction

Peter Yale ● 2d

The problem here is that councils across the country are being heavily incentivised to put in place EV charging infrastructure and are using the money given to try and generate extra revenue share by partnerships with private companies who supply the equipment be it dedicated charging points in parking bays or on lampposts. Energy companies are introducing specialised EV charge rates that mean it can be up to ten times more expensive to charge away from your home as well as much more convenient. However, if everybody was able to use their own supply, council's revenues from EV charging would dwindle to virtually nothing. At the moment, the economics of EV's simply don't work at the high charge rates which can lead to them being almost as expensive to run as conventional vehicles. Factor in the inconvenience, depreciation and lack of range, they aren't an attractive option apart from the tax incentives that may be available particularly to corporate users. This probably isn't an issue at the moment with EV sales largely confined to higher income brackets and many drivers not that worried about how much they pay to charged. However, as lower cost EVs become available and start to be owned by the 'just about managing' there will be a much higher demand for cross pavement charging. Ealing's policy at the moment seems to be to turn a blind eye even to unprotected cables strewn across pavements so we have the worst of both worlds. The notion that a properly installed cable protector presents a trip hazard is a nonsense, you will come across them in shops and offices every day. 

Gordon Southwell ● 2d

Here's a thought. Rather than speculate over what 'people in wheelchairs' and 'people with mobility issues' deem a problem or not, why not ask them?

Dominik Klimowski ● 2d

If the pavements weren't driven over and cracked and dislodged and they and the gutters were swept with a stiff brush then there wouldn't be anywhere or anything for plants to root in.  But they aren't.  Most of the plants are either garden escapes or wild flowers and they are cheerful until they are poisoned with whatever it is that we will now be breathing and walking into our homes which will probably catch up with us later (just like smoking and asbestos). The glyphosate controversy continues with plenty of lawsuits.

Philippa Bond ● 2d

I suppose that this is the reason Ealing Council insisted on plastic glasses for beer, as opposed to 33 years of allowing proper glasses at the Ealing beer festival ????

Peter Tolhust ● 2d

>Seems to be only you (as usual) who has a problem with it.No Peter, not just me, amoung others, Ealing Council does have aproblem with it too as it forbids people from running charging cables across the pavement, whether they are covered or not.Again, not sure what you're not getting here?

Paul James ● 2d

Until subsidence or they’re dug up.Ealings pavings awful, from weeds (& the gutter)

Peter Yale ● 2d

The problem is that most of our pavements already are a trip hazard without the addition of anything else.  All those metal BT covers etc that protrude above paving stones and the kerbstones sitting at dangerous angles and so often dislodged by motor vehicles riding over them become hideously slippery wet etc.  A visit to Wandsworth showed a completely different world for pedestrians of level pavements - a complete delight.

Philippa Bond ● 2d

Seems to be only you (as usual) who has a problem with it.Utility companies use them, built exactly for that  purpose

Peter Yale ● 2d

>A cable on its own is a trip hazard.>A cable covered by a manufactured cable guard, keeps everything safeI've fixed this for you:A cable on its own is a trip hazard.A cable covered by a manufactured cable guard is an even  higher trip hazard than just a cable on its ownThis partly is why you're not allowed to put a cable across the pavement in Ealing, regardless of wether or not it is covered (there are other reasons).I'm not sure what you're finding so hard about this.

Paul James ● 2d

A cable on its own is a trip hazard.A cable covered by a manufactured cable guard, keeps everything safe

Peter Yale ● 2d

The link you shared earlier acknowledges that some local authorities have this policy. Hampshire and Southend on Sea are two but there will be others. (Southend appears to allow charging without cable protectors which I agree is unwise).https://www.southend.gov.uk/parking-2/electric-vehicle-street-charging-guidanceWhile your concern about adding to trip hazards on our streets is very laudible, I'm puzzled by your stance and EV charging with cable protectors presents a much smaller risk than dockless bikes and bus islands which disability groups are also much more concerned about. My view on both is the same as EV charging - the benefits outweigh the risks and therefore we should have them. The benefits of increased EV adoption are far greater because we are talking about reduced premature deaths, so the cost benefit is the most clear cut of the three cases in question.

Mark Evans ● 2d

>No they are not., quite the opposite .In use a lot of placesYou can report them here Peter. The council will remove them.https://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201152/roads_highways_and_pavements/848/road_or_pavement_problem"You are not allowed to run a cable across the public pavement, due to health and safety risks."https://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201173/transport_and_parking/1316/electric_vehicles_and_charging_points

Paul James ● 2d

& even better they would slow pavement cyclists down.It’s a win win

Peter Yale ● 2d

No they are not., quite the opposite .In use a lot of places

Peter Yale ● 2d

I was asking some scoffolders and while back to move their truck off the pavement.AFter they had ALL came out the site to abuse and threaten me, we watched as an elderly lady walked up the pavmenet, and tried to step off the low kerb to get round it, but she couldn't do it, it obviously felt VERY risky for her to do this.They moved the truck.Yes there are a LOT of other things to fix about pavments, but adding more crap to them is not the answer.

Paul James ● 2d

Hmmmm in this case doesn't count as evidence. Yes there will be extra risk for people with disabilities just as there is for example in the widespread adoption of dockless hire bikes or bus islands which most would agree are far more challenging. The benefits of widespread adoption of EVs would be a reduction in air quality related premature deaths so you need to balance this with the possibility of injuries related to cross pavement cables which, other than 'hmmmm', you haven't yet provided any real evidence.

Mark Evans ● 2d

>Anyway not many properties have themNo properties should have them, they are not allowed, they are trip hazards, among other things.

Paul James ● 2d

They are clearly designed for that specific purpose, to cover a trip hazard & allow prams, wheelchairs to navigate them. Also anything else that travels along the pavement (although they shouldn’t, hmm).Anyway not many properties have them

Peter Yale ● 2d

>The point remains that some authorities do allow them.Which ones?

Paul James ● 2d

>They don't pose a serious obstacle to anyone in a wheelchairHmmm...> and for people with other mobility issues there are far more serious trip hazards on our local streets.So add more? Hmmm....

Paul James ● 2d

>such as Brighton & HoveRunning cables across highwaysDo not charge your electric vehicle by running a cable across the public highway from a domestic or business electricity supply.  Instead, you should use the nearest chargepoint to you. We are aware of the trials some local authorities (LAs) are undertaking to allow residents to lay their EV cable in a channel through the pavement to access their vehicle on the public highway. We have some concerns about the channel strategy, in terms of accessibility to the space (particularly in controlled parking zones), the potential for trip hazards depending on the method used, ongoing maintenance of these new features, as well as liability should an incident arise. The trials currently being done should give us some data on these points.   We will watch with interest when those trials are complete and the LAs publish their findings. But, like the vast majority of other councils in the country we are pursuing a strategy of making on-street charging available in areas where residents are demonstrating demand. https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/travel-and-road-safety/electric-vehicle-ev-charging/private-charging-over-highway-cables-gullies-etc

Paul James ● 2d

Apologies, my mistake. The point remains that some authorities do allow them.

Mark Evans ● 2d

They don't pose a serious obstacle to anyone in a wheelchair and for people with other mobility issues there are far more serious trip hazards on our local streets. Is there any evidence that, where councils have decided to allow cross pavement charging, there has been an increase in accidents? In the absence of that I would argue that the risk it presents (which certainly isn't zero) is outweighed by the potential to significantly boost EV ownership. A system in which there were clear rules on what equipment could be used is self-evidently better of the current arrangement of a ban that isn't enforced.

Mark Evans ● 2d

>and Hackney do allow them"We know that most households in Hackney do not have off street parking and that a home EV charge point is not an option as it is not permitted to run cables from a home EV charge point across the pavement to a parked vehicle."

Paul James ● 2d

> so there isn't an obvious reason for them being forbidden. OK, you're in a wheechair or have other mobility issues, and EVERY house on a street has one of these across the pavement...

Paul James ● 3d

Our pavements are already so problematical with our frontages and car parking spaces so shared already I am still struggling to see how this improves matters other than to make cross pavement charging legal when done like this as opposed to the other cross pavement systems being used.  Most people do use special fluorescent cable covers which make it easier to push buggies etc over. I hope this new system has been independently and truly tested by wheelchair users!  I remember a trial of cross-pavement chargers being done in Oxford some years ago but I'm not sure how that has panned out especially with sharing the limited space to park each time you want/need to charge your car.

Philippa Bond ● 3d

They are not allowed in Ealing (although this is clearly not being enforced) but other councils such as Brighton & Hove, Wandsworth, Reading, and Hackney do allow them so there isn't an obvious reason for them being forbidden. .

Mark Evans ● 3d

>They are like miniature speed humps made of rubber.These are NOT allowed, for obvious reasons.

Paul James ● 3d

A near neighbour has bought heavy duty ramp type things.They are like miniature speed humps made of rubber.Seems to work well & nowhere nearly as extortionate as council  costs

Peter Yale ● 3d

Home charging is at 5% VAT whereas the public chargers are at 20% VAT plus a profit for the supplier. Talks of a charge over £1,000 to just put in a cable duct seem well over the top!

Peter King ● 3d

I agree. The new policy is a huge backward step and is based on the assumption that EV owners will always be relatively wealthy. The arguments against over pavement charging with proper safety precautions are very weak and certain outweighed by the potential benefits of mass adoption of EVs in London. However, this is going to happen much more slowly in areas of west London which have a large proportion of terraced housing and on street parking. I don't own an EV and don't drive enough to make it worth my while getting one but this decision means that, even when they are eventually price equivalent with ICE vehicles, it may not be a practical option to get one.

Mark Evans ● 3d

How do you charge your vehicle now, Robert?

Dominik Klimowski ● 3d

34 houses, more than one car per house, 6 frontages with single yellow lines, double yellows both sides at each end, plus parkers from adjacent streets because we are "quiet".And just think of the sickening sense of entitlement it would require to put out cones to protect one's own kerb-length.

Robert Shaw ● 3d

It does help if you know your neighbours.  Do you know yours?

Philippa Bond ● 3d