Forum Topic

Box junction abuse

Yellow diagonal lines,so-called box junctions, have multiplied in Ealing roads recently. They are designed to ensure traffic flows and that stationary vehicles don't bock through traffic. Ask yourself why should one be positioned at the junction of the Uxbridge Road with Florence Road (that's near Ealing Common)? Florence Road is a tiny road with no status and little traffic. The yellow diagonal box at its junction with the Uxbridge Road serves no purpose but to slow down Uxbridge Road traffic. So why, spending our money, was it put in? Maybe the camera that comes with it might give us the answer.We know what Ealing Council are doing. We are not stupid. I am not only upset I also feel abused.

Arthur Breens ● 51d55 Comments

Did the cyclist get done for pedalling

Peter Yale ● 36d

>& did you see that cyclist bitten by 3 dogs outside Lidl , in Waltham Cross.>Must have been cycling on the pavement or too fast.'A man has been jailed for 16 months after a cyclist was attacked by three "dangerously out-of-control dogs" at a supermarket, police said.'That's it Peter, don't bother replying to me, I won't be replying to you again. Thanks for making that easy.

Paul James ● 36d

& did you see that cyclist bitten by 3 dogs outside Lidl , in Waltham Cross.Must have been cycling on the pavement or too fast.Hope the dogs are okay

Peter Yale ● 36d

You can’t put a number or figure on it.My new scheme would help

Peter Yale ● 36d

> FOR CARNAGE THEY CAUSE ON ROADSCARNAGE would be hundreds of people killed by people cycling each year Peter surely?

Paul James ● 36d

I have just finished re-reading yet another Robert Rankin book. If you don't know the author he creates wonderful fantasy realms with numerous references to Ealing and Brentford.  From talking sprouts to a great, great, great grandfather who was killed the Battle of the Little Bighorn because he visited from an adjacent field to complain about the noise they are both engaging and amusing. Robert is now semi retired and there is a need for someone to take up the fantasy writing baton. Were it not for the need to be engaging and amusing I would have proposed that Paul pick up the baton but, on reflection, Mr. Rankin's works have not totally lost touch with reality unlike the fantasy musings if Paul James.

N V Brooks ● 36d

& there should be bike free zones, 7 days a week, 7am to  10am &  16:00 to 19:00.  in all town centres.Stop cycling ion pavement ,not stopping at zebra crossings. Cycling wrong way down streets etc etc.Pedestrians will be safe as  vehicles have identifiable number plates

Peter Yale ● 36d

Nope, officials can report to police & they deal with it. Not you.EXCELLENT NEWS TOO. CYCLISTS ARE GOING TO BE PROSECUTED FOR CARNAGE THEY CAUSE ON ROADS - DEATH

Peter Yale ● 36d

>That’s down to policeYou want POLICE managing school street barriers?

Paul James ● 36d

>Don’t ever drive down that road.Again, I didn't say that, you can drive down the road when the school street isn't operation (times and days on the sign).It's a bit of an inconvenience for driving if you want to drive into the school street yes, but it massively REDUCES the inconvience and danger for kids and parents outside the school gates.>Term times are different. No they aren't.I posted the link above for Ealing School term times.>It should be clear, obvious so no fleecing of motorists.How are you going to get fleeced if you don't drive past the sign during operational hours?

Paul James ● 36d

They got rid of lollipop ladies and men because bit was an easy cut to budgets. Nothing to do with abuse from drivers. Maybe abuse from cyclists who don’t like stopping at crossings or lights! The costs savings were negligible and soon swallowed up by increased councillor allowances.As usual Paul makes something up to suit his narrative.https://www.ealingtoday.co.uk/default.asp?section=info&page=ealollipop001.htm

Simon Hayes ● 36d

Children uninjured and didn't even fall over😊 are you sure they didn't simply walk into a parred car?  Of course, a clumsy child wouldn't fit your narrative would it never mind I'll leave you to spend your day dodging skip glories.  Doubtless, you have countless community improvement activities to hand today Paul one day, perhaps, you'll tell us what they are.

N V Brooks ● 36d

That’s down to police, not plastic coppers like you

Peter Yale ● 36d

That typifies your hypothetical, selfish anti car stance. Don’t ever drive down that road.Term times are different. It should be clear, obvious so no fleecing of motorists.Given your license up yet or still telling us all what to do?

Peter Yale ● 36d

>It falsely will show when schools out.Peter, I can't quite understand what you are getting at here.On Ealing School street times they have the Days TIMES the school street operates (for examle Mon to Fri 8.15am to 9:15am and 2.45pm to 3.30pm)If you drive into the school street during the displayed operation times you will get a fine, except if Eailng schools are on holiday. These times are published herehttps://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201123/your_child_at_school/119/term_and_holiday_datesSo don't drive past the sign at all if you don't know when Ealing school holidays are.Unless you have a permit for that particular school street.

Paul James ● 36d

>but use temporary barriers operated by volunteer staff or parents.This is how many school streets start, but it's a big ask to get people to set up barriers and guard them so after a while ANPR is put in with proper legal signage.Notwithstanding putting people in harms way, a big reason they abandoned lollipop ladies and men was the abuse they recevied from drivers.

Paul James ● 36d

The kids weren't hurt Nigel, slow collisions and both I witnessed they bounced off the side of the vehicle and didn't fall over.Still, low speed collisions are scary to watch, scary to thnk about what could have happened, and soemtimes they can be fatal:https://www.ealingtoday.co.uk/default.asp?section=community&link=https://neighbournet.com/server/common/eahounscrime2504.htm

Paul James ● 36d

Sounds a much better idea Mr K.No wonder khan/tfl council don’t do that here. His next foolhardy scheme is to close Oxford St

Peter Yale ● 37d

School Streets in most other countries don't rely on signs with convoluted times on them and who knows what enforcement, but use temporary barriers operated by volunteer staff or parents.  These physically close each end of the road for the required time, which is often for more like 15 minutes than a whole hour. Simple really, and less susceptible to confusion and misunderstanding!

Peter Evans ● 37d

What a terrible shame that none of these children that you have "witnessed"being hit reported the incidents to the Metropolitan Police as not a single pedestrian incident by St. Marks school has been reported since 2012. Had they been reported, if they happened at all, a school street would have been implemented far sooner.  It is fabrication, some may call it lies, like this that undermine the case for school streets which have my wholehearted support as they provide protection with minimal disruption. Such a shame that some need to fantasise or lie to make their case.

N V Brooks ● 37d

His new toy only showed part of the sign.It gives times & Monday to Friday, but no indication of term times.It falsely will show when schools out.Doesn’t affect  PJ, just the rest of ud

Peter Yale ● 37d

Doubtless you obtained copyright clearance to use that image as it does not appear to be under a Creative Commons Commons licence.

N V Brooks ● 37d

Doubtless you obtained copyright clearance to use that image as it does not appear to be under a Creative Commons Commons licence.

N V Brooks ● 37d

I think that’s for your beloved ltns, nothing to do with school zones. (I will check later) The sign we have says no left/right turn from 08:15 to 09:15 & an hour in the afternoon, nothing about term timekIt’s clearly what you want roads devoid of cars. Oh except yours. Total & utter undeniable hypocrisy

Peter Yale ● 37d

>Seen all that, really. Yup.>What does your psychologist say, cuckoo!Abuse and name calling, nice.>I’m not against them, just don’t like misleading signs & entrapment to fleece motorists .What is not clear about this sign Peter?>They are for schools, so putting them everywhere doesn’t quite work.They are school streets, yes put school street everywehre Peter, at all the schools where possible.>Continual & hypocritical view of your hate for cars.I don't hate cars, I use one myself occasionally.>Should close every road, brilliant ideaWho has ever suggested that? You're making stuff up again.

Paul James ● 37d

What an exciting life you lead. Seen all that, really. What does your psychologist say, cuckoo!I’m not against them, just don’t like misleading signs & entrapment to fleece motorists .They are for schools, so putting them everywhere doesn’t quite work.Continual & hypocritical view of your hate for cars.Should close every road, brilliant idea

Peter Yale ● 37d

Peter, watching drivers fight for spaces, driving along pavements, blocking pavemnts and sight lines on corners, parking on zebra crossings, fast reversing, having swearing shouty standoffs whilst five year old kids tried to get to a school gate was horrific.Not to mention delivery drivers bowling past the school gates as fast as they could and large lorries/trucks being moved around as tiny kids walked by cowering on pavements (which were no safe place anyway).I've witnessed kids hit by drivers outside the school gates, and heard of more.A school street at my local school fixed all this, it's not a problem any more.School streets are great, Ealing needs MORE of them, not less.Ealing council are putting more and more in and they are very popular, so you can go sing frankly.

Paul James ● 37d

An absolute moronic , more of your anti car rhetoric.The world just stops, no kids to school, no work. Nothing.Suits you in your cuckoo world.As I said before times vary.You really are dangerously delusional

Peter Yale ● 37d

>The exact information should be provided. What do you stop & get out your phone?Well no, if yuou DON'T know it's a school holiday just don't go that way at all.>Illegal. Other routes are closed.They aren't, there is always an alternative way around a school street during its hours of operation. Stop making stuff up Peter.

Paul James ● 37d

The exact information should be provided. What do you stop & get out your phone?Illegal. Other routes are closed.Yet more blinkered anti motorist nonsense.My licence for your information, is fully up to date, clean with HGV class 1.Have you handed yours in yet or still  dictating to everyone else

Peter Yale ● 37d

Peter, if you're not sure of Ealing schools term times , which are widely and publicly available, then just don't drive past the no motor vehicle signs at all, it's not hard, there's always another way around.I'm sorry you're such a rubbish driver.

Paul James ● 37d

During term times, whenever that is???More anti  car nonsense from you

Peter Yale ● 37d

>unwittingly finedUnwittingly fined for driving past a VERY clear "no motor vehicles" sign and signs leading up to it?

Paul James ● 37d

Suits your continual selfish , but hypocritical, anti car rhetoric.Along with content that motorists can be trapped & unwittingly fined

Peter Yale ● 37d

My opinion on school streets?I'm a massive fan, we need more of them.

Paul James ● 37d

As I say I’m asking your opinion, NOT council lip service.Of course it’s entrapment as drivers don’t know when it’s safe to drive or not.That will please you, seem to want all roads closed

Peter Yale ● 37d

>Swerving questions as usual .All the answers for the questions you asked are in the link I provided.>Of course it’s a great deal, it’s entrapment.How is it entrapment? You don't get a fine if you drive past the signs when Ealing Schools are closed.Entrapped into NOT getting a fine ?

Paul James ● 37d

Swerving questions as usual .Of course it’s a great deal, it’s entrapment.Still as you shouldn’t drive & hate cars, not a problem

Peter Yale ● 37d

>Like the signs, unclear.They're not unclear, one small issue is that they don't apply during ealing school holdays and it doens't say that on the signs, but it's not a major issue.>And what’s your answer to queries?Al your answers are in the link I provided.

Paul James ● 37d

Unfortunately it’s not.Like the signs, unclear.And what’s your answer to queries?

Peter Yale ● 37d

It's all here Peter:https://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201146/neighbourhood_and_streets/2610/ealing_school_streets

Paul James ● 37d

Can you also explain  about school zones?Are delivery drivers exempt from?Post office vans, Waitrose shopping etc?Construction trucks who can’t get around  narrow streets?Need all these if you don’t want private cars & the economy to thrive

Peter Yale ● 37d

On the contrary. You always slate cars & motorists.You should tear up your license

Peter Yale ● 37d

>Every post or comment you make, is against cars.No it's not, you're misreading them and misrepresenting me.

Paul James ● 37d

Every post or comment you make, is against cars.Hypocrite

Peter Yale ● 37d

A reminder I don't hate motor vehicles Peter. I use one occasionally myself for instance.

Paul James ● 37d

Paul James have you handed in your license yet ???You absolutely loathe cars, never speak in favour of them.What you selfishly ignore & will not accept, hypocritically, is people need & want cars.Councils use motorists as cash cows, design schemes to trap drivers.For example, school schemes.Are they in force 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year?I’m under the assumption it’s only operational during term times. When’s that, schools differ. There’s no information on dig signs.The USA has flashing signs to warn when roads are prohibited, not so here.I know cases of someone who drove through to their destination & back again a bit later. Several times & got 3 or 4 tickets.You really think they blatantly disregard traffic regulations?It’s entrapment when a warning do

Peter Yale ● 38d

Michael sorry. The busy NHS Practice is rendered car free by the long hours resident only CPZ. Very rarely are the few "open bays" available. Yes there are others on the Common but then why would patients use Florence Road to access them or leave from them. The frequency of these box junctions I notice makes it particularly difficult for those with long vehicles. How do I know? I am a regular bus user.

Arthur Breens ● 39d

Florence Road is not a "tiny" road and has much traffic.There is also a busy NHS Practice - Florence Road.The yellow lines on Uxbridge Road are a considerable help when turning into Florence Road.  No need to feel abused.

Michael Thomson ● 44d

The design of many box junctions can be problematic, particularly if the boxes are bigger than thry need to be or if other signals or road layouts affect them. A good example is the one on the Brentford side of Kew Bridge. Heading north the two lanes exiting the box merge into one and are compromised by a bus stop and a Pelican crossing. Thus one’s exit might be clear but then closes due to traffic merging or stopping suddenly. There are numerous examples like this in London.Similarly the ones on the Hogarth roundabout are problematic because they are so big it’s not always possible to see the exit clearly from some angles.https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/box-designhttps://media.rac.co.uk/rac-uncovers-problems-with-nine-in-10-yellow-box-junctions-councils-want-to-enforce-3250134

Simon Hayes ● 51d

They’re not constantly blocked.Like the Avenue it’s very hard to judge being so long, also cars cutting in.Always the soft touch they target, rather than blatant disregard for other drivers

Peter Yale ● 51d

Peter, you can't get on with it if you're trying to cross a junction that's constantly blocked by other vehicles.A reminder, you commit an offence if you drive INTO a box junction if your exit is not clear.

Paul James ● 51d

Yellow box 1mm o side & fines are a farce.Stupid traffic schemes, losing road space is a farceYou don’t, or shouldn’t drive, leave those of us who want or need to, to get on with it

Peter Yale ● 51d

There are a LOT more places in Ealing where box junctions are needed to stop people blocking others, and all over London.I do have to say though, box junctions are a symptom and side effect of ... too many cars...

Paul James ● 51d

It’s EXACTLY that Arthur. Money, money & more money.Entrapment too.West Ealing Chapel Rd jct Ucbridge Read, needs a yellow box.khans million & 1 buses block the junction for people trying to get across to turn right into Drayton Green Rd, also blocking the prohibition signs (where more money is fleeced).Argyle Rd, jct The Avenue is a nightmare for motorists, too long a box with cars turning from the Avenue, causing drivers problems .Ealing council had to rethink the yellow box in Greenford due to the outcry. Good

Peter Yale ● 51d