Forum Topic

Town Hall - Victoria Hall

I've only just managed to find the September 2023 decision of the First-tier Tribunal re the appeal against the Charity Commission's ruling about the Victoria Hall etc:https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/GRC/2023/805.htmlOne of the key rulings is "that a revised Scheme is drawn up between the two Respondents [i.e. The Charity Commission and LB Ealing] in consultation with the Appellants [Tony Miller & Will French], within 185 days of the date of this Decision".By my reckoning, this timescale was completed on 24th March 2024.Does anyone have any information on what is happening in this case now?I was pleasantly surprised to read that the Tribunal said "Should agreement between the parties on a new Scheme not be reached, the First Respondent [The Charity Commission] is directed to make a new Scheme that, in its view, takes account of the findings of the Tribunal, whereupon, a new right of appeal, this time against the terms of the new Scheme, will arise at the instance of any party with the necessary locus standi subject to the time limits for bringing an appeal set out in the Act."

Phil Kay ● 98d32 Comments

"The Council committees that want to sell off the halls have never discussed it."WHEN will Liebore Loving residents wake up, and realise that Ealing Council Liebore are nothing but a bunch of Cheap Quasi-Communists?!

Rosco White ● 43d

James, thanks for this. Simply, the Council has never tried to run the two halls independently, but if they were properly managed they could operate successfully without taxpayer subsidy. Why else would Mastcraft want to take them over? The Campaign for an Ealing Performance and Arts Centre (CEPAC - www.cepac.org.uk/) has put together a professional business case to show how the halls could be run in the community’s interest on a not-for-profit basis.  The Council committees that want to sell off the halls have never discussed it.With the Borough’s population growing so fast, the need for places for its communities to come together for meetings, entertainments and celebrations has never been greater.  During previous elections the Victoria Hall hosted hustings of the candidates. Now it's closed there is nowhere for events like this to take place. Our predecessors who paid for the halls wanted them used for such events and it'll betray their intentions if they were taken over as a hotel.Meanwhile things remain in the hands of the Charity Committee. If there is any more news we will keep you posted. 

Will French ● 43d

Are you serious Mr Putland, do you have no respect for The Law?LBE under Liebore clearly don't, but I thought this point was clear to everyone else.

Rosco White ● 44d

I do so hope that you are correct.The general principal surely must be that assets held in trust cannot simply be disposed of on a political whim.

N V Brooks ● 44d

As someone who had given time and money to this campaign for many years, let me tell you why I think the Friends of Victoria Hall will win in the end. We will eventually encounter a senior Government lawyer who will declare Ealing Council unfit to be a trustee of any charity managing Victoria Hall.For decades the Council has failed to produce accounts for the Victoria Hall Trust (VHT). The Council has clearly shown itself unable to represent both the interests of the Council and VHT - two organisations with completely different aims and objectives. The final nail in the coffin is the fact that the Council has failed to repair and maintain Victoria Hall - even though £millions having been collected by the Council from hall hiring fees for decades. Closing Victoria Hall in September 2023 quoting health and safety reasons could well be the final epilogue in the Council's governance of the hall.

Eric Alan Leach ● 45d

Have you understood the background of this case that you say you’ve followed? There’s quite an important legal principle at play here. There is also a very strong case for the Victoria Hall to be more widely available for public use. The hotel plan will severely restrict the availability of what will be a lesser space, and push the cost of hiring it up.The council has spent about £2million of our money pursuing this. No tangible benefits to Ealing residents as yet. The Town Hall itself had an £800,000 refurbishment just 10 years ago, which the council boasted about at the time. Hard to believe it has fallen into such disrepair so quickly, although given Ealing Labour’s ability to mess things up it wouldn’t be surprising.This hotel idea is simply a sweetheart deal between Julian Bell and Mastcraft (who’s founder was a pal of outgoing Ealing Southall MP Virendra Sharma, surely just a coincidence).

Simon Hayes ● 45d

Thank you for the response. So both you and Mr. Brooks believe it should be left as it is because it is what it is. With respect, that is not an argument that would convince anyone that you are right. A well formed view with solid reasoning might help you get people onside.

James Putland ● 45d

Whether or not there is a Business Case is immaterial to me, this VERY disingenuous Labour controlled Council should be stopped from selling something they simply do not own, on principle alone.Metropolitan Open Land, etc, LBE is always trying to sell and/or build on stuff they do not own, they need to be stopped in their arrogant tracks, or precedents are set. And we all know Developers Gain/Residents Lose when that happens.

Rosco White ● 50d

Ealing has more than enough hotel rooms with occupancy rates in the 'low 70's' which would lead one to question the need for another hotel at all.The Victoria Hall is a public asset held in trust, it is simplynot the council's property to dispose of on a lease or otherwise.

N V Brooks ● 50d

Hi Will - thank you for the update. I have followed this story, being a resident of Ealing for the past 10 years. I appreciate history and sentimentality - some things should be preserved and protected. I struggle to understand the business case behind maintaining this facility, at tax payers expense, and would appreciate a little more detail as to why. From what I can find, the space can be hired out for weddings, corporate events etc. There are plenty of spaces similar for those uses.Ealing is a dynamic place - great schools, great community, great parks, great businesses etc. Waling continues to evolve and becomes an ever more appealing place to live thanks to progress. A good hotel would be an asset to the economy of Ealing - more customers for local businesses, more reason for visitors to bring their money to spend here, a nice place for locals to use. Why are you so opposed to the redevelopment of the site? Emotive/sentimental reasons are to be respected, however the business case should be solid.I ask with an open mind. Thank you.

James Putland ● 50d

Got a Link for that one too?      🤣

Rosco White ● 58d

You make assumptions about things that you know little of Rosco.

Philippa Bond ● 58d

So you're the font of all knowledge, got a Link you can post?    😂

Rosco White ● 58d

You don't know what you are talking about.

Philippa Bond ● 58d

I'M boring? Give YOU a break? MY assumptions and I sound like a stuck record?  🤣Ms Bond, your blind support for Ealing Coundil Labour speaks VOLUMES.

Rosco White ● 58d

So boring Rosco.  Give us a break.  You just can't see past your own assumptions and you sound like a stuck record.Thank you Will French for the update.  When not personally involved in the intricacies of this it is difficult to keep up with what is and isn't happening when so much time is involved and life has so many other crises to deal with.  Perhaps that is their idea?  We shouldn't let them get away with it.  

Philippa Bond ● 59d

Thank you Mr French, for the fine expose' of how our wonderful Council under Liebore "operates".  Always in the best interests of Council Tax Paying Residents........🤣WHEN will The Lemmings, who keep returning The Ealing Little Communists to power, realise that they are just that, Lemmings, to be used and abused......... and laughed at.As I have said SO many times on here, the informed and intelligent Council Labour (past) supporters I know woke up and ditched this rotten crock two elections ago.

Rosco White ● 75d

Thanks very much for raising this. As one of the named appellants against the previous ‘scheme’ I’m sorry if we’ve not kept everyone right up to date. My excuse is that it has dragged on for so long and I try not to let it take over my life entirely. In short, if you’ve not been following the saga, in 2016 the Council agreed to sell the whole Town Hall complex to hotel developers Mastcraft, without having checked whether it was theirs to sell. To their surprise they found the Victoria Hall and the Prince’s Hall below are not theirs. They belong to a charity of which the Council is just the trustee.  The buildings were paid for from a crowd funding campaign to celebrate Queen Victoria, on land donated by the Council, which they said was surplus to their requirements.There have been, and remain, strong objections to the loss of this community asset which has served the people of Ealing so well.  The objections were led by Friends of the Victoria Hall who tried repeatedly but in vain to discuss the situation both with the Council and the Charity Commission, aiming to find a better arrangement than the one the Council signed. At every stage they were rebuffed. In September 2023 the First-tier tribunal ruled that the ‘scheme’ drawn up by the Charity Commission to approve the deal was not in the best interests of the Charity and they instructed the Commission to revise it.  As Phil rightly reckons, they produced a new scheme published at https://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Details.aspx?PDFName=102398. Tony Miller and I (the named appellants against the previous scheme) and FoVH as a whole have objected to this new scheme as we remain unhappy with it.The Commission must now decide what to do next. We don’t know how long this will take, but if they approve this new scheme, we have a right to appeal against it. Meanwhile the Victoria and Prince’s Halls are shut down for reasons which, as Arthur notes, are totally unclear. To all intents and purposes, the Victoria Hall Trust has ceased to operate and this means the people of Ealing no longer have access to facilities they have enjoyed for the previous 130 years. It’s in no one’s interests for this state of affairs to keep dragging, on but I’m sure there’s a way out of this impasse if only the Council and its trustees would work with us to find one.  Lastly, can I thank everyone for their very generous support for us in pursuing this. This has been quite overwhelming and it demonstrates that selling the Victoria Hall is simply wrong. 

Will French ● 76d

  👍

Rosco White ● 80d

Er, because you usually do.

Simon Hayes ● 80d

Why would I agree with it?

Philippa Bond ● 81d

You aren’t making any sense Philippa. Are you talking about Arthur’s first request for information or the one he made recently?However, it does appear that you are tacitly admitting that the council plan for the Town Hall is wrong.

Simon Hayes ● 81d

Why would I?I knew about Arthur's request for info but had heard nothing since  - and he has now confirmed that he hasn't either.The crowd funder is still running.  I donated something at the beginning.

Philippa Bond ● 81d

Philippa, pay attention. I was referring to a request Arthur put in several years ago about maintenance requirements for the whole Town Hall, not just the Victoria and Princes halls.About a decade ago the building had an £800,000 refurbishment. A couple of years later the building was suddenly deemed to be in need of major maintenance work, although details of this never got disclosed, hence Arthur’s request. The major reasoning for the hotel project (other than it being Julian Bell’s vainglorious attempt to make Ealing something it isn’t) was that the hotel proprietor would maintain the rest of the building, thus saving us loads of cash.It seems the council used this as an excuse not to maintain any of the fabric of the building in the ensuing years. Quite simply a dereliction of duty. They have managed to spend well over £2 million on legal fees for this project, our money that would have been better spent on Ealing’s flagship building.Of course you will find some spurious reason to defend this policy, but it is frankly indefensible.

Simon Hayes ● 83d

Simon - pay attention. I was specifically asking about Arthur's request for info.

Philippa Bond ● 83d

Arthur, did you ever get a response ftt try on the council about all the alleged repairs required for the Town Hall? Must be a few years you’ve been waiting for that. Hope you don’t have such a long wait for this request!

Simon Hayes ● 84d

I have asked by email both the leader of the Council and the chief exec for the report that closed VH and TH. For sure there was onebut clearly slight of hand works in the magic circles and secrets and "lies" in political circles. I am waiting for a copy of that report. Please

Arthur Breens ● 85d

Simon - I hadn't realised that you'd been following this so closely.What has your response been to the last dated entry on the chronology webpage?

Phil Kay ● 91d

Amazed that you have only just caught up Philippa, this has been out there for years. Maybe it wasn’t in the Labour Party literature you get!

Simon Hayes ● 92d

No he did not, and Arthur is very precise in his questioning. Of course, there may have been no works required at that point…..

Simon Hayes ● 92d

Thanks for the link to the chronology.  It is good to catch up.  I don't think that Arthur Breens ever got a reply to his questions on the work that had or hadn't been done on the Victoria Hall or why exactly it was suddenly deemed to be in breach of regulations, did he?

Philippa Bond ● 92d

I've answered some of my own questions by looking on the site that Eric Leach posted:https://savethevictoriahall.weebly.com/chronology.html

Phil Kay ● 98d