Forum Topic

Garden Waste Collection- reduced service- increased charge

Having just received a renewal notice for garden waste collection from the Council, I noticed that there will no longer be collections between 1 December and 1 March, when the council says that demand is low. This month reduction represents an effective 25% increase in the charge in addition to  an annual increase from £82.07 to £96.50 (5.5% increase). Anyone with a garden knows that things do not stop growing and need clearing between December and March. This 'hidden' increased charge should be challenged by writing to the council and your local councillor.

Philip Woods ● 73d43 Comments

Gosh Philippa, you do like a diversion or obfuscation.It’s not tunnel vision to state that the council is offering a worse service for more money. Forget the other local authorities, even though they ALL do more than Ealing; this is about a deliberate hoodwinking of subscribers to a service who may not even have read the small print in the reminder email.If it’s about money then perhaps spanking the millions pursuing a boutique hotel in the Town Hall would have been better spent elsewhere. Or perhaps  as ps the £25,000 uplift in Special Responsibility Allowances for cabinet members, equating to £250,000 a year. Just to spell it for you, Philippa, that equates to one million pounds over four years. Value for money?As for weeds, well perhaps you’d better start campaigning for equal rights for them. I know quite a lot about gardening, more than you’d imagine, and the whole rewilding idea is built on a fallacious argument. By all means have a wilder area in your garden, that’s actually a good idea, but don’t make it all about that otherwise you end up with less desirable results.You let the thugs run riot in your garden and you end up with less biodiversity than you started with. Apart from nettles and bindweed, there are plenty of other plants that will take over, such as green alkanet, that are okay if confined but will rampage if given half a chance. What you also have to consider is what’s okay in your garden might not be okay next door.Have you written to Costigan and your local councillors to ask them to reconsider their change to the collections? I doubt it.

Simon Hayes ● 63d

Simon  You are far too tunnel-visioned.History IS important.  This was for the whole country.Nigel did post some info I agree and I looked at it but he missed that Brent only have a once a month collection in winter instead of fortnightly. It isn't that easy to find all the info because you really need to talk to people who are actually involved with or use the different systems. I laughed out loud when I read Guy Singh-Watson of Riverford's account of his offer to dig out bindweed in a vegetable patch for someone else.  Bindweed is a pain and is  a weed just like many others that you have to keep on top of.  Gardening is like that it changes from day to day what needs attention because it depends on so many things that are out of and will stay out of your control. I've dug up masses of nettles and masses of brambles and other unwanted plants in my lifetime of clearing orchards and gardens but that doesn't mean that they should ALL be dug up or that they should all be annihilated to the detriment of the soil and to all wildlife including us as the court cases over Parkinson's Disease continue. The changes to the climate as well as our behaviour have damaged and are depleting numbers. I've already said that I think someone at the Council thought this to be a simple monetary gain but I think they as well as us may actually lose much more than gain.Have you seen any of Ealing's compost being offered to residents recently?

Philippa Bond ● 63d

You’ve really missed the point Philippa.Sharing a bin to reduce the cost burden won’t get it collected between December and March, will it? I already share with a neighbour, which is why the bin is always full. A shredder to chop it up won’t make a shred of difference. And even a once a month collection in winter is better than none, especially for people who don’t have access to a vehicle to take their waste to Greenford.Saying you didn’t think it should have been charged for in the first place is completely irrelevant. Ealing have charged for years and - this is the thing you seem to find hard to comprehend - the council appears to think it’s fine to charge more for a worse service. If this was any other organisation you’d doubtless be crying foul immediately.Nigel has posted the charges (or indeed lack of charges) from neighbouring boroughs. Easy enough to find if you scroll through.I think that’s the first time I’ve heard racism used in the context of weeds. Are you sure it’s not another type of weed you’ve been indulging in to come up with such nonsense There are plenty of weeds that aren’t particularly great to have in a garden. Bindweed and ground elder are very common and aren’t much benefit to insects, particularly when they swamp the plants that do provide the habitats and food sources for our pollinators. Some ‘weeds’ are just wild flowers but it’s almost impossible to prevent them setting seed once established. Oh, and nettles spread via stolons and rhizomes as well as seed, and I suggest you go and see how much fun it is to dig out a large and established clump in your garden. I doubt most people would be happy to see their small plots overrun with them.But all that is beside the point. You have to admit that the council has made a big mistake with this new policy.

Simon Hayes ● 63d

So I've suggested ways that you can mitigate the expense for instance sharing garden waste bins and reducing the volume, having already said that I did not and do not think that the service should ever have been introduced as a paying service.  Although of course no doubt there are those who don't have gardens who would prefer not to subsidise anyone else - just as they would prefer not to pay for schools that they don't use or the care services they don't use etc etc - but may need in the future.  However that is not the point of Council services and with gardens they are good for the wellbeing of everyone, as well as helping to mitigate the flash flooding by slowing the rainwater from the increased sudden downpours we are now getting from reaching our Victorian combined rainwater and sewage systems.Twickenham now has a new Library of Things but unfortunately not a garden shredder - so far.I consider the obsession with weeds completely racist.  They are simply plants that are out of place.  A lot of them are important for insects.  Bees love dandelions.  At least five butterflies lay their eggs on nettles.  Generally you need to make sure they don't get a chance to seed.  There are only a couple of these plants which are a big problem and one of those - Japanese Knotweed - is NOT supposed to even go in the garden waste collection AT ALL and you can find yourself being prosecuted if you allow it to encroach on your neighbours' land or you try and dispose of it how and where you shouldn't.  BTW Brent has a monthly collection during the winter months and doesn't collect Christmas trees (which is what a lot of Brent residents put in their garden waste bin) but they do have some collection places for Christmas trees in parks just as Ealing does.But does any other of our local Councils have such a high yearly subscription rate?  I haven't found one.  And when did you last see a Council compost giveaway in Ealing?  Years ago I remember posting about them to advertise them.

Philippa Bond ● 63d

Cllr Costigan says she’s a gardener, though I doubt she does more than dabble, rather like her bike riding.If you do any horticulture qualifications you will know that the supposed dead time in winter is the most important time of the year in the garden. As Raymond points out there are plenty of jobs to be done, not least because those jobs can’t be done in Spring or Summer when plants are in full growth and parts of the garden are inaccessible.Philippa seems to think it’s not an issue, but she’d love some perennial weeds establishing themselves in her tidy plot to swamp her petunias in summer. Having a bonfire is actually a good method of disposing of such weeds and diseased plants but try having one of those in Ealing.Of course the real point is that the council is charging more for a significantly worse service. Only a fool would willingly sign up for that!

Simon Hayes ● 64d

'The quietest months"  Another quote from some expert who thinks horticulture is all done on an App or gets someone in do do it all.Leaf clearance -  Not all varieties are safe for composting.Diseased and rotting vegetation, again, not always safe for composting.Pruning.Removing deadwood and twigs to prevent wind storm damage to property including that of neighbours.These are all winter tasks and whilst gardens may look bleak this it he time to do things - before birds start nesting and wildlife is least active.So this means more bonfires to remove the risk of contamination,Pruning at the wrong times which threatens wildlife.Just what planet are these 'experts on'?One local street near my South Ealing Office, a handful of residents bagged near 180 sacks of leaves then gathered hundreds of fallen twigs which were stacked tidily. They have done this several times since the mid summer leaf fall.  The bags and the twigs were eventually collected but not before they were splitting and the twigs scattering.  Gulleys all around are thick with muched leaves and now with the taint of Fox waste, not really for spreading on your rosesBut the claims of justification by LBE are just pathetic and a complete example of 'Fluffy Rose tinted and highly ignorant take on reality"

Raymond Havelock ● 64d

I’m not sure Philippa is someone I’d go to for horticultural advice.

Simon Hayes ● 68d

Which makes Ealing's offer look even worse doesn't it Philippa?

N V Brooks ● 68d

In Richmond if you only have a small amount of garden waste you can buy bags and don't have to pay the subscription.  You can also pay half a year's subscription (you do need to buy their bin) and it is less.

Philippa Bond ● 68d

It's not a cut though is it? It's an increased charge for a reduced service. A service that is delivered more frequently at a lower cost by every neighbouring borough.Surely even the most blinkered Labour obsessive must agree that this is not acceptable.

N V Brooks ● 68d

Re-reading the OP's original post and knowing the obsession with Council cuts of some on here I realise we've all ignored the current thinking on preparinggardens for the winter ie that we shouldn't continue with the old habits of clearing and cleaning gardens to the extent we did - which has been made too easy to over obsessively practice with the aid of new gadgets available to make it easier to achieve especially when the articles available to read are often  written by the makers or sellers of those products.  Here is a good explanatory reference (and I do realise it is American) but it does show well why not to hoover up or pressure hose under every hedge and round every door and winfow frame etc hose (yes, I've seen it).  We've lost so much wildlife and we're destroying their habitats, hibernation spots and food.  Even less or no digging is now advocated:https://savvygardening.com/6-reasons-not-to-clean-up-your-garden-this-fall/

Philippa Bond ● 68d

Good for you Phillipa. My garden isn’t particularly big, but I do a lot in it, and the front garden too. Things grow, things need cutting back, things need weeding. All at different times of the year. Perhaps I’ll concrete over the whole lot to save the bother.As I said before (do listen dear) I shared with a neighbour so there were two garden’s worth of material. Often there would be bags of stuff waiting for the bin to be emptied.Taking it to the tip is an option but who wants to put mucky bags in the car, particularly in winter when the material is wet? Not many. Doesn’t bother me, but I think it’ll just go in the general waste bin outside instead. Besides, doesn’t Costigan bleat on about reducing car driving in Ealing all the time, yet she positively encourages it here? You can’t have it both ways. That’s the thing you can’t seem to accept.What difference does it make being cheaper for the elderly? They are still being charged more for a worse service. Anyone who thinks that’s acceptable is as dim as Costigan and her chums.

Simon Hayes ● 69d

Simon  I presume that you must have a large garden.  Many people in Ealing don't.  We don't.  We don't even put one bag out each fortnight.  As Deidre Costigan said we residents can take our green waste to Greenford free.  Stirling Road was my preference going about three times a year but I no longer have a car (written off by a lunch-eating delivery driver) and anyway newer cars have alarms that can be triggered by a spider so my habit of filling one bag at a time and putting it in a car is verboten.BTW if you are elderly the price is reduced.

Philippa Bond ● 69d

Snouts firmly in the trough.

N V Brooks ● 69d

Costigan's response was, to be frank, bullshit. Did you read my post about what other boroughs charge. I know that this was a criticism of you beloved Labour party, but 'economies with the truth' must be called out.

N V Brooks ● 69d

If Ealing council is so keen to cut costs, here’s a very easy way to trim the fat.Councillor allowances:Basic allowance up to 2022: £9,708Basic allowance from May 2022: £12,499.37Cabinet member special responsibility allowance pre 2022: £16,032Cabinet member special responsibility allowance from May 22: £41,470.34Council leader SRA pre 2022: £32,100Council leader SRA from May 2022: £57,076.34So Cllr Costigan and her cabinet colleagues pocket £54,000 a year each for ignoring residents who question their competence to do the job. These increases were proposed by the Labour councillors as their first act following the 2022 election, despite 12 years of bleating about government funding cuts, shutting down services and making low paid council employees redundant (including professional librarians).And yet they still say there need to be savings made. Funny how they aren’t looking at their own gravy train.

Simon Hayes ● 69d

Philippa Bond always seems to be an apologist for the facilitators of Baby P's Murder Party/ officious inept jobsworth virtue signallers party, that are the Labour Party. In Ealing Borough, Labour are that party.

Anthony Hawran ● 69d

I use the system every time, full bin each time, cost shared with a neighbour. Been that way for well over a decade. That’s even with having a compost bin in the gardensIt’s not digging my heels in, as you suggest, it’s pointing out that the council is extracting the urine by charging more for a reduced service. They didn’t advertise the fact and the information is buried deep in the text of the reminder email. A lot of people will sign up and then wonder where their collections have gone during winter. They certainly didn’t discuss it with the other parties in the council and I know that they have had a lot of correspondence from residents on the matter.Cllr Costigan is being disingenuous. She’s the one telling us to cut car journeys and yet this decision will result in more traffic heading to the tip, if people can be bothered. As I said, making recycling more difficult means people do it less. And as Nigel posted, the neighbouring councils all still offer a 12 month service. Costigan hasn’t produced any evidence of the savings that will be made, despite being asked. As I said, if savings need to be made they should start with their own allowances and the amounts handed over to consultants. Not has she said what happens with the collection crews. Are they laid off for three months?Unlike you Phillipa I don’t have hours of spare time on my hands to set up groups. The point of the council service is it encourages recycling. Kerbside collection of material that goes off to be professionally processed is far preferable to any alternative. Besides, where is all the shredded material the residents produce going to go? Sit in a big pile until the council comes back in March?Frankly, this change underlines just how unhinged Ealing Council’s green policies are. Obsessed with cycling but happy to build on Metropolitan Open Land, close down recycling centres and support Heathrow expansion. Anyone who defends them really does need their heads examined.

Simon Hayes ● 69d

The answer to everything in life isn't just to dig your heels in and insist on no change.  There ARE other Councils who don't collect all year round. In fact I was surprised that Ealing did.  Whether they stop for three months is another matter - do they?  If they didn't think they could make cuts and make savings then why would they suggest it?  It is not what I would choose as I don't think they have looked further than their spreadsheet and appreciated the bigger picture. I have NEVER suggested that everyone should fork out for new things. Hammersmith has a Library of Things but unfortunately it doesn't include a garden shredder although it does include a paper shredder because I looked at this a long time ago.  Ealing ACT considered setting one up but it doesn't look as though they achieved this.  Previous to this there has been another system where neighbours were borrowing tools from each other locally.  I expect people may be using another forum when looking to borrow or share gardening and other tools. I know of others in the country called Shared Shed or something along those lines. "Who are all these people who are supposed to ‘get together’?"  You talked about your neighbours but do you actually talk to them?  We only have a small amount of space and we have bags instead of bins so it is very obvious how little gets put out especially during the winter months along the street.  There didn't even seem to be as many Christmas trees put out on the street this year but there were definitely still lots that had been taken to the parks for chipping - even though unfortunately the Council info varied from the twitter message and the website message.It sounds like you are just making a stand just for the sake of it.  Instead of whingeing about it and attacking anyone who doesn't agree completely with you why don't you consider setting up a group if you can't find one?  How do you think any other groups come about?  Perhaps an established group such as Friends of the Earth do something like this.  I don't know.  I did put a message on one of these sites at one time asking where I could hire a garden shredder from and someone replied but I didn't follow through because other things in life intervened.Deidre Costigan's letter sounded like a good response - although obviously not what you wanted to hear.  BTW How much do you actually use the system?

Philippa Bond ● 69d

Oh dear, Philippa, you are tying yourself in knots here.The simple solution is for the council to continue to provide a 12 month service. Telling people to organise themselves and fork out for machinery they only occasionally use is all very well, but the council has an existing operation that functions well enough and is already taxpayer funded.Who are all these people who are supposed to ‘get together’?

Simon Hayes ● 69d

Or, better yet, elect a council that isn't obsessed with with active travel and actually delivers core services like recycling.

N V Brooks ● 69d

You can hire shredders and there certainly also used to be organisations where you could borrow tools from.  Or why not set one up?  They definitely aren't all huge and difficult to use.  Even better why not find a local company.  Why does everybody keep trying to do everything separately incurring more cost and effort instead of getting together?

Philippa Bond ● 69d

Unfortunately Philippa you are assuming that people have access to these things. None of my neighbours currently using the service do. They also have the disadvantage of being quite expensive to buy, heavy to move and bulky to store. Other than that they are great!You seem to have missed the point about the non collection for three months. There will be an awful lot of ‘staggered’ material piled up by March, probably saturated, slimy and generally unpleasant.I’ve said before that making it more difficult to recycle actively discourages people from doing so. If it’s a choice between putting something in a bin that the council collects or taking something to a destination miles away, which do you think most people would opt for? Councillors can lecture us all they like but human beings naturally choose the easy option. You have to also bear in mind that a proportion of subscribers are older and may not actually be physically capable of shifting large and heavy bags of waste, even around their own property.I detect a hint of admission that the council have got it wrong? They will take a financial hit with this. They aren’t getting my £96.50 this year.

Simon Hayes ● 69d

Philippa, that does not change the fact that Labour run Ealing Council seem to be disingenuous and wilfully inept slime that is blighting the borough of Ealing.

Anthony Hawran ● 69d

Sharing a shredder also helps to reduce the volume of garden waste if you are cutting back shrubs.It shouldn't be too difficult to stagger the amount you put out with a neighbour by discussion and agreement!I would have thought that the Council are in danger of losing more money if they find that take up drops.Don't forget there are gardening companies but unless garden waste is declared free for them that will incur business charges and you have to be sure that your waste won't be fly-tipped and will be legally disposed of.More paving will increase the heat in the summer by increasing the heat sink effect.

Philippa Bond ● 69d

TwaddleHillingdon - free 51 week collectionRichmond £82.00 26 collections per year or you can opt for 13 collections for £41.00Hounslow £65.00 (two week break at Christmas)Hammersmith Free (for up to five 'sturdy' sacks every fortnight).Brent £60.00 fortnightly collection no breakHarrow 69.00 fortnightly collection no breakTherefore any claim of 'benchmarking' or move to a three season service is clearly untrue, at least locally.

N V Brooks ● 69d

Response from Cllr Costigan. She’s not terribly convincing. Last part seems to be off a press release. FYI, none of our neighbouring boroughs are moving to a ‘three season service’.‘Hi Simon,Thank you for your email.The cost of the garden waste service for this year has risen in line with inflation in order to in some way reflect the cost to the council of providing the service. The service currently costs the council a significant amount to provide, even after subscriptions from residents are taken into account.The reality is that like many councils, we are now in the position where about 70% of our funding has to be spent on adult and children's social care, both of which are statutory services which we are required to provide by law. This leaves very little for other services and we are therefore unable to continue to substantially subsidise the garden waste service which is a discretionary service, not required by law, and which is offered to residents like myself who are lucky enough to have a garden.We have benchmarked the service against other councils across London and this has identified that many councils are increasingly moving to a three season service which pauses in the low growth winter months after leaf fall, where it does not make sense to spend precious council resources on collecting significantly lower amounts of garden waste.If needed garden waste can still be taken to the household waste and recycling centre in Greenford over the winter months and disposed of for free. Compost bins are another low carbon alternative if you need to dispose of garden waste in the low growth months. Sharing a garden waste bin with a neighbour is also an option which can help reduce the cost of the service overall.Regards,Deirdre.’

Simon Hayes ● 69d

So you admit the council has got this wrong then, Philippa?Too expensive for many it seems. Sharing with a neighbour only works if you don’t both need to fill the bin at the same time.

Simon Hayes ● 70d

Sharing the cost with a neighbour or between neighbours helps.  We get three bags but put very few out for collection.  I wish I had counted the number of bags I put out all year because it is already too expensive for the amount of times I use it.  With a very small garden, I always intended to get a green Johanna or hot composter but never did and space is of the essence.  I've had a wormery which I've been using since long before the food collections.

Philippa Bond ● 70d

Sorry Philippa, but that’s just not true. Many people still home compost, but a lot of gardens don’t have space for a proper composting system involving multiple bins or heaps. The mix of materials in those bins or heaps is also crucial, and a lot of people get it wrong, as they do with the size of cuttings added to it.There are certain weeds with seeds that won’t be killed off at the lower temperatures of most garden composting piles and are better dealt with at commercial operators.Offering a collection service actually encourages people to garden more, if they know the material is not going to lie in a big pile for months.You really do need to admit that Ealing Council has got it wrong on this one. Frankly, offering a worse service for more money is insulting.

Simon Hayes ● 70d

So, it's OUR fault that Ealing are ripping people off?On refelction, it probably is as there are fools who keep voting them in

N V Brooks ● 70d

Of course the offer of a free collection came first which meant that instead of home composting and the adding of organic compost to gardens which increases the health and absorbency of the soil - and gardening is good exercise and good therapy - many people just stopped doing this.

Philippa Bond ● 70d

So blame the government?If other Labour controlled local authorities can provide this service, and charge significantly less for it, then why can’t Ealing? The service pays for itself. If it was such a financial burden it would be totally scrapped.Interesting that you mention consultants. Ealing spends huge amounts on these ‘experts’, money that might be better spent elsewhere.And on the subject of funding, Philippa, can you explain why a ‘cash strapped’ council like Ealing managed to find the money to massively increase the councillor allowances immediately after the last election? Not a great message to send out to taxpayers, particularly when those councillors seldom listen to the people they purport to serve.

Simon Hayes ● 70d

I don't think it should ever have been charged for.  However it was one of the ways that all Councils were told that they could raise money by the Consultants that they employed to help them reduce costs to help them deal with the reduction in Govt funding.  What was not considered was the amount of concreting and loss of valuable greenery that would result as a consequence.  So instead our air quality and general wellbeing was reduced and our risk of flash flooding increased.

Philippa Bond ● 70d

This is a very cynical and duplicitous rip-off by the Ealing council grifters. If, as they claim, demand is low from Dec to Mar, they could simply double the number of streets covered by each crew. But the fact is that, along with normal winter garden waste, there are loads of leaves that need recycling from gardens during this period, because street sweeping is now virtually non existent and so front gardens fill with leaf waste whenever the wind blows. So now it’ll just go into the black bag waste and reduce Ealing recycling stats even further.  Another own goal by the Mason/Costigan idiocracy.

Peter Millman ● 71d

It’s just laziness. Doubtless the money is being diverted elsewhere.Sadly for LBE it will have to do without a contribution from me this year.

Simon Hayes ● 72d

The service from Ealing is simply pathetic. Hounslow,not noted for being cheap, charge £65.00 for collections on 50 weeks of the year. Hillingdon make no charge at all with a weekly connection save for one week break at Christmas. Slough charge £50 a year with the two week break at Christmas. Ealing just think we are mugs to be milked at every opportunity.

N V Brooks ● 72d

Sorry Phillipa, meant to say it goes off to incinerators or shipped abroad. Either way it’s not made into compost.You are remarkably quiet on this. Surely Eco Bond has a link to post? Or do you agree that it’s a good idea to reduce this service by 25 percent?By my calculations my last collection this year would be November 18, and the next one on March 10, best part of four months. So more like reduced by a third.

Simon Hayes ● 72d

What landfill?

Philippa Bond ● 72d

My advice for the three months when ‘demand is low’ is to simply put your cuttings in the black bin and send it to landfill. So much for a ‘green’ council. They are pretty stupid on the whole.

Simon Hayes ● 72d

Yes, I saw that tucked away in the small print at the bottom. It’s nonsense of course because as any experienced gardener will tell you, there’s tons of cutting material generated during the period from December to March, even in a small garden.Roses get pruned in February. Trees are always cut back in winter during dormancy. Large shrubs such as laurel are pruned in January. It’s an absolute lie on the part of the council to claim demand is low. They only collect every fortnight and you can fill a bin very easily in that time.In my experience with this ‘service’ it’s very hit and miss. Are they laying off the crews for those three months? I doubt it.

Simon Hayes ● 72d

Put them all on gardening leave

Peter Yale ● 72d

I've noticed it as well! If you are an OAP you get a discount but reducing the collections by 25% is too much. I'll have to do as you suggest, contact my local councillors (Labour ) and have a moan.

Peter Tolhust ● 73d