Forum Topic

West Ealing Pub Murder

Am I shocked or surprised?That stretch of West Ealing was never the best, a bit “raw” shall we say; but you were never in fear for your life drinking in that little triangle of pubs.Seems things getting a bit worse around that area and a bit beyond.Don’t know any background so won’t speculate but just say NOBODY should pop out for a drink on a Saturday night and not come home because someone had picked up a blade and taken it with them on a night out. There are no winners RIP to the victim

Colin Goodman ● 1144d75 Comments

Sadly correct, 21 year old daughter charged.

N V Brooks ● 1120d

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62570923WTF is going on? An 80 year old man on a mobility scooter stabbed to death in Greenford.

N V Brooks ● 1120d

My money on daughter killing mum, sadly

Peter Yale ● 1120d

Sadly yes. This time with an immediate arrest.

N V Brooks ● 1120d

now another 58 YO murdered in Boddington Gardens

Simon Wycombe ● 1120d

That wouldn't be a  great surprise, nor drugs. But quite a long way from home.

Simon Wycombe ● 1121d

Rumour has it, relationship issues

Peter Yale ● 1121d

One from Hampstead, the other Islington.Seems very odd goings on, to me.

Simon Wycombe ● 1121d

Paul James et al.I am speaking generally as the usual criminal is not 58 y o ,is often a teenager whereby the father has disappeared years ago.I have no stats to back this up but bet I am not too far wide of the mark. I would expect my kids to be respecting me as well as the law when it comes to crime.

Simon Wycombe ● 1129d

Same in my school( I loved it, but that’s another thread)Seriously, it taught us wrong from right & I knew damned well to never do that particular wrong again.You will never stop sicko, psycho mad , wrong uns.Ian Huntley, Bolger killers. All the *****s you read about as a minor indiscretion every week.Play stations, sky tv. Mustn’t infringe their “ yuman rights”

Peter Yale ● 1129d

Corporal punishment is no good. I remember we had it at school. One of the last countries to have it in school besides Russia. Slipper cane etc.

Nicholas Beard ● 1129d

Where was the father figure.The alleged assailant is 58 years old!

David Burke ● 1130d

I don’t get relevance - ur not a father then?It’s important to have a father figure, discipline for one.My mum slapped the back of my legs, & if in real trouble, it was wait until your father gets home. Oh oh.Taught me right from wrong, discipline & respect

Peter Yale ● 1130d

>Nowadays there is no Father figure.You're not a father then?

Paul James ● 1130d

Yes, broken home etc being the classic. Haven't we all but i didn't go out stabbing, stealing etc.

Simon Wycombe ● 1131d

And tied in with that, it's never the perpetrator's fault either, there's ALWAYS some urine poor excuse for their naughty behaviour .......... which inevitably results in ludicrously lenient "justice" being dispensed.

Rosco White ● 1131d

In our day most of us were more scared of our Dad's than we were the Police.Nowadays there is no Father figure. That's the biggest problem.

Simon Wycombe ● 1131d

Exactly Mr W.As a wanna be jack the lad, back in the day. The SPG were patrolling .A gang of us giving it large ,we were pulled up.I was led around the corner by one & asked for name etc.A slight knee to the Crown Jewels brought me down to earth.I stayed in for over a week, making every excuse to my parents possible about why I wasn’t out,Same as my first ever after hours drink 1 Sunday night.Carefully rehearsed, I was ready to phone my employers with usual excuses for not going in,Back down to earth with a massive bang, my mum was at top of stairs at 2am, when I staggered in, querying a 7am start.Any thoughts of bunking off, gone.I hated it, but sure as hell appreciate it & see why now.Did me no harm whatsoever

Peter Yale ● 1132d

We need to get rid once and for all of the PC Woke BS - a clip round the ear and "Don't come back" has worked, and VERY well, for hundreds of years.Ever since we've had these Lefty Liberal "modern" ideas forced on us nothing works anymore because there's zero deterrent.I mean, take their booze off them, that works really well doesn't it .... 🤣

Rosco White ● 1132d

As I recall it was set up in the light of the Alice Gross abhorrent murder.A lot of undesirables were gathering & rightly so, people were complaining.When it was brought to the fore due to the bad publicity, these restrictions were put in place.Now the furore has died down, business as usual, every pond life is back & drinks to excess, causing hassle, a blind eye turned

Peter Yale ● 1132d

I have just looked at the current PSPO and it does not ban street drinking per se only where those imbibing are involved in anti-social behaviour.The text "You are required to..............Stop drinking alcohol, or anything which the authorised officer reasonably believes to be alcohol, if asked to do so by an authorised officer because they reasonably believe that you have been engaging in anti-social behaviour."

N V Brooks ● 1132d

I thought that it already had a Public Space Protection Order to reduce the number of street drinkers.

N V Brooks ● 1133d

Something at Hanwell Clock tower.Can that place not be cleaned up /be classed as an ''ASBO'' area?

Simon Wycombe ● 1133d

We've been Lefty pussy footing with criminals for decades now, treating them with "Respect" and other BS, and it ain't workin'.Time to try the diammetrical opposite for a few years and see wot happens?Somehow I think that MUCH harsher sentencing would have the desired effect?PARTICULARLY regarding carrying a knife.  Let alone using one........

Rosco White ● 1139d

Well said Mr W.

Peter Yale ● 1139d

Perhaps, but the current System of smacking their bottoms ain't exactly working is it?!!  😂

Rosco White ● 1139d

Prisons or the prison system? Because prison systems vary all over the place, with wildly differing results.

Paul James ● 1139d

>Don’t let them out again. If they do reoffend, three strikes & outmaking prisons in the USA brutal places that affect people that go to them very badly, and then they come out, affect others, end up back in for life, affecting others, repeat.A brutal ridiculous approach.

Paul James ● 1139d

It would seem that prisons DO work, and if you read the relevant section in "Freakonomics" you will see valid data to back that assertion up.  😁

Rosco White ● 1139d

Don’t let them out again. If they do reoffend, three strikes & out

Peter Yale ● 1139d

The more people you bang-up the greater the reoffending is. Unlike in Holland or Norway, our prison system offers nothing in terms of rehabilitation. Why when the prison population was at 50,000 was the reofffending rate 50%, yet today the reoffending is a startling 70%? That's the proofThere is not more crime than there was 10 years ago, but just longer sentences for the same offences. The historical sex offences being processed also make a massive contribution to the rise. This explains why, by age, the over 50's are the fastest growing group amongst the prison population.

Ben Owen ● 1139d

Seriously?Over 24,000 homicides, prisons full to bursting. If that's you idea of 'society' count me out.With three work colleagues, we were less than fifteen feet away from a guy shot dead at the wheel of his car by DEA agents. The guy next to him was chased into the Boston restaurant where we were having a drink by another DEA agent brandishing a pistol. We seemed to be the only people phased by this, others showed resigned acceptance. Even our host, a Havard and MIT educated 'pocket genius' from an old Bostonian family  just shrugged.It will take generations to rid American society from such indifference towards the life of another.

N V Brooks ● 1139d

Shows it’s working. No convicted ******ers walking the streets, on a tag.Wow, some hardship.Manacled in the dock, no laughing & disrespect.Proper sentences with capital punishment a possibility.No complaints here

Peter Yale ● 1139d

Societal inequality issues that make our disparities look insignificant and the almost uncontrolled availability of firearms.In the UK there were 695 homicide victims in the year ending March 2020 of which 30 involved firearms.In the US in the 2020 calendar year there were 19384 firearm related murders, the toal homicide count was still being tabulated but is estimated at c.24.500. In Japan, which has very strict gun ownership laws, there were nine homicides involving guns out of a total of 318 homicides.When I worked in the USA it was almost as easy in New Hampshire to buy a shotgun or simple rifle as it was to buy a bag of potato chips.

N V Brooks ● 1140d

how so, their prisons are full of people and they have to build more all the time, it's clearly not working there at all, jus the opposite in fact.

Paul James ● 1140d

Does that happen in the USA too?There system seems to be  a lot better

Peter Yale ● 1140d

Automatic life sentence for murder, a sentence that stays with the person for their whole life.But many people mistakenly think a sentence is a sentence in prison, but actually it's just a sentence and may consist of imprisonment, a fine, or other sanctions or a mixture of all of them or just some of them.

Paul James ● 1140d

A good point. When reading the reports that I referenced above it did state that the incidence of recidivism for violent crime was extremely low. Most repeat offences where a jail sentence was deemed appropriate were for theft and/ or drugs.

N V Brooks ● 1140d

Remember that all prisoners guilty of murder are released 'on licence' at the end of their sentence.  This can mean instant return to prison if licence terms are breached.

Thelma Leach ● 1140d

Hardly 'half of the reason' as we still live in a realtively safe country.Only 7% of custodial sentences in 2017-2018 (last year available) related to murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, threats to kill and endangering life. Source: CivitasThe total number of murderers incarcerated still represents a low percentage of the overall prison population with the drmatic increases being in 'other violence against the person' 'robbery', 'sexual offences' 'theft' and 'drugs offences'.Source: UK Prison Population Statistics, House of Commons Library

N V Brooks ● 1140d

I don’t need any particular knowledge as such.I read the papers, look at recent parole board decisions .Sentences passed usually means only 2/3 of term completed

Peter Yale ● 1140d

10 years ago the average sentence for murder was 10 years. Today the same offence carries an average sentence of 18 years. Sentences are increasing. This is one half of the reason why the prison population has grown to 88,600. It is not helpful, Peter, to make claims on a subject that you have no knowledge about.

Ben Owen ● 1140d

seems random to just go into a pub and stab a stranger for no reason? Ray Walk looks dodgy.

Simon Wycombe ● 1141d

Well, I'm not bothered by any of the postings, these sites often go off on tangents when the initial subject is quite serious - it's a Forum!

Rosco White ● 1141d

Maybe me Mr W, not clear

Peter Yale ● 1141d

Moi?  Or Mr James?  Or both?

Rosco White ● 1141d

A man is dead - violently murdered, and all you can think of is to use it to score petty points.You should be ashamed of yourself.

Patrick Hollywood ● 1141d

Some scumbag 58 year old from Islington.Another 11 year “life “ sentence handed down

Peter Yale ● 1141d

He's been named but not the victim. 58 y o would you believe?

Simon Wycombe ● 1142d

"No, road danger is, and pollution and climate change.The numbers speak for themselves."Ha Ha. Tell ya wot, I know which worries me the most walking back home late at night down Horn Lane, or from North Acton Tube.......... 😆

Rosco White ● 1142d

It’s not premeditated murder either.

Peter Yale ● 1142d

I imagine the government classify suicides as avoidable mortality under drug related or injury.It's academic though, the idea that stabbings feature anywhere near any of the main causes of avoidable mortality as Rosco suggested is clearly way off the mark.https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/avoidablemortalityinenglandandwales/2020

Paul James ● 1143d

v blingy.Doesn't look like a 'locals' pub.It'll be interesting to see the demographics of the culprit.

Simon Wycombe ● 1143d

& tragic as it is, procedures are put in place, however there’s no deliberate  acts.You will never eliminate pollution totally.And  my figures were from a Google search - biggest killer in UKDudnt mention any of your channelled & biased search

Peter Yale ● 1143d

>Your list (vague & unsubstantiated) are accidents.Dying of a respiratory disease or cancer caused by carcinogens is not an accident.My list is a list of government categories of deaths considered avoidable.

Paul James ● 1143d

(I should say dying of a respiratory disease caused by bad air quality due to transport emissions is not an accident)

Paul James ● 1143d

CHERRY PICK!!!!!Kettles, greenhouses, stones etc.List I saw suicide was tops, another said Covid.Your list (vague & unsubstantiated) are accidents.Knife crime & killing is premeditated murder, no accidents there, purely deliberate

Peter Yale ● 1143d

It was the Star and Anchor - it's now the Star and Scorpion.  My book group used to meet there when it was a 'proper pub'.  It's gone all up-market and blingy.  Obviously the clientele has taken a turn for the worse.

Thelma Leach ● 1143d

The synapses linked and recollection kicked in. It was The Anchor then The New Anchor.

N V Brooks ● 1143d

I guess you want to cherry pick stabbings as it suits your narrative.

Paul James ● 1143d

Here's a list of avoidable mortality, many of these will be related to transport and pollution, including inactivity related to cardiovascular diseases etc..InfectionsNeoplasmsDrug use disordersCardiovascular diseasesRespiratory diseasesInjuries

Paul James ● 1143d

It changed it's name and for the life of me I can't remember what it used to be called.

N V Brooks ● 1143d

>London's arguably BIGGEST and Number One problem by far.No, road danger is, and pollution and climate change.The numbers speak for themselves.

Paul James ● 1143d

Looks v glitzy. Did it change its name or is it a new pub?

Simon Wycombe ● 1143d

Agree, it's gotta be said, Khan is a Total & Abject Failure as Mayor, he has done, and still does, NOTHING about knife crime, London's arguably BIGGEST and Number One problem by far.Too busy milking motorists and playing at environmental politics, the Petty Pipsqueak.Thank you Labour Voters for putting him back in - Outstanding!    😂

Rosco White ● 1143d

Plain cold blooded murder, in or out.Some **** went out with a knife, & etc.Now Sadiq Khan bangs on about net zero stuff. Accidental deaths, however tragic, yet always the motorists pay.Sort his priorities out

Peter Yale ● 1143d

The BBC say in the pub. My West London has woeful reporting BTW often placing whole streets in the wrong area on,von occasion, borough.

N V Brooks ● 1143d

Well, Ealing Today says "At" the pub, and My West London says "stabbed to death in the pub" in the headline and then "outside the pub" in the text of the story.So I'm not sure it's clear what went on yet.

Paul James ● 1144d

Haven't been there for ages but they had a really good chef and the beer was well kept. It's only recently undergone a major refurb.

N V Brooks ● 1144d

Place doesn't seem to be exactly a dump either, just goes to show you can't judge a book by its cover.Mind you, as we all know, ANY establishment can be unfortunate enough to have someting unsavoury happen on their premises.

Rosco White ● 1144d

I think that the relationship to this particular pub is made pretty clear by the article headline, "man killed at the Star and Scorpion".

N V Brooks ● 1144d

'A pound to a pinch of salt' . . . drugs related.  Ealing is swimming in the problem.  Like so many suburban areas . . .

Tony Heath ● 1144d

What relation does the pub have to the murder? It's not clear from the article.Articles on this site have previously tarnished pubs with bad names just because the indecent happened near it or outside it and many people use pubs as waypoints or points of interest.

Paul James ● 1144d

Tragic, at least this site reported the name of the pub.

N V Brooks ● 1144d

Another example of the incredibly poor media reporting.Every news organisation has printed little more than a rewording of a very vague Met Police report.No mention of traffic diversions and delays, no mention of the actual pub so tarnishes the entire area.Basic news reporting and even that cannot be done properly.So in the meantime all manner of rumour and speculation being talked about locally in coffee shops and the pub we've just been into.Hardly helps.

Raymond Havelock ● 1144d