Forum Topic

Drivers to be fined for something they could already be fined for from today, errr...

"From this Monday (27 June), fines will be issued to any motorist driving within or crossing the white lines of the cycle lanes that are marked by a solid white line and cycle tracks."It's already an offence to drive into a mandatory cycle lane and doing so has always meant drivers are subject to a fine, so the way this article is written is VERY puzzling!http://www.ealingtoday.co.uk/default.asp?section=community&link=http://neighbournet.com/server/common/contrans008.htm

Paul Richard James ● 1171d100 Comments

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Rosco White ● 1163d

I got unanswered questions too.He does a great job, no one agrees with any of his blinkered views.He wants velvet cycle paths with a naked maiden scattering rose petals before him.Any or all motored vehicles must be banned.All this funded by everyone, oh except his cycling crew

Peter Yale ● 1164d

Simon, it's over to you. Paul is totally incapable of answering a question perhaps you'd like to keep asking.

N V Brooks ● 1164d

Stop evading the subject Paul.FYI I never go to Southall, whether by bike, bus, car or flying pig.If you are so terrified of traffic you ought to reconsider where you live....

Simon Hayes ● 1164d

>Nobody is suggesting they cycle on a motorway.Have you ever ridden a bike from West Ealng to Southall Simon?

Paul Richard James ● 1164d

Paul, I have serious doubts about your mental capacity. Your response made no sense:‘They didn't feel safe cycling it, because of the traffic Simon, but they WANT to cycle there!‘With your idea that places with low "accident" stats are safe then that means it's safe to walk long a motorway or a train track?‘No, it's not safe to do that, they are the most dangerous places to be so people don't do that. Same for many roads in Ealing I suspect.‘Hay, nobody has been killed crossing this river full of crocodiles so it must be safe to cross!’Nobody is suggesting they cycle on a motorway. That would be stupid, and illegal. My point is that the accident stats are very low in Ealing. You can’t disprove that. So you resort to alarmist nonsense to try and make a weak point. Your added ‘I suspect’ underlined the feebleness of your argument. You could, of course, look up the relevant statistics. But you are simply too lazy/prejudiced/incompetent to do so.As far as I know there are no crocodiles in Ealing.

Simon Hayes ● 1164d

pjr supercilious knob.You want it all, anti car yet you drive.Pristine cycle lanes, yet contribute nothing towards them.Uninsured unlicensed , flouting rules of road,yet zealots dictate to everyone

Peter Yale ● 1164d

Answer the questions posed of you please.  Back up your fantasy with facts. Not holding my breath as it has been months since you were asked about your car use. All you do is avoid and obfuscate. Classic tactics of someone with nothing to back up their claims how tiresome.

N V Brooks ● 1164d

>If they were scared of cycling that route then what else are they scared of? I’d like to know how many accidents involving cyclists have happened on that route.They didn't feel safe cycling it, because of the traffic Simon, but they WANT to cycle there!With your idea that places with low "accident" stats are safe then that means it's safe to walk long a motorway or a train track?No, it's not safe to do that, they are the most dangerous places to be so people don't do that. Same for many roads in Ealing I suspect.Hay, nobody has been killed crossing this river full of crocodiles so it must be safe to cross!Simon, seriously.

Paul Richard James ● 1164d

What a silly answer Paul. It will remain a minority activity because it doesn’t suit most people’s day to day needs, setting aside those for whom cycling isn’t possible.If they were scared of cycling that route then what else are they scared of? I’d like to know how many accidents involving cyclists have happened on that route.The problem with taking a subjective approach to these things is that what’s a difficulty for one person is a doddle for another. It’s not a basis for a transport strategy.

Simon Hayes ● 1164d

>I am sure there was a safe way or what this this an implied request for dedicated expensive infrastructure to enable a minority method of transport to be undertaken?It will remain a minority method of transport with attitudes like that Nigel. But then that's what you want I guess!

Paul Richard James ● 1164d

I am sure there was a safe way or what this this an implied request for dedicated expensive infrastructure to enable a minority method of transport to be undertaken?Now, about answering those questions?

N V Brooks ● 1164d

>If, for whatever reason, they don't feel safe then where is the enjoyment?Implied in their description of wanting to cycle to the leisure centre but choosing to drive because they didn't feel safe cycling was a request for a safe way of cycling there Nigel.

Paul Richard James ● 1164d

If, for whatever reason, they don't feel safe then where is the enjoyment? At least they had a choice. Something increasingly denied by zealots.Meanwhile, any answers to the questions posed of you about your own car use and aslso about Ealing cycling casualties?

N V Brooks ● 1164d

But they wanted to ride there as they really enjoy riding their bikes Nigel.

Paul Richard James ● 1164d

So Paul, what are the official statistics for deaths and injuries to cyclists in Ealing? Nigel helped you a bit but you ought to be putting the work in yourself.And you know that cycling is a minority activity, don’t you? Why, lots of cyclists prefer to drive when the occasion arises. Indeed, you’ve been known to do that yourself.

Simon Hayes ● 1166d

Could have taken the bus if they didn't feel safe surely.

N V Brooks ● 1166d

Simon, I'm thinking about myself AND others. In fact I had a conversation with somebody there that said they've love to ride there but drove instead as they didn't feel safe on the bikes going that way.

Paul Richard James ● 1166d

It really isn't.

Paul Richard James ● 1166d

So it’s entirely for your convenience. What’s wrong with the bus? You probably don’t realise that buses are the must popular mode of transport in London.

Simon Hayes ● 1166d

But Paul, you never engage in a debate. You just preach and moralise and condemn. You need some serious help.Are you going to provide some stats? I doubt it. You never back up your assertions with any evidence. That constitutes losing an argument. Did you not have an education?

Simon Hayes ● 1166d

So, unsubstantiated fantasy then. About right.

N V Brooks ● 1166d

Nothing but abuse from you Simon."What are the common signs of a person that is losing an argument?""Attack their opponents personally.""Move the goalposts.""Engage in whataboutism."

Paul Richard James ● 1166d

I have an app, it's very good and very accurate. Obviously not submissible in law, yet.

Paul Richard James ● 1166d

Ealing Council want to increase that figure Simon, and so do I, and so do you really if you think about it and stopped being so silly.I tried to ride to the leisure centre with my kid the other day, not doing that again at that time, it was horrible, am sticking to the bus. Now if there was a nice, protected cycle lane to it...

Paul Richard James ● 1166d

I pressed submit too early. Three of these were in Ealing, Two in neighbouring Brent and one in Hillingdon on the A40 bordering Ealing. That's one tragic death every two years.

N V Brooks ● 1166d

The mlMayor's own Vision Zero office shows six cycling fatalities since 2016.

N V Brooks ● 1166d

Careful now. Snowflake might feel threatened. Couldn’t think of much worse than meeting Paul. All that dreadful had wringing and lecturing in person....But I’ll await his stats with eager anticipation. Doubtless he’s busy finding some obscure cycling forum where the ‘data’ he wants might exist. Probably collated by Rachel Aldred.

Simon Hayes ● 1166d

paul sadiq dicky boy james is an absolute ****er.Never answers a question.Mr Brooks categorically asked if he had a calibrated speed gun??Pc james is some 2bob cyclist demanding & dictating to everyone.I long to meet him somewhere, sometime in my diesel car & his bike

Peter Yale ● 1166d

Paul. You are in a minority that is benefiting from huge public expenditure. You have not produced any statistics to back up your claims. Come on, how many cycling injuries and deaths have there been in Ealing. TfL have those figures....

Simon Hayes ● 1166d

Apt to the paranoid maybe but not among normal people. Possibly joining the latter group may be beneficial to your mental health.

N V Brooks ● 1167d

Less than two percent of journeys is a clear minority, which part of that is too difficult for you to understand Paul?

N V Brooks ● 1167d

Did you have a calibrated speed gun? Or just another fantasy?

N V Brooks ● 1167d

>Such as the belief that you see illegal activities among drivers every day I recorded five out of six drivers at 30mph in a 20 the other day, and in one short walk around the block the other day had words with several drivers using their phones.I see drivers dong illegal things every day if I'm out.

Paul Richard James ● 1167d

>The fact is cycling is a minority activityThankfully Simon, Ealing council (and Hounslow, and Hammersmith etc...) has chosen to ignore people such as yourself saying such silly things about cycling and is working to change this.

Paul Richard James ● 1167d

"Murder strip" is used to refer to a narrow cycle lane, normally marked in a dooring zone, so people on bikes are damned if they do ride in the lane and risk getting doored, and damned if they don't ride in the lane and risk close punishment passed by people in cars who think they should be in the lane.It's an apt phrase.

Paul Richard James ● 1167d

There are far greater threats. Such as the belief that you see illegal activities among drivers every day and that you have developed a 'magnetic attraction' to 'slaloming' skip lorries. All this while remaining totally oblivious to the transgressions of the law by certain elements of the road using community. I would propose that this is a far greater health threat than posts on a little-use local forum.

N V Brooks ● 1167d

Careful Nigel, you’ll be accused of threatening him soon.Paul. What are the annual stats for injuries to cyclists in Ealing? Not your perception but the actual published figures. You could find out and even break it down into A roads and minor roads. The data is out there.The fact is cycling is a minority activity. Even the lobby groups like UK cycling know this. But refusing to use a cycle lane because it doesn’t meet your perceived ‘standard’ is simply stupid. Rather like refusing to wear a helmet when all the science indicates it will reduce the risk of serious head trauma.

Simon Hayes ● 1167d

Yes, if that is a dedicated cycle lane. Otherwise, they, like all road users, should exercise care.Using the term "murder strip" to refer to a shared use carriageway is emotive but what one should expect from those cyclists who both assume privilege and cannot exercise due care. There are idiots among all road user groups, they do however seem to be disproportionately higher among certain groups of cyclists.

N V Brooks ● 1167d

The big question.After all that, do you still think UK cyclists should be fined if they don't use a cycle lane that they've decided is unsafe or unsuitable for them to use, or at all in fact? Like the "murder strip" cycle lanes that runs alongside parked cars in the dooring zone for instance?Like starting tomorrow?

Paul Richard James ● 1167d

Equally, in many parts of Germany and The Netherlands, and I have cycled in both, the lanes are anything but continuous and they also have to contend with trams and light rail, I said this, again as it doesn't meet your blinkered narrative, you ignore it.  The difference is the cyclists in those countries do not ride like  privileged assholes expecting the road infrastructure to meet their needs and their needs only. I'll leave you now to imagine seeing things parked on every corner or on every little cycle ride that you make.  Ride safely, obey traffic laws, who knows it may catch on.

N V Brooks ● 1167d

Nigel. I started out this thread saying that many of London's cycle lanes simply do not come up to spec and until they do we shouldn't be entertaining discussion of forcing people on bikes stay in them if they don't feel safe in them.The A4 cycle lane is DANGEROUS at junctions, and many people choose to stay on the road, heck at Gillette corner it FORCES you out ONTO the road. Get the protected cycle lane continuous and safe across the junctions as they are in many parts of Germany, Netherlands etc.. in many many more places and we can start discussing mandatory use of them by cyclists.Here's my original post about this> surely the lycra mafia should be fined when NOT using an available cycle lane?If you want this to become a reality you need to join in campaigning for high quality cycle tracks like they have in many European capitals such as Amsterdam and Copenhagen where people on bikes are expected to use them, but then no person on a bike wouldn't want to because they are so good and get places people want to get to without fuss.Not the awful stuff we have here, for instance the A4 cycle track certainly ain't it, the Boston Manor Road track comes close but still has some issues and many other cycle tracks we have put people in frankly dangerous situations.Even the new one the council are putting in between Southall and Hanwell breaks at places where it crosses roads so it's actually safer to stay out of it there and ride on the road rather than risk being cut up by turning drivers.And you're certainly never going to force me to ride in a cycle lane that runs along a set of parked cars in the dooring zone which is quite common in London.

Paul Richard James ● 1167d

Your right Mr Brooks. pc sadiq james is blinkered, supercilious, ignorant, a liar, selective hearing, anti car hypocrite

Peter Yale ● 1167d

Still can't admit when you're wrong then? Watch out for those slaloming skip lorries that you see everyday.

N V Brooks ● 1167d

In the meantime, there are no such things as cycle lanes that cyclists MUST ride in in the UK, i.e. there are no roads that cyclists are not allowed to ride along despite there being a cycle lane/cycle track along or alongside it and I would suggest until they are of LTN1/20 standard that remains the case.

Paul Richard James ● 1167d

Nigel.You wrote:"Section 2 of the Straßenverkehrsordnung (qv) is clear that unless otherwise signed use of cycling infrastrucrure is mandated."This is not correct.What it actually says is:"An obligation to use cycle paths in the respective direction of travel only exists if this is indicated by signs 237, 240 or 241"We can argue the toss about how many cycle lanes in Germany have these signs if you like, but what you wrote is not correct, what you wrote DISAGREES with what's actually written in Section 2 of the Straßenverkehrsordnung as you can see.

Paul Richard James ● 1167d

To put it simply you are wrong, the reasons for which were clearly explained to you including illustrations of the signs. However as you have a pathological inability to admit when you're wrong but prefer to fantasise about things that you may or may not have seen there is little point in engaging with a fantasist. Suggest you go and peddle your twaddle on Twitter where your acolytes are open to receiving such bullshit without question. I guess this cues the normal fantasy patronising bollocks in response.

N V Brooks ● 1167d

To put it simply you are wrong, the reasons for which were clearly explain to you including illustrations of the signs. However as you have a pathological inability to admit when you're wrong but prefer to fantasise about things that you may or may not have seen there is little point in engaging with a fantasist. Suggest you go and peddle your twaddle on Twitter where your acolytes are open to receiving such bullshit without question. I guess this cues the normal fantasy patronising bullocks in response.

N V Brooks ● 1167d

>Of course you are more likely to be killed by a car there are more cars than other forms of transport.This isn't why you're (much much much) more likely to be killed by a driver Nigel and you know it.>Fancy correcting you're errors about cycling signage in Europe It was you that made the error there Nigel, not me.

Paul Richard James ● 1167d

Predictable anti-car post.Of course you are more likely to be killed by a car there are more cars than other forms of transport.Fancy correcting you're errors about cycling signage in Europe or answering any of the questions that oppose of you?Do keep up or shut up.

N V Brooks ● 1167d

>Only one mode of vehicle does NOT carry a numberplate and therefore CANNOT be identified. I am sure they are very happy with that, effective' 'carte blanche' to ignore the law.If you're going to get killed by somebody ignoring the law on Ealing's roads Nigel, it will be a driver that does it for you, not a cyclist.It's quite likely they will have illegal or cloned plates too!

Paul Richard James ● 1167d

Before the forum pedant strikes, I will pre-empt.Only one mode of vehicle does NOT carry a numberplate and therefore CANNOT be identified. I am sure they are very happy with that, effective' 'carte blanche' to ignore the law.

N V Brooks ● 1167d

TfLs statement issued state "All Road vehicles users of all vehicular modes' will be subject to enforcement.That's good to hear. But how?  Only one mode carry number plates and can be identified.

Raymond Havelock ● 1167d

& you ignored a question AGAIN sadiq james.As Mr Brooks says, do keep up DDAll you do is put nonsense anti car rhetoric to keep your pish in spotlight

Peter Yale ● 1168d

The same sign in The Netherlands also mandates the use of the cycle lane only where the is a 'fietspad' sign is the cycle lane 'optional.
Ties in nicely with the up to €200 fine for cycling on the footpath (set by individual municipalities) and the fixed fines of €150 for not giving pedestrians priority on a crossing or the €95 on the spot fine for running a red light

N V Brooks ● 1168d

And the MAJORITY of cycle infrastructure IS mandated by  signs 237, 240 or 241 normally by sign 237  (240 and 241 are 'shared path' indicators but again mandatory. Sign 240


Unlike the UK where it simply shows the presence of as cycle lane, in Germany it MANDATES ITS USE. I thought that you would know this from your extensive, abeit totally flawed, knowledge of European cycling infrastructure and the relevant legislation.


Do keep up!

N V Brooks ● 1168d

>Section 2 of the Straßenverkehrsordnung (qv) is clear that unless otherwise signed use of cycling infrastrucrure is mandated.Nigel, no it doesn't.It says:"An obligation to use cycle paths in the respective direction of travel only exists if this is indicated by signs 237, 240 or 241"Which is the opposite of what you've said.I'm not wrong about this, you are.

Paul Richard James ● 1168d

WRONG!Section 2 of the Straßenverkehrsordnung (qv) is clear that unless otherwise signed use of cycling infrastrucrure is mandated.Having worked in a  number of German cities yes there are some very good quality segregated cycle lanes but, from observation, the majority are little more than painted lines which cross multiple junctions and, in many city centres, tram and light rail tracks. In and around, as example Dresden and Leipzig however cycle path are routed in public parks or along riverbanks to isolate cyclists from the traffic you then rejoin 'mainstream' traffic on ordinary non-segregated roads.

N V Brooks ● 1168d

They can barely afford not to.Investment in things like cycle lanes pays back MASSIVELY, they are a huge money saver.I recall somebody saying that every pound invested returns six, with the opposite being true for roads.

Paul Richard James ● 1168d

Well, that’s not what he said, is it?But you won’t see cycle lanes like those abroad because the cost will prove prohibitive eventually. They can barely afford what they are putting in now.

Simon Hayes ● 1168d

>No, Nigel hit the nail on the head when he brought u the mandatory use of cycle lanes in Germany.Except that's not what happens in Germany.SOME cycle lanes are mandatory for cyclists, but there aren't many of them, they are signed, and those that are mandatory are of MUCH higher quality than what we have here.

Paul Richard James ● 1168d

Oi, pc sadiq jamesy. Up Springbridgd Rd tonight, I saw 3 cyclists on the pavement cycling towards pedestrians.What do we do about that????

Peter Yale ● 1169d

Beacause we have a much more developed economy and a lot of retired people can afford to run a car. It's called choice, something you would never be able to grasp I am afraid as you have an almost monotheistic adoration of the bicycle.

N V Brooks ● 1169d

No, Nigel hit the nail on the head when he brought u the mandatory use of cycle lanes in Germany. When the complaints from you are all about careless drivers putting cyclists in peril then surely using the segregated lanes provided - at s cost of £500,000 per kilometre - should be compulsory. But then you might have to stop and exercise some caution when turning off, which is what most other road users have to do. If you want cyclists to have equal rights then there’s a trade off in responsibility.And cycling isn’t that popular. It’s a leisure activity, not a regular mode of transport for most. We’ve discussed this before and there are myriad reasons why people don’t or won’t cycle. Not that I expect you paid attention before.

Simon Hayes ● 1169d

It's bizarre though. You say rip the cycle lane out because I don't use it when travelling south on it if I'm turning left?What a silly thing to say surely?

Paul Richard James ● 1169d

>You just don’t get that cycling really isn’t that popular hereWhy isn't it?> It never will be.I disagree!

Paul Richard James ● 1169d

Why don’t you go and live in that town then?You just don’t get that cycling really isn’t that popular here. It never will be.

Simon Hayes ● 1169d

I was in a town in Poland once, it was packed with 70+ year olds cycling around on bikes.Why isn't Ealing?

Paul Richard James ● 1169d

The issue everyone should be most concerned about is too many people. The 2021 census results were published yesterday, showing Ealing is the third most populous borough in London, it’s increase outstripping the London average over the past 10 years. That’s not going to stop given the continued mania for building big towers. This is putting increased stress on already stretched infrastructure.The census also showed that Ealing had an ageing population, whilst numbers of late twenty somethings had dropped hugely. That’s certainly part of the demographic the cycling infrastructure is supposed to cater for. The numbers of young children - another key cohort for the cycling lobbyists - has similarly dropped dramatically. Still, more space in the bike lanes.

Simon Hayes ● 1169d

I broke my own rule engaging with you, for this very reason, that you are so blinded by your own opinion, that is polarising on its own, I will stop now as what's the point, Paul is always right regardless of anything, well in his own mind and to him that's all that counts,

Declan Devine ● 1169d

Paul, you are probably the most polarised individual on this forum.Too many cars.Cars parked on pavements everywhere.Drivers not being careful around cyclists.Etc, etc, etc.Yet here you admit ‘it’s very rare there are any cars on that stretch anyway’. So clearly your too many cars bleat is exaggerated.You are like a spoiled child, always wanting more, never satisfied with what you have.

Simon Hayes ● 1169d

It's not a waste of money, why so polarised!?If I don't use it to head south it's very rare there are any cars on that stretch anyway, but I also DO use it to head south if I'm going all the way to the bottom of BMR.>and its quite funny a cyclist accusing others of being  polarised,Yet here you are, being polarising about cyclists! :D

Paul Richard James ● 1169d

Actually they do as there is an expectation that you ride and drive defensively. The cycle track alongside of YuriGagarinRing in Erfurt crosses multiple side streets and countless tram tracks. Trams do not give way to cars let alone cyclists. Ride in an 'entitled' manner there and, if you are really lucky you will only need to visit the hospital.

N V Brooks ● 1169d

Nothing  polarised at all, as you describe yourself you don't use it if you are going south, so then not designed right so yes, a waste of money, as to enforcing bike lane use, what's the point of spending the money on them if they are not used, You basically say this yourself, and its quite funny a cyclist accusing others of being  polarised,

Declan Devine ● 1169d

>which would include the new, expensively constructed, Uxbridge Road cycle lane were it in Germany.Any cycle track in Germany wouldn't expect people on bikes to look back over their shoulder to check they are not going to be cut up by a driver.The one at Dormers Wells Lane is not continuous over the junction, and it should be.

Paul Richard James ● 1169d

How can sadiq james accuse anyone of being polarised!!Wants cyclist way only, anti car rhetoric,,yet hypocritically drives herself.Keeps adding stupid comments to keep cycling mafia in spotlight, but NEVER answers a question

Peter Yale ● 1169d

The German regualtions, sensibly, do not define 'good' which is a subjective measure. They mandate the use of ANY dedicated cycling infrastructure.The keyword is dedicated which would not include a white line on the road but which would include the new, expensively constructed, Uxbridge Road cycle lane were it in Germany.

N V Brooks ● 1169d

>as most cyclist don't want to use the bike lane, Who said that? I see loads of people using it, I use it myself regularly, just not if I'm going south and want to turn left down Swyncombe as it means I've got to cross the road twice.>so an utter waste of moneyNonsense. Stop being so polarised!"as its then not fit for purpose"Nonsense. "I have no issue with creating an infrastructure for bikes but we need to do this correctly"Yes we do. Look up LTN1/20 which is the current guildlines, the BMR cycle track doesn't quite meet LTN1/20...yet... Let's not rip it out, just improve it (and extended it to the Viaduct junction to the north to meet the new Southall Hanwell track!)> and where a bike lane is present then cyclist need to be enforced to use it Like I said, you're never going to force me to use a bike lane that goes through the dooring zone of parked cars. You're being too polarised on this!

Paul Richard James ● 1169d

The BMR lane is great and is needed, and actually where it crosses side roads the bike track has priority.Unlike the lane from Southall to Hanwell (which is the one I was describing with "it's actually safer to stay out of it there and ride on the road rather than risk being cut up by turning drivers.")."use of any dedicated cycling infrastructure is both mandated and enforced."And I already described that too, you wouldn't NOT want to use good cycle tracks there as they go to places you need to get to with no fuss.

Paul Richard James ● 1169d

The Bavarian state law is quite unequivocal and their provision have been adopted by other states."Bicycles are legal traffic. They must be on the street with traffic and ride in the direction of traffic. If there is a bicycle path, you must use it and not ride on the street or road with traffic.""Riding side by side is forbidden on streets and roads"."Traffic Violation Fines: As of 1 April 2013, if cyclists violate provisions of the Road Traffic Act (Straßenverkehrsordnung "StVO"), it now is more expensive than previously. Fines may be as follows: failure to use a provided bike path - €20; riding without lights - €20; riding on the footpath - €10; not using the correct lane - €15; riding the wrong way on a one-way street - €20; riding in a pedestrian zone: €15."

N V Brooks ● 1169d

I wonder who said this, effectively meaning that the BMR lane is not needed?"it's actually safer to stay out of it there and ride on the road rather than risk being cut up by turning drivers."Step forward, Paul Richard James.In the Netherlands and in a number of German states (I only have experience of Lower Saxony, Thuringia and Bavaria) use of any dedicated cycling infrastructure is both mandated and enforced. In many cases it crosses side roads with clear signage. A few signs would doubtless be far more economical in these uncertain tiems than miles of empty dedicated paths.

N V Brooks ● 1169d

So we have reduced the width of the road, meaning emergency vehicles, get stuck behind the traffic for no reason as most cyclist don't want to use the bike lane, so an utter waste of money, as its then not fit for purpose, I have no issue with creating an infrastructure for bikes but we need to do this correctly and where a bike lane is present then cyclist need to be enforced to use it

Declan Devine ● 1169d

It is good, but for example if you want to turn left heading south it's a pain, I usually just stay on the main a carriageway if I'm doing that. It also dumps you onto main roads top AND bottom.Causal cyclists are what we need to encourage, you don't see many of them because there isn't the infrastructure, they need to feel safe.I'll happily ride round hyde park corner me, keeping up the the cars, but I don't expect others to do the same.Also, gov advice is that if you want to go faster than 15mph you SHOULD use the road as cycle tracks aren't set up for that sort of riding.

Paul Richard James ● 1169d

The Boston Manor Road cycle lane is excellent, but seems to be only used by casual cyclist, the Lycra glad still use the road, which is dangerous both for them and drivers, its not about cycle lanes its about attitude, they simple  want to do what the want

Declan Devine ● 1169d

Drivers accept that. What drivers dislike is the constant penalties inflicted upon them by TFL & Khan.Using them as a cash cow & high & mighty cyclists dictating, demanding anything & everything, contributing nothing

Peter Yale ● 1170d

I bet too, when there’s a gap in the so called “dooring” zone, you are 1 of the cretin knob cyclists who still won’t move over.Do yourself no favours & the more who do, turn me more against you.By the way, why did you drive to Richmond??? You hate cars

Peter Yale ● 1170d

That’s not going to happen. There’s no revenue stream TfL could expect from it.A simple answer would be to make people choose to be either a cyclist or a driver. Choose your mode and be stuck with it. That would sort the wheat from the chafff.

Simon Hayes ● 1170d

> surely the lycra mafia should be fined when NOT using an available cycle lane?If you want this to become a reality you need to join in campaigning for high quality cycle tracks like they have in many European capitals such as Amsterdam and Copenhagen where people on bikes are expected to use them, but then no person on a bike wouldn't want to because they are so good and get places people want to get to without fuss.Not the awful stuff we have here, for instance the A4 cycle track certainly ain't it, the Boston Manor Road track comes close but still has some issues and many other cycle tracks we have put people in frankly dangerous situations. Even the new one the council are putting in between Southall and Hanwell breaks at places where it crosses roads so it's actually safer to stay out of it there and ride on the road rather than risk being cut up by turning drivers.And you're certainly never going to force me to ride in a cycle lane that runs along a set of parked cars in the dooring zone which is quite common in London.

Paul Richard James ● 1170d

It looks like drivers will just have to blame themselves when they block the cycle lanes instead of everyone else.

Philippa Bond ● 1170d

It’s never been funny.What they should do is make it compulsory to wear a helmet. Contrary to what Paul and his chia claim it doesn’t make drivers more careless around cyclists. What it does do is reduce the chances of serious head trauma if you fall off your bike for any reason. All the medical research points to any head impact potentially contributing to early onset dementia. I don’t know any keen cyclist who hasn’t come off their bike at some point and banged their heads.

Simon Hayes ● 1170d

I don't get it.... surely the lycra mafia should be fined when NOT using an available cycle lane?It's becoming a very boring joke

Colin Goodman ● 1170d

No doubt there’s furious shouting going on with his Twitter chums.Paul certainly seems incapable of answering a straight question.

Simon Hayes ● 1171d

Gloat, more anti car rhetoric sadiq james.Swerve, ignore  etc erc

Peter Yale ● 1171d

Are there actually any cycle lanes on red routes locally? I can think of any. Where they do exist this is likely to come as a shock to motorists when the fines start to be issued. I would have no sympathy with anyone who was blocking a cycle lane or causing a hazard but, like bus lane fines, I suspect many will be minor breaches when a driver strays unwittingly into a lane for a short time. What will get interesting is if Ealing Council adopts this power — although with many cycle lanes now segregated with wands on main roads, the potential for increased revenues is reduced.

Gordon Southwell ● 1171d

Then why are you complaining again? Surely you should be pleased that enforcement is passing from police to cameras.The article simply serves to inform readers of the changes. This hasn’t been widely reported until last week, so lots of people won’t be aware of it. But then maybe that’s the point.What’s not enforced is stopping people cycling on the pavement. Now what’s your view in that Paul?

Simon Hayes ● 1171d

Er, it's the government that have passed this responsibility from police to tfl and councils..

Paul Richard James ● 1171d

Kerching! It's just another revenue raiser for the little donut who calls himself the mayor.I saw in the ''Sub'' Standard last week that he is not going to attempt to reform the terms and conditions of any transport worker in London, so a continuing stand off with him bleating ''the big boys are bullying me'' in the media is what we have to look forward to.

Peter King ● 1171d

The dilemma I have with this is that one's natural reaction, when an emergency service vehiclw approaches from the rear, is to pull over to give them room to pass. When the cycle lane or bus lane is a 'full width' lane then you stay were you are and let the emergency service vehicle use the cycle lane or bus lane. In circumstances where it is less than a full width lane is one now meant to delay the emergency service vehicle for fear of risking a hefty fine? I understand that entering the lane to permit such vehicles to pass is not a 'prescribed reason' to avoid a fine although video evidence to prove the reason to enter the lane would be available from the enforcement cameras.

N V Brooks ● 1171d

I am struggling to understand your puzzlement. It seems clear enough to me. The concern would be that this measure has been introduced not to ensure cycle lanes remain unobstructed but enforcement is done in a way designed to maximise revenue i.e. cameras are positioned at points where motorists might stray into cycle lanes out of confusion but cause no obstruction rather than at points were there is habitual flouting of the law i.e. business loading in front of their premises. There is a real danger that TfL becomes over dependent on fine revenue and sees maximisation of income as the primary purpose of these restrictions.

Gordon Southwell ● 1171d

And your point is?Perhaps you’d like to add journalism to your extensive portfolio of roles?

Simon Hayes ● 1171d