Forum Topic

Warren Farm - time for compromise?

I'm full of admiration for what campaigners have achieved so far with Warren Farm. The protection of our available green space is very important. However, is it not the case that a demand for a total return to nature would be a step too far. I'm old enough to have participated in sport at Warren Farm and it was criminal that the facilities were allowed to degrade in the way they have. Sports facilities play an equally important role in our well being to nature reserves and restored pitches and changing rooms would probably benefit more people directly particularly in younger age groups. Anyone involved in community team sports knows how challenging it can be to get appropriate facilities and the cost of participation is driven up by a shortage.

Gordon Southwell ● 1253d37 Comments

Ealing is so committed to providing affordable sports facilities they are bound to be reopening Gurnell any day now.Oh, hang on, they won’t as it’s a key development site for its Broadway Living venture.

Simon Hayes ● 1229d

It should be a site for amateur and affordable sport.We have seen bowls decimated ( helped by local council officials and not helped at all by elected councillors)Hockey, Cricket, soccer, hurling, rugby,a velodrome and a host of other amateur level sports for fun and basic entry level ought to be there.With minimal permanent structures and eco friendly parking rather than concrete everywhere.It's dereliction is a crime in itself. When so much is needed.Problem is rubbish management, party politics and the Wheeler Dealering of Council executives has gone unchecked for far too long.Preferential back door land deals ( one in Hanwell ) which end up ripping off the council taxpayers and councils themselves by insiders has also gone past the blind eye.Anything LBE comes up with will be far too costly, unaffordable, and too costly and restrictive to make a viable and low cost facility for all.And beware of the " Community Club" thing.  Brentford FC has a Community stadium gained from the premise of a full set of facilities for the community.But removed following a reduction in capacity in a planning amendment once building commenced.The Community element is deleted.  Much as though I love my team. The 'Brentford Community Stadium' is a bit of a con.Barnet FC comes closer with a far more accessible facility. and if Southall FC do get hold it should be a fully accessible facility on the Barnet model only moreso.

Raymond Havelock ● 1229d

Will the Sultan of Brunei and his family living in Aviary Farm across the road from Warren Farm..be happy to have a monster stadium and Grandstand so nearby his residence and Grounds?I recall when some 40 years ago the Sultan's helicopters landed in the field next to WF. Windmill Road was to be widened to facilitate easier access to Tescos down the road.To see many teams playing cricket at WF was a sight to behold. Save WF for the amateur sportspersons I say!

Jim Lawes ● 1230d

Why would I stop that when there are clearly too many cars Simon?

Paul Richard James ● 1233d

Which is why all these " Party" politicians who use their party affiliations to further their own ends and those of their kin should not be allowed to hold office and reveals just how short the declarations of interests are for both council executives and elected members.If they want to stand for that end then do the same as happened in Brentford a decade back.A local resident stood as a Brentford FC candidate to force LBH to pave the way for what is now the new stadium. Won and got the ball rolling.But at least you knew exactly who and what you were voting for.

Raymond Havelock ● 1234d

Our Labour overlords have made up their minds.Join the dots. Virendra Sharma - Ealing Southall Labour MPSanjeev Sharma - Owner of Southall FCSpread the word.They make a big noise about their good intentions - 'Sport provision for all ... Genuinely affordable housing ... housing crisis.'Meanwhile our green spaces get concreted over. Rents get higher. Developers and landlords get richer.

Alan Anderson ● 1234d

Brentford have a location in Osterley and are currently in the process of a Planning application to develop the facility.What there is not are open spaces for public active use.For some reason everything that gets proposed is overblown and lavish ( except it seldom ever gets delivered that way.) just lavish in cost.Open space like Warren Farm is land already set aside for that purpose. it was levelled and drainage and sub soiled for outdoor sports use decades ago.Facilities are low level and basic. Too basic in all honesty and were never good enough from day one.  Nor should they be overblown or too large or imposing.  The Gunnersbury Park facility is an example of that.  And the consequence of that is it is now also too expensive for too many.Worse still there are 3 sports grounds on the perimeter of the Park. 2 of which remain with outdated and rudimentary facilities of long outdated standards.The Warren Farm area serves a part of the Borough that does have a good bit of open space but very little of it accessible to local people.  There are plenty of Nature trails and wilded areas, but when there are dozens of others impacting the ground and constantly disturbing, calling it 'Wilding' is a bit of a naive description. Disney Wilding maybe.Making  sports venues difficult for vehicle parking is also a folly. Away game visitors come from all over, kit has to be carried and most car share anyway and have done for generations.I don't think any commercial club should have the location for a closed facility.Even a shared facility will restrict public access and overload it on other days.So it should be fully public, basic and low cost, accessible to all, with areas and planting to make it as environmentally sustaining as possible. Possibly with solar power and wind power discreetly located or on the facilities to make it a self sufficient as possible.It should be ring fenced for all those future generations and certainly for the huge swell in population that is about to impact with so little in place other than the sales pitches of Crossrail and developers liaisons with council executives and elected members.

Raymond Havelock ● 1239d

As a lifelong R, I know that. We are still looking to move from the KPFS as were Chelsea from Stamford Bridge. There is a shortage of land in west London, even in Middlesex as Brentford found as they managed to squeeze in behind Kew Bridge stadium. The new training ground in Hounslow is instead of Warren Farm, we were never going to build an actual ground miles away from any station as we all want to stay in central London. A training ground can be out of town as is Brentford's too I believe.

Peter King ● 1240d

QPR haven't 'come up trumps' with their ground. They have been trying to move from the Kiyan Prince Foundation Stadium for some time and have failed. Their earlier Warren Farm proposal wasn't for a stadium but for a training ground. I agree that part of the site should be returned to pitches for community use. That could be part funded by Southall FC in return for them having a home there.

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 1240d

QPR tried to overcome the local (Brentford FC) opposition to them moving there and have now come up trumps with a ground that they own. Can't see anything built there sadly

Peter King ● 1248d

Not just Football but Junior and school rugby, hockey and most grass /soft ground sports - all of which were available at Warren Farm for decades. Until it got meddled with complacent management followed by successive councils and posture policies leading to terminal neglect.Even a decade ago with appealing conditions, it was used to capacity.

Raymond Havelock ● 1248d

Simply there is not enough football pitches in Ealing, or in the west side of London, kids clubs find it difficult to get pitches, if Southall FC were to move there it would be a benefit to them to open it up for public use, go back to 2012 and there would be at least 20 teams playing on WR over a weekend, this has been lost, and I hope not lost for ever

Declan Devine ● 1248d

But would the facilities be open to the public if it is developed into a ground for Southall F.C.?We seem to have a number of football pitches in the borough so what form of recreation exactly are you thinking of? I'm not trying to be snarky, I honestly wish to know.Regarding Perivale Wood, this is privately owned by the Selborne Society, it is not Council land. Horsenden Hill across the canal from it, is owned by Ealing and open 24 hours at no charge for entry. Why wouldn't Warren Farm be the same?

Terry Freestone ● 1249d

And lets not forget that two local nature reserves - Perivale wood and Gunnersbury Triangle have restricted times to visit, plus charge for school groups etc, is this what they want for WF? there is room for sport and a smaller nature reserve,

Declan Devine ● 1249d

Cannot agree.  With a huge surge in population in this area  usable recreation space is needed most.A wildlife reserve is not a wildlife reserve if dozens of people frequent it. Let alone thousands. Most that exist in urban areas have access restrictions and limits. Otherwise it's simply not a reserve at all.There is already large tracts of local land inaccessible to the public in the vicinity.What exactly can people do in a Nature reserve?  Walk dogs?  Play football, ride bikes? Actually it's go for a walk. And that in itself is something not every one can do in a wild and unkempt , or natural state.It's a rose tinted version that does not dovetail with the realities of need for so many people .

Raymond Havelock ● 1249d

Southall FC chairman is Labour MP’s son. They want to build a stadium.https://www.cprelondon.org.uk/news/football/Really important for Ealing residents and supporters of Warren Farm Nature Reserve to respond to the council consultation so that Warren Farm is preserved and developed as a natural space full of wildlife - a haven for the community.https://www.givemyview.com/warrenfarmWarren Farm has turned into a nature reserve with incredible biodiversity including rare and threatened species.

Alan Anderson ● 1249d

Not user by ‘too many cars’ then? Then you must stop banging on about that all the time.

Simon Hayes ● 1250d

Oh, I'm absolutely fine, better than fine in fact!

Paul Richard James ● 1250d

I can't see it. Can you give the date of the tweet please and who said it?The Warren Farm Nature Reserve website says they wish to include the horse pastures on Windmill Road and the Earl of Jersey's Field in the Local Nature Reserve designation. Both of these are north of the M4. The Wyke Green golf course is south of the M4.

Terry Freestone ● 1250d

Poor Paul.

Simon Hayes ● 1250d

Yet you are continually nasty to me. :D

Paul Richard James ● 1250d

You seem to have a lot of problems with comprehension.

Simon Hayes ● 1250d

Mine can't comprehend how nasty you are!

Paul Richard James ● 1251d

My heart bleeds for you Paul.

Simon Hayes ● 1251d

There's already a cycle track up in Southall.Not much us for getting to the shops or leisure centre though!

Paul Richard James ● 1251d

check WarrenFarmNatureReserve twitter feed and you will see it

Declan Devine ● 1251d

Surely they should build a velodrome there so all the tens of thousands of cyclists can pedal round and round to their hearts content without nasty motor vehicles to worry about.

Simon Hayes ● 1251d

He means mowed to a playable surface.But they stopped mowing , scarifying rolling and levelling.Those playing fields were very good. Quite level and well drained. Unlike the Gunnersbury Park ones which had a gradient that even a rugby ball would roll on it's own. The fact is there is a lot of open space in the vicinity that is not open to the public. A lot of that open space being inaccessible to man and domestic predators means that genuine wildlife exists undisturbed.The RSPB were appalled at the removal of Gunnersbury Parks golf courses. For decades they were home to a varied range of uncommon species from Slow Worms to Woodpeckers and Swifts and some quite rare birds. As well as not so common rodents, toads and frogs.  Largely because the area was banned to dogs and golf etiquette rules minimised litter and food waste. So while the greens and fairways were manicured, the rough was a safe haven for wildlife, along with the varied and again undisturbed tree varieties.All that got trashed with events and heavy vehicles and plant for events which compacted the ground and ruined the balance along with overflowing portable conveniences contaminating the ground in places.Trying to simply let it go wild has had no effect as it is now the domain of large numbers of Dog walkers and dogs forage. Whilst wildlife is great, it's only great if it's completely undisturbed. This Disney approach to wildlife is not going to work.With a huge hike in densification, need and demand for safe open recreational spaces will increase.  A huge increase in younger people who are going to be far less mobile than previous generations means activity locations will have to be in the locality...and affordable.Best option is to revert the site to its long term use as a sport facility of basics.21 century changing facilities and maintenance facilities but not a massive structural complex. The focus on outdoor sport and activity. And around the perimeters , proper planting of trees  In particular Poplars as windbreaks near the playing areas and hedgerows and planting where humans cannot intrude on wildlife.  There is certainly space for a bit. But the facility is ready made, has everything but badly neglected infrastructure that needs replacing.

Raymond Havelock ● 1251d

Very few nature reserves in the UK are closed to the public. Those that are closed are usually in inaccessible places. Isleworth AIT is one such example. Government guidelines say that nature reserves should be open to the public unless there is a good reason for them not to be. We have Local Nature Reserves in West London. Fox Wood, near Hanger Hill, and Grove Farm in North Greenford, for example. Both are well used for recreation by the public. It is the same LNR designation these sites have that the Brent River and Canal Society is advocating for Warren Farm. As far as I know, neither site has had a particular problem with poisonous plants.

Steven Toft ● 1251d

Who are the Warren Farm campaigners who have said they want to turn a golf course into a nature reserve? Where did they say this?

Steven Toft ● 1251d

> in 2013 they stopped mowing the fields, The fields still get mowed.

Paul Richard James ● 1251d

Warren Farm had been sports pitches for a very long time, it was totally neglected by Ealing Council for years, in 2013 they stopped mowing the fields, that is why its now overgrown, or as some now call it a nature reserve, London has 787 football pitches that are either free or to rent with 54 lost in the last 8 years, the same goes for Cricket and Rugby, local teams find it hard to find a place to play, Warren Farm were probably the best pitches in Ealing, there is room at Warren Farm for both, Also be aware the people behind the WF nature reserve want golf course also turned into nature reverse as well, this is not just about Warren farm, they want to stop all sports,

Declan Devine ● 1251d

Just like the town hall, the PRE are looking to offload something they should be preserving for us, the council tax payers. If QPR's plans were not acceptable to local greens then Southall FCs aren't as well. We need amateur sports facilities in Ealing and we need a nature reserve, the site is big enough for both

Peter King ● 1252d

Quite a few of the common plants in your garden are toxic, particularly to animals. Yew, Oleander, Rhododendron, to name but three, can be fatal to dogs if eaten. Others can be irritants to animals and humans.But that’s by the by. Ealing Council wants to get a tenant on this land to save it the bother (and expense) of maintaining the site. They won’t make any money for residents from any deal since they’ve failed to do that with any scheme thus far.

Simon Hayes ● 1252d

The consultation Ealing Labour have online contains the leading question ‘What type of sport facility would you like to see?’ I don’t remember asking for a sport facility. I like nature. There seem to be sport fields everywhere.Ealing Labour say Warren Farm is safe with them. They’ve learnt their lesson from when they wanted to give it to Premiership billionaires. Ah but now another football team are after it. And Labour’s defatigable Viendra Sharma is backing the bid.Brace yourselves for the big community sport provision propaganda.By the way, writing off plants as dangerous therefore they shouldn’t be in cities is an interesting mindset.

Alan Anderson ● 1252d

What seems to have slipped under the radar a bit is a bid from Southall FC to have their ground there. It has some powerful supporters but would offer little of the benefits of a community sports facility.

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 1252d

Agree entirely.True nature reserves mean No People.. And you have to take into account that Wildlife in urban areas adapt to the easiest options.  Scavenging and foraging but in an urban way.This site will remain an 'island' bounded by urban sprawl. It will simply end up like the unused land behind Wheatlands in Heston. Left largely alone but not just by humans.Also have to bear in mind that lovely that it a may seem, Parks came about because of the many irritants and dangers of wild land or heathland to domestic animals, horses and people. Plants that are poisonous, irritants and deadly are as dangerous as playing on live railway tracks.If you grow up in rural areas you know this instinctively.  If you grow up in a city you tend not to but are instinctive in other things.It ought to be a low cost  easy access sport facility like it used to be. It need not be elaborate but adequate and for all. Some of out can be set aside for Fauna and Flora and wildlife but this is a bit of a simplistic ideal which won't really work unless it is 100% People excluded.. And if you look at the surroundings much of the open space is already that. Exclusive to just a few.

Raymond Havelock ● 1252d