Forum Topic

Council cabinet votes to remove LTNs

Good news. Ealing Council cabinet has just voted to remove seven of the LTNs.

Simon Hayes ● 946d67 Comments

"A victory for common sense as to be effective such schemes need overwhelming support not a 75% rejection rate."Unfortunately, Ealing Borough is Communist, so fully expect similar Anti-Resident antics to continue unabated.  😉

Rosco White ● 933d

The cameras will be switched off at midnight tonight and the planters and other street clutter will be removed over the next few days avoiding school drop off and pickup times. All PCNs issued before midnight tonight will be enforced.A victory for common sense as to be effective such schemes need overwhelming support not a 75% rejection rate.

N V Brooks ● 933d

Well it is or everyone would be staticDDDOh by the way you ignored actual factual proof about saving time & reducing pollution, by motorists (me) driving down a different road, rather than fit in a busy one.That IS how it worked/works DDDDDDDDD

Peter Yale ● 941d

>getting from A to BYou've redefined getting from A to B as an essential car journey? :D

Paul James ● 941d

This is not correct Nigel. See above...

Paul James ● 941d

>As it was never built I don't see your pointIt was mostly built though, westway, A4 hammersmith flyover, north (and south) circular, large gyratories inside London (e.g. aldwych and traf square), London wall etc...It got halted  and we're left with what's left.Of course the switch to cars on the radial routes made many of the public transport radial routes unviable. so they vanished.Come on Nigel, keep up! :D

Paul James ● 941d

North London line - Richmond to Stratford.East London line - Highbury & Islington Gospel Oak to Barking.All operational, part of the Overground system and run by TFL.There is a feasibility study being carried  out regarding Brentford to Brent similar to Southall to Brentford ( Transport avenue ?) Proposed link up to Crossrail.Not sure how this would fit in with people crossing the track at the bottom of Green Lane to access the " Warren Farm wild life park " All this needs funding of course.

David Burke ● 943d

North London Railway (now fragmented and neglected).The East London Line (ditto)Gospel oak -BarkingThe radial route through Brent Cross to BrentfordThe Brentford -Southall shuttleThey are almost too numerous to mention but not one has been replaced by roadway as Paul James implies. The rail routes are there, they need linking up.

N V Brooks ● 943d

Which radial routes ?

David Burke ● 943d

I drive professionally, people drive for a purpose - transportation of goods, getting from A to B, so you are in no position to say it’s not true.It’s what I do 6 days a week.Here’s another for you. Because of queues at garages, traffic was bad.So I used an alternative route, different roads.That’s how it DOES work.LTN free roads that you love so much but sensible majority saw there stupidity & voted to remove, alleviated congestion & pollution.As Mr Hayes says, you are anti car, maybe own one & drive at times.Is that because you need to or are you driving for fun in cuckoo land maybe DDD

Peter Yale ● 943d

Which is precisely why the public transport radial routes need to be reinstated.

N V Brooks ● 943d

Correction 1973.GLC Ruling Group.

David Burke ● 943d

The point is that, save for the West Cross Route, it was never built.

N V Brooks ● 943d

My point being that there was a realisation that this scheme would not solve the traffic problem  certainly not in Inner London - you build more roads they just fill up with traffic - also the impact on local peoples lives - the destruction of half of Latimer Road . The plan was dropped by the Labour Party in 1983

David Burke ● 943d

As it was never built I don't see your point. I could post about the disruption caused by the A4 monorail to equal effect.

N V Brooks ● 943d

So, where are these radial routes that were replaced with roads. Another figment of your imagination?

N V Brooks ● 943d

>Build a town around car use?In the USA they really do have towns built around car use. Literally I went out for a walk in one once and you couldn't actually go for a walk as the pavements just stopped, they were just for getting to and from the car park. Without a car in those towns you really would be screwed, even the cash machines are drive through only and there were no public transport options.Retro fitting that to our towns in the UK which they actually tried to do has left us where we are today.

Paul James ● 943d

It was all centred around Trafalgar square.https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1973/mar/20/london-motorway-box

Paul James ● 943d

>Please don't make yourself look at total buffoon. The radial routes were largely rail, the railway tracks and cuttings are still there and they have not been replaced by roads.You don't have to put a road along an old railway track to replace train tracks and trains with roads and cars Nigel!

Paul James ● 943d

>Equally people need one, no one drives for fun.This is simply not true. Why do you write this stuff!?Put it in the same box labelled "utter rubbish" for "all car journeys are essential".

Paul James ● 943d

Paul James was right,the  plan was to build the so called " motorway box " around central London.I don't know about Trafalgar Square ,the western section ran up from IIRC Chelsea Creek to Olympia above the railway line to the old Shepherds Bush main line stationThe possibility of this blighted the Holland Road area for years.  One section that was built was the West Cross route from the Shepherds Bush roundabout to the Westway, demolishing part of Latimer Road.This was in the days when it was thought imdividual car ownership should take precedence over public transport. 

David Burke ● 943d

I never understood the push for diesels as the exhaust made me wheeze.  However I thought people chose them because diesel was the cheaper fuel...

Philippa Bond ● 943d

Correct Mr B, there’s no give.Roads must be given over to bikes & public transport in their safe, cosy time of no essence lives.

Peter Yale ● 943d

I have to be in Pitshanger Lane for 6am, no ifs or buts or WFHAlarm 04:40, sort myself, 15/20 min drive max.Any route I choose to avoid roadworks etc.Warm, dry.Bus to Acton Town (or 15min walk) possible rain & cold.207 or E3, then another bus or 20 min walk. Hour journey minimum?Cycle maybe, which I do sometimes & that cretin khan is forcing on lots of people. At best cold & dark. Worse case cold, dark & wet.I’m quite active so it’s unpleasant, but for others.So that’s why a car is needed

Peter Yale ● 943d

Easy to counter by why bother. No benefit to me or anyone in trying to open a closed mind.

N V Brooks ● 943d

https://www.ies-synergy.com/en/electric-buses-where-are-we/https://www.wired.co.uk/article/shenzhen-electric-buses-public-transportIt's a chicken and egg situation.

Philippa Bond ● 943d

Equally people need one, no one drives for fun.Transport is terrible, getting from A to B takes an age.If you have an itinerary, work for example it is easier by car.Carrying goods, shopping.You are right, find alternatives to cars, but why?If it’s diesel pollution & we all go electric, what’s the fuss. Problem solved I can counter most of your points as to alternatives & the reason a car works & useful to me.I imagine lots of other people can too

Peter Yale ● 943d

Lots of people don't need to drive and don't need to drive as often as they do.If you have a car it is easy to become lazy or even feel that because you have one you ought to use it.  You may even wonder how you managed before you got one - you probably planned your trips better!  Get rid of one and you no longer have to worry if it is still outside every morning and don't have to pay all those bills for it.  And you don't have to worry whether there is any fuel for it either!I know where I grew up everyone used to walk to the local shop and nowadays they drive and they each seem to have a car whereas they used to just have one per family.

Philippa Bond ● 943d

Please don't make yourself look at total buffoon. The radial routes were largely rail, the railway tracks and cuttings are still there and they have not been replaced by roads.They linked the stations on the periphery of the multiple lines that travel into London. Equally radial road routes are needed to provide radial bus routes or do you envisage flying buses?  The existing inner ring road is wholly inadequate.As for a motorway around Trafalgar Square,seriously? I take it you haven't driven in Central London for quite some time as Trafalgar Square was a constant traffic nightmare and remains so for all of the 40 years I have driven around it, made only marginally better by Congestion Charging

N V Brooks ● 944d

Strangely enough, not everything is convenient for where people might live. Be that work, school, sport, whatever.But Paul is just seething about his personal bike lanes being dismantled in a couple of weeks. He wants everyone to be like him.

Simon Hayes ● 944d

Build a town around car use?What with roads? So why can’t people use public transport, scooters, bikes.That’s what roads are for, all vehicles , well maybe not cars DD

Peter Yale ● 944d

Towns need infrastructure - roads for all vehicles.Cars are an evil necessity, so electric apparently solves all.No one drives for fun, drivers are hit every which way.LTNs turned drivers against the councils.There’s plenty of space for everyone rather than excluding groups , i.e motorists

Peter Yale ● 944d

All the shouting & hollering about  diesel cars we were directed to buy, are apparently causing pollution .In a move to ban diesel & buy electric, pollution issue solved.So why are goalposts moved & cars not wanted at all then

Peter Yale ● 944d

So you agree with the council allowing all the big towers going up in the borough? Despite the carbon footprint.

Simon Hayes ● 944d

Rosco White ● 944d

Ah, OK, thank you.Now I know that you are not only an Apologist for the dire Labour controlled LBE, but also Communist China as well.Outstanding!  😂

Rosco White ● 944d

>I just don't give you the answer I want to give you!That should have read of course"I just don't give you the answer you want me to give you!"

Paul James ● 944d

I did answer the question about building more homes for people. I always answer your questions I just don't give you the answer I want to give you!>but Paul, you always claim you aren’t ‘anti-car’, yet your posts clearly indicate that you are. Vehemently.I'm not anti car, used in the right circumstances they are amazing things, but using them should be a last resort. I've said this again and again and again.

Paul James ● 944d

But Paul, you always claim you aren’t ‘anti-car’, yet your posts clearly indicate that you are. Vehemently.And you never answered the question about tower blocks. Do you think more should be built?

Simon Hayes ● 944d

>So we all (if lucky enough to afford one) change to electric, problem solved.What problems are solved by electric cars?Genuine question!

Paul James ● 944d

> the lack of radial public transport routes (which used to exist)Yeah, they replaced them with roads for cars Nigel! :DThey very nearly managed to get an entire motorway system into london, with a small motorway around traf square at its centre and ring roads stepping out and out.We're still dealing with some horrible vestiges of this today, from when they thought cars were the answer to everything and everybody was going to get round in a car... :D

Paul James ● 944d

On;y in very small part.Irrespective of the number of cars, the lack of radial public transport routes (which used to exist) and some of the most expensive public transport in Europe does nothing to either coax people out of their cars or increase the adequacy of public provision.

N V Brooks ● 944d

"The local infrastructure is inadequate"This is in part because of cars of course.. ;) If you build a town around car use, only people with cars can use it...

Paul James ● 944d

Unfortunately that;'s what LTNs did. Cut communities into two.The local infrastructure is inadequate and what there is is often not a 5 min walk away. 5mins for a fit health young agile person can be 30 mins for those elderly and mobility challenged ( and that does not mean officially disabled)Similarly many facilities for elderly and disabled are located in Acton.In a few weeks time, another division will be placed right through the community with the ULEZ.Most of the very small percentage of local non compliant vehicles are used by older people. People who ferry loved ones friends and patients to places like Day centres and clinics.Most are of very modest means. Theres no point buying a compliant vehicle at a premium cost when you may only be driving for a few more years.But the carbon footprint for instilling thousands of cameras, tonnes of concrete and steel for cable ducting, poles, and signage, energy for theses thousands of cameras and the monitoring infrastructure plus the air conditioning and cooling systems, and heating and lighting for the operational centres far exceeds the net saving on 6 year old figures for emissions from vehicles which has reduced dramatically in that time.It will take 11 years to simply offset that installation footprint, and with the operational costs and energy required ( all justified by Carbon Offset - which is wordspeak for dumping the problem elsewhere) possibly never as the percentage of non compliant vehicles will be completely insignificant within 2 ( normal) years.Going all electric is a pure folly. Nowhere near enough can ever be generated using 'non - combustable means.  Not for a population of 60 million and increasing in a small space.  Not for 60 million in a large space either.Batteries using current technology result in huge toxic pollutants.  The demand caused by the stamped for all things electric from Buses to phones has created huge and devastating pollution in China and Indonesia to name just two.I've been to these places working several times and if anyone thinks it's bad here then maybe they should go there.It's far worse than it has ever been here, even when pollution was really bad here 50 plus years ago.

Raymond Havelock ● 944d

China's buses are powered by electrity from coal fired power stations. In effect, the electric buses/vehicles are coal powered. Approximately, 25% of the energy released from burning coal becomes electrical energy. China's electricity grids are mainly coal powered, therefore quite polluting. Potentially, the electric vehicle that has been charged from a coal powered electricity grid is more polluting, and is less efficient than modern petrol/diesel powered vehicles.

Anthony Hawran ● 944d

Maybe Germany is a better target than China. Despite apparently having ‘green’ credentials it’s actually one of the worst polluters, largely due to its manufacturing industries. They burn anthracite to power the factories, and that’s much nastier than coal.But really, why does everyone need to lecture about all this? It’s so boring. It’s all over the news. Everyone is aware. Anyway, it looks like gas and petrol won’t be available to the plebs much longer anyway.

Simon Hayes ● 944d

Yes, Uxbridge Road just wasn't wide enough for cars and trams.  It would have cut Ealing in two.

Philippa Bond ● 944d

Hanging around and not acting using the excuse that you think that other countries aren't acting or acting as fast is a mistake. China has reduced a lot of pollution by changing just about all of its buses to electric.  They suddenly stopped taking our plastics to reduce their pollution.  They can and do move faster than us and they have further to catch up but they don't have to make all our mistakes we have on the way.

Philippa Bond ● 944d

Philippa Bond seems to be a useful idiot for the Chinese Communist Party.

Anthony Hawran ● 944d

"You are so wrong about China. "Bit thick me, please explain?

Rosco White ● 945d

I don’t mean in transit, rather outside properties & owned by people.Again I ask if it’s an issue diesels polluting, everyone goes electric .Where’s the problem?

Peter Yale ● 945d

Livingstone's Tram was a non starter on that route. A single mechanical failure at the, IIRC. eleven pinch points from Uxbridge to Shepherd's Bush would have caused gridlock over a vast swathe of West London.What is needed is the restoration of the radial links that once existed on the underground and railways. It is nonsensical to be forced into central London and then out again to travel from say Hounslow to Ruislip (without bussing it).  Sadly Khan has no vision save for removing cars and penalising motorists. Any half-decent Mayor would be holding the, not fit for purpose, TfL to account but the relationship is too cosy, I guess that any organisation that has Julian Bell as a board member is never going to work is it?

N V Brooks ● 945d

And Grant Shapps is still Transport Minister and Michael Gove is Minister for Levelling Up  :)

Philippa Bond ● 945d

"but walk along any street & see how many there are"  Yes, but parked.The more modern cars have automatic engine stop/start.  I expect there will be more fines now for being stopped while your engine is running.

Philippa Bond ● 945d

Cars are an essential part of a lot of people’s lives.An evil necessity perhaps, but walk along any street & see how many there are.LTNS were/are a farce & drivers hated them. They cause congestion & consequently more pollution.The government, councils should be after drivers as allies.All the rhetoric is anti car.So we all (if lucky enough to afford one) change to electric, problem solved.But oh no, now it’s no cars at all

Peter Yale ● 945d

You are so wrong about China.  What about us - you should be asking?  There was discussion of an emissions tax recently so maybe EPCs will be extended to all properties as well as cars.

Philippa Bond ● 945d

Ealing is a miniscule drop in the ocean.If China et al do nothing we're just urinating into the wind, and a VERY expensive wind it is/will be for us too.Not to mention just one Super Volcano major blowout negates our measly efforts and pushes us back a decade or so?I am not advocating doing nothing, but please use common sense on what effect little LBE can exert in The Grand Scheme Of Things folks.I also completely agree with the comments about over-densification and its contribution to pollution.

Rosco White ● 945d

Oh and Govt told the Councils that there wasn't to be consultation beforehand because there are a lot of people who are unable to contemplate let alone cope with change.  However we do have to make changes! So what next?

Philippa Bond ● 945d

You've read the London Plan then that Robert Jenrick eventually signed off once there was enough development in it?  We should work out what new clean public transport is needed so that we don't have to have our streets clogged by so many private cars.  Maybe we should have gone for that tram.

Philippa Bond ● 945d

Stop over densification of developments which places undue strain on both private and public transport infrastructure, increases traffic movements, increases congestion, increases pollution and carbon emissions.

N V Brooks ● 945d

So what are we all going to do to try to prevent climate change? The world is currently predicted to get hotter by 2.7 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. The UN says we need to reduce our CO2 levels by 45%. Ealing Council brought in LTNs without consultation and they were unpopular. Most of them have now been scrapped.So what do we do now? What measures can Ealing Council bring in that will reduce traffic, reduce CO2 and at least do a tiny bit towards reducing climate change?

Caroline Evans ● 945d

https://news.sky.com/story/cop26-boris-johnson-urges-humankind-to-grow-up-and-come-of-age-at-glasgow-climate-change-summit-12414696

Philippa Bond ● 945d

Absolutely, and we should start at the top.Both Bell and Mason's downright refusal to answer and clarify Mr Farmer's repeated and very simple question regarding the seemingly very murky appointment of the Chief Executive, Paul Najsarek, tells you ALL you need to know about this lot infecting Ealing Town Hall.

Rosco White ● 945d

Theres a few executives who need to resign and go an blight another borough too.It's not just councillors but allied executives who feed them and gain from them

Raymond Havelock ● 945d

Prepare for ATNs (Active Travel Neighbourhoods) if Mason et al are re-elected.Ye gods, if there was ever doubt about this lot it was the parroting of the 'listening' mantra from every Labour Councillor who spoke.Either the whips had done a good job or there has been collective 're-education' and brainwashing to effect deny Bell. Re,member these are the same people who voted time and again with the Dear Leader to implement LTNs.

N V Brooks ● 945d

Ah, but a lot of Labour councillors won’t be in the Town Hall after May.And Mason can’t do a Bell and simply impose things. Supposed to be open and transparent now. One thing made clear in the recent report was the utter and abject failure of the council to properly consult residents on any transport issue.

Simon Hayes ● 945d

And as Mr Barchuk has posted elsewhere, if Labour are returned next May, expect the LTNs to be reinstated?They just won't be called "LTNs" if so, but something else!                😁

Rosco White ● 946d