Forum Topic

Train to be an HGV Driver

https://ealingnewsextra.co.uk/latest-news/become-an-hgv-driver-2/We keep hearing about the shortages on the shelves and the lack of drivers due to the lack of HGV drivers.  Well here is a chance to get some training.

Philippa Bond ● 1481d41 Comments

I once drove a Leyland Octopus in a training course - A great name for an 8 wheeled HGV and a great looking truck.  But Wow! the sheer upper body strength needed to simply manoeuvre it was beyond my ability.How these guys drove them for hours on end long distance remains in awe.Loved the noise....for about an hour... and then I could not wait for lunch, just to get out of the cab!Modern trucks are light years apart but the fundamentals remain the same.I would recommend any Cyclist who still insists on ignoring most traffic regulations and signals to get in the cab of even a modern truck and see for themselves just how difficult their actions make it for an already hard pressed HGV or large vehicle driver.

Raymond Havelock ● 1458d

I remember being given a lift 'up front' on an Atkinson lorry from our offices on St. Mary's Road to a site on the Tyne Tunnel Trading Estate. A 4 am start followed by just under 300 miles of noisy purgatory. Riding up the M1 'topping out' at just under 60mph )on the downhill bits) I wondered if the journey would ever end. Never been so glad to get the train home on the following day

N V Brooks ● 1458d

I used to sometimes accompany him in the school holidays for short trips  , the engine noise in the cab was deafening , no  power steering if I recall , he had to stand up to turn the steering , four road wheels on the front .Not a big man but he had strong fore arms which he needed.

David Burke ● 1459d

Fodens then ERFs. How the hell did people drive those for 14 or 16 hours a day?  Brother-in-law drives and examines on HGVs up to 44 tonnes and my son-in-law drives and tests on virtually every category. His collection of 'tickets' and permits is bewildering. He currently has, IIRC, seven licences ranging from 'standard' artics to ADR for transporting hazardous loads (plus his PCV licences for buses and coaches) and is seemingly being tested on one or the other every couple of months. Add his 'airside' permits for driving on service areas. I feel incredibly safe when he is driving my daughter and grandchildren around as he simply treats all other road users as totally unpredictable.

N V Brooks ● 1459d

I would add that what also caught my eye about this article that Philippa brought to our attention was that my father was a long distance lorry driver in the sixties who drove rigid 18 ton Foden lorries .He would not drive an artic. due to the danger from "jack knifing"

David Burke ● 1459d

The topic David I most certainly do not find amusing. It is PB's posts which routinely only accept statements that meet her narrow dialogue, to which I refer. As I posted and then seeks to turn a serious topic into a claimed attack on trade unionism. I have two close relatives who are examiners and testing standards are tough and will remain so. It is the demands on drivers, notably LGV drivers, that are a scandal but these will not be addressed by the upcoming change as those who drive the white vans so beloved of many are not subject to such rigorous legislation. To be frank, they couldn't earn a living wage if they were and we virtually all share the blame with the incessant rise in the demand for home delivery. So please, take my 'amused' statement in context much like PB conflation of the Sterling Road tip closure into something that references solo yachtswomen. qv

N V Brooks ● 1459d

I'm not sure what you find amusing, I read the article when Philippa first raised the matter and my understanding was that the LCC- who quite rightly campaign for road safety - were concerned that standards MIGHT slip if driving instructions were shortened such as there being no distinction between driving short rigid trucks and artics.This coming shortly after the death  of another cyclist , a female doctor who aside from the personal tragedy will be a big loss to the community.

David Burke ● 1459d

Still (mildly) amusing.I read the entire article but did not immediately assume the LCC position of lowering standards which you embraced so enthusiastically nor try to turn it as an attack on trade union membership.#Forming an opinion without simply swallowing everything that you read online is important.

N V Brooks ● 1459d

Nigel:  Which bit of the article on the front page of this website have you not read?  http://www.ealingtoday.co.uk/default.asp?section=community&link=http://neighbournet.com/server/common/ldrstrans090.htm

Philippa Bond ● 1459d

Nice try, but I didn't make the totally fabricated claim did I ?

N V Brooks ● 1459d

I still think you should supply the proof that any streamlining doesn't make life more dangerous for cyclists.Time will tell.

Philippa Bond ● 1459d

Nigel, you won’t get anywhere with Philippa. Like other individuals on this site she sees no merit in debate in the accepted definition of that word. This forum simply serves as a pulpit from which to preach to those viewed as morally inferior.Perhaps such people ought to be restricted to posting on Sunday mornings only.

Simon Hayes ● 1460d

I am not arguing, I am pointing out your factual inaccuracy when you claim, without a shred of proof despite being asked three times, that standards for HGV testing are being reduced.  You can provide no proof, therefore you are wrong and there is nothing about which to argue.

N V Brooks ● 1460d

What are you arguing about?  We just need to know that all the hard work that has been done to protect the lives of cyclists and pedestrians ie those who are most vulnerable on the roads is maintained and not lost due to Govt changes. Cyclists can also take advantage of free online cycle training - which is a good idea whether you are a new cyclist or not as you may learn something and even get a free hat.We can tell from the signs on the backs of lorries that they can be a danger to cyclists in particular as the drivers just can't see them when they are positioned in certain places. 

Philippa Bond ● 1460d

Come on, so quoting something factually incorrect makes you correct does it? Wrong again but still entertaining in a strange way. Thankfully, nobody takes such posts seriously.

N V Brooks ● 1461d

I was merely drawing attention to the article on the front page.  I quoted the heading.

Philippa Bond ● 1461d

You claimed that standards are being lowered in the testing of HGV drivers. You have no proof. More noise and less substance is starting to become par for the course with some people's posts.

N V Brooks ● 1461d

What a joke when you spend all your time criticising the Council!I saw a video footage ages ago of Rees-Mogg saying how we could lower our standards in the country...  Perhaps we no longer need to keep to EU standards?  What about water - I've heard that we are reducing out strict standards there as well.What no cyclist wants to hear is that there is an increase in the number of cycling casualties as a result of accidents involving HGV drivers.  A lot of work has been done on that including by the family of a cyclist who was killed.

Philippa Bond ● 1461d

"You prove it isn't happening."  A variation on "The Lefty Swerve"!When you have no proof, and can't find any, challenge the other party to do the work and prove the point by dumping the onus on them.                  Brilliant Swerve!

Rosco White ● 1461d

I have two relatives who are both HGV examiners. I need prove nothing as the evidence you claim simply does not exist.Sorry madam, but you simply either need to put up or do the other thing.Quite frankly your " use any excuse to criticise the government" mantra is simply boring in the extreme. Time to learn a new tune perhaps.

N V Brooks ● 1461d

You prove it isn't happening.  We have a Govt that we can't trust.  Why shouldn't we think that this is the case?

Philippa Bond ● 1461d

Stick to recycling about which you at least have a passing knowledge.Standards for HGV training are not being lowered. Can you provide a link that shows that anything other than changing the wait time is happening Go on, you know how much you love links, find a relevant one for once. Relevance by the way does not mean the biased opinion of the LCC.

N V Brooks ● 1461d

This is a Govt who think it is OK to lower standards.  A Govt who lobbied the EU to lower the figures considered dangerous  for air pollution so that our illegal figures didn't look so bad. I think they have lowered water standards as well so why wouldn't we expect them to lower standards elsewhere?

Philippa Bond ● 1461d

Some cyclists simply need to live in the real world. No one has proposed the test to be made any easier just that the process is being foreshortened to enable both parts (rigid and articulated) to be taken in a shorter time frame. The LCC and their acolytes will doubtless be the first to complain when their favourite supermarket runs out of things because of the driver shortage.

N V Brooks ● 1461d

See front page article:http://www.ealingtoday.co.uk/default.asp?section=community&link=http://neighbournet.com/server/common/ldrstrans090.htm"No Short Cuts on HGV Driver Testing Say Cycling CampaignersProcess reportedly to be streamlined to tackle shortage"

Philippa Bond ● 1461d

I have read in the Manchester Evening News Waitrose lorry drivers earn up to £53780. Is this true?

Nicholas Beard ● 1471d

Not really, this was a case, extensively reported in Private Eye, where the union in question (or the leadership) refused to account for a six figure sum when asked to do so by a member who was promptly placed on a 'blacklist'.

N V Brooks ● 1475d

"..... where over half a million pounds had been spent on incidentals"The standard Lefty hypocrisy I suspect, Champagne Socialism?

Rosco White ● 1475d

No hollow laugh for those blacklisted and their membership withdrawn because they simply asked their union where over half a million pounds had been spent on incidentals.  As to the Unite case, remind me again of the verdict.

N V Brooks ● 1475d

The only reason low paid workers are mentioned is because Anna Turley a former Labour mp applied to join Unite  on a 50p low paid worker subscription in order to vote against Len McCluskey . She was called out by Skwawkbox a left wing news media page. Turley stated that she had misread the rule book and so the libel case began.Nothing to do with Unite failing to represent the low paid.Unions have a constant fight with employers to fight for representation for low paid workers.Amazon in particular. Ryanair in the past.With so.many youngsters on zero hours contracts and the gig economy there has never been a greater need for unions Unfortunately these were shackled by Thatcher and to his shame Blair never resolved this.Regarding HGV drivers I couldn't believe the low rates of pay quoted recently , my dad was a long distance lorry driver back in the sixties and he was on good money but then again it was a growing economy unlike now where it seems to be a race to the bottom.As for your remark about black listing this raised a hollow laugh , thinking about the Economic League who in cohorts with employers ruined many people's lives by preventing them earning their livelihood because of trade union activities.

David Burke ● 1475d

Given your propensity for posting blind links, try: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/29/unite-union-funding-legal-battles-low-paid-workers  Then read the background data.Says a lot when The Guardian starts criticising unions.

N V Brooks ● 1475d

You really need to look at what is happening within unions rather than making a thinly-veiled attack on employers simply because it suits some archaic socialist narrative.There are countless examples of cronyism, disappearing funds, misogyny, homophobia and other ills that should make any right-minded person, let alone a supposed socialist baulk.As example, union members 'blacklisted' for having the audacity to ask where their funds were being spent.High profile union links to companies accused of bribery and corruption. These two, of many. examples don't sound like the employee representative organisations that some may still believe is the purpose of a union.There is doubtless much good work still being done at branch level but executives now often attract the same type of self-serving individual now so prevalent in local politics.

N V Brooks ● 1475d

So you don't think that unions are being run any more for the benefit of their members?  You don't think that the attack on unions is because higher wages and better welfare reduce the costs to the employers who make bigger profits at their workers' expense?

Philippa Bond ● 1476d

They were indeed but a number of unions are now seemingly run for the sole benefit of the union leaders rather then the members.  Union leaders pulling down over £100,000 per annum are no longer the exception. Riches of which their members can only dream.

N V Brooks ● 1476d

Weren't unions started in Victorian times to improve the pay and working conditions of workers?

Philippa Bond ● 1476d

£25000.00 makes it even worse. I was going by the radion phone in. However a freight train driver is a really well paid profession then!

Nicholas Beard ● 1479d

Very few HGV drivers earn anything like £50,000. I have two relatives who drive HGVs and they would be VERY happy to earn that kind of salary.Most earn between £25-35,000 per annum and that is for HGV1 drivers. HGV2 or LGV drivers are lucky if they earn £25,000.

N V Brooks ● 1480d

There was a phone in about HGV drivers. It seems to be badly paid with long hours. Also waiting around at supermarkets with no proper facilities or inadequate  facilities. One driver said he only earned £50000.00  a year despite long hours. Compare this to a train driver on a freight train and he said it was very poor.

Nicholas Beard ● 1480d

Indeed they are,John Lewis among others is paying retention bonuses to its HGV drivers as they can almost name their price having been underpaid for years

N V Brooks ● 1481d

Even the big stores are having trouble getting delivery drivers.

Philippa Bond ● 1481d

Just to explain, Class2 drivers can drive 'rigid' vehicles like dustcarts and large delivery vans. Pass four more tests and you stand a chance of getting a Class1 licence which means that you can drive articulated vehicles which is where there is a chronic shortage of drivers.

N V Brooks ● 1481d

Those are for basic Class 2 licences which is not the class needed to distribute goods from manufacturers and depots to supermarkets.

N V Brooks ● 1481d