Forum Topic

Julian Bell fights back claiming LTNs were popular

Interesting article in the Guardian featuring 'analysis' from Julian Bell about the Mayoral election results and what they tell us about LTNs. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/02/cycling-schemes-popular-with-london-voters-analysis-finds He seems to be getting a very obvious dig in at Peter Mason as the Commonplace consultation system presented a very different picture. Although the central claim of the piece, that the LTNs were actually popular and a vote winner for Labour, is nonsense the analysis does raise some very interesting points. You can reach a definitive conclusion about the popularity of LTNs based on Mayoral results. People will have voted on a whole range of issues and, time and time again research has confirmed that national politics determines how a large proportion of people vote in local elections. The LTN wards were also the Remain supporting, predominantly middle class professional wards that did so well across the country for Labour so it is a huge leap to say the result was an endorsement of the former leader's policies particularly as he was actually implementing it in partnership with a Conservative government. However, it cannot be denied that there is no evidence of a significant swing away from Labour as a result of LTNs. While it can't be claimed that the results show that LTNs are popular it also is clear that they aren't the main issue most people in the borough are concerned about at the moment. The only firm conclusion these results can really bring us to is that it is wrong to be distracted by noise made by people on social media.

Gordon Southwell ● 1562d56 Comments

traffic calming and roiute blocking can benefit some people at the others expense , as such it was a bad idea , traffic routes are mostly legacy and people buy and rent property knowing as such , people who buy next to A40 buy at a lower price . maybe if Julian or Peter owned properties on A40 they would block it off and arrange for traffic to move on other roads

Paul Taylor ● 1521d

Shouldn't all those who vote have to pass those tests?  Or is navigating the voting paper and getting there considered enough?

Philippa Bond ● 1532d

I have no idea, but the consensus would seem to be that Mason is exactly the same as BellEnd, if not worse.Enlightening and informative comments on here welcome.  😊

Rosco White ● 1533d

Diffusion tubes were removed at a number of locations but Ealing still claims that pollution is below EU guideline levels.More on topic, one has to ask, Julian who?  Sounds like bleating from 'yesterday's man' who cannot even win a popularity contest among his own disciples.

N V Brooks ● 1533d

No-one can deny the benefits of cycling and walking.  However, I object to the way the LTN were introduced (and removed) without consulting residents.  Secondly, the EBC have never declared the metrics by which the success or otherwise of the LTN will be measured against.  I have noticed some traffic-measuring devices have been sneakily located on some streets but what about air quality monitoring?

alan raine ● 1533d

No right minded person would ever go into politics or certainly party politics.

Raymond Havelock ● 1547d

  🤣

Rosco White ● 1547d

If an intelligence test was a requirement for public office we’d be very short of councillors and MPs.

Simon Hayes ● 1547d

Take your point Mr Havelock, and you are a formidable fellow to disagree with 😨, however I would still put forward that some sort of basic intelligence & literacy test is required, in conjunction with of course the fine and expected qualities that you espouse, but are woefully lacking in far too many of our Councillors.And Senior Management and Staff at The Ealing Kremlin.

Rosco White ● 1547d

I don't think that should be the case.A good communicator, a strong sense of values  from right and wrong and the ability to ask questions and listen. And a good resistance to manipulation, bullying and ashore corruption of any sort.Qualities that one can have irrespective of intelligence or profession, but becoming increasingly rare.We may have some intelligent people as councillors, but the real qualities needed they seem to be somewhat bereft . The same ought to go for senior officers who are public servants paid by the public purse

Raymond Havelock ● 1547d

Unfortunately, there isn't, and it should be a legal requirement, to sit for and pass a Basic Intelligence & Literacy Test before running for Public Office.This is especially vital and relevant at Local Councillor level.

Rosco White ● 1547d

I think you can apply that to most politicians.The debacle of Gunnersbury Park shows that Councillors just take for gospel whatever is fed to them by officers.They don't read to take the trouble to find out if the facts they are presented with are actually fact or manipulated fact.Same with LTNs. Too many buried their heads in the sand, same with developments.Then again they are often deluged with telephone directory fixed documents and no-one other than maybe lawyers can make much inroad on such volume is a short time.Some council officer written reports are dreadful, more focussed on the waffle of political correctness and irrelevant required criteria than the actual issue.And clearly some senior officers are influencing what others present.Bullying is the usual word.

Raymond Havelock ● 1547d

It seems a lot of Tories don't read/know what they vote for.https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-ten-point-plan-for-a-green-industrial-revolution

Philippa Bond ● 1548d

Publicly funded hardware purposely designed to make the 1% of road users have full freedom of the roads, while purposely making life absolute hell for the other 99% or road users isn't even a genuine policy, it is pure hatred of those who use cars and buses to get around. But although Bell had these pipedreams years ago, these are really Boris Johnson's nationwide policy, Locally using Khan and Labour Councils to implement them as useful idiots. But 1% is hardly popular over 99%.If they pitted any 1% over the 99% on any subject a decade ago you would of had riots. In 2021 we are too soft and just roll over and take it.

Leslie Bailey ● 1554d

Insightful and accurate as usual Mr Havelock.I particularly agree with " ............. we continually get the wrong people in positions of decision making who are far from fit for purpose.".      😉

Rosco White ● 1554d

Quite frankly he and several others, and not just elected, and not just in this borough need to be fully investigated.If people think  Dominic Cummings is an affront to democracy, he at least was prominent and critical of what really goes on behind closed doors.There are Dominic Cummins and Andrew Gilligan types marbled all through out system, along with reams of highly paid consultants, silent, unseen and unanswerable to the public and all plugged into the likes of Bell and politicians.They don't get these positions without something backing them. And I'm convinced that is why we continually get the wrong people in positions of decision making who are far from fit for purpose.Micros case of that is the Junta of management and board of Gunnersbury Park, a public park  gradually being made exclusive rather than inclusive. With high salaried executives and a culture of self serving cliques.

Raymond Havelock ● 1554d

Hopefully all the wheels are gonna come off all his gravy trains now, the man has been responsible for irrepairable damage to Ealing Borough and deserves nothing less.

Rosco White ● 1555d

We should also question whether  The Dear Leader retains his paid positions at:Old Oak and Park Royal Development CorporationThe Local Government AssociationLondon Councils

N V Brooks ● 1556d

Questions should be asked of Khan & Co as to WHY BellEnd is on tfl's Board at all, he appears to have NO "Qualifications" whatsoever? Other than Political.  Of course.The other Board Members seem to have quals coming out of their ears, but BellEnd is conspicuous for looking to be an empty numpty.Why is he on tfl's Board????

Rosco White ● 1556d

Bell’s nonsense is soundly debunked by consultation professionals here:https://www.consultationinstitute.org/apples-oranges-and-low-traffic-neighbourhoods/?fbclid=IwAR0m_iVEfyeik93gHloTqC4-YZQZxzgEqVMfEImMIRz1VK_0N7SvtcsbRUE

Simon Hayes ● 1556d

>>Rosco asks>> How the hell does a complete non-entity like BellEnd get onto the Board of tfl????It's not 'what' you know, it's 'who' you know.  In the case of Bell, the former 'very little', the latter 'friends'.

Tony Heath ● 1556d

How the hell does a complete non-entity like BellEnd get onto the Board of tfl????Ha Ha, his "Profile" contains ........... ZERO information!  Is that because he has NOTHING of any substance in his entire work history?!!!!https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/corporate-governance/board-members#on-this-page-2

Rosco White ● 1556d

Mr Bell has wormed his way onto the Board of TfL.tel are already working at finding other ways to return LTN using divide and rule methods but far more covert rather than the hammer blow approach which so backfired.As for Rat Running, there is no actual definition. No survey actually stops and asks and the only data so far quoted regards a vehicle from another CPZ or register to a non local address as a rat runner even if actually from  just a few streets away.Of course vehicles can be registered to work addresses and a district is a local district.Plus the attempt to change as built distributor roads  ( of which the house prices have always reflected this) as a denial of their purpose is simply warped. Even in Horse drawn days these were busier roads for obvious reasons.Having risen around a lot these last few weeks some of the road surfaces are truly awful to ride on.It would be far better to sort out all these terrible surfaces in the quieter roads and larger roads to to allow smooth and safer cycling for those who do ride locally.

Raymond Havelock ● 1557d

I have a truly horrible feeling that BellEnd isn't "going quietly into the night", or whatever the quote/saying is.People like him are zealously determined to force feed their warped ideologies on you and will expend huge energy in their efforts doing so. Any even remote nuance of "Democracy" doesn't come into it.I'd say "Watch this space" when it comes to BellEnd and his antics for he'll be back.Just like a bad smell.

Rosco White ● 1558d

Is your road being a 'bit of a rat run' enough justification to push that traffic onto your neighbour's roads?

N V Brooks ● 1558d

I have to say I was impressed with the response I had from a Guardian journalist over a recent very slanted and inaccurate TfL story.After providing her with the correct facts and verification sources and points of contact, she replied and indeed had simply been spoon fed the story from TfL and the quoted sources turned out to be TfL associates briefed by TfL.I think she was a bit shocked to realise that an organisation she perceived as credible would stoop to such, but that's the dangers of relying on PR or Press Offices only.  With so few journalists with pressure to file and on the next story, this has left the door wide open to such means.Much to my surprise, She did indeed follow up and make calls and completely rewrote the story but only for the web pages. Too late for print, the damage is done.It comes down to lack of learning the job and naivety. And possibly the influences of others to hinder impartial questioning. My friends have increasingly said their jobs are getting harder not easier and even asking simple questions is tricky and despite FoI, evading and delaying to kill a story is now pretty much the norm.

Raymond Havelock ● 1558d

In some areas of Ealing they were asked for by the residents. I wonder if there would be more if any street could ask for an LTN? I wish there was one on mine it is a bit of a rat run.

Ben Stallwitz ● 1558d

I read the online version as a habit, my son used to help edit it. Ignoring the sometimes rabid ''journalists'' that tear into any and everything blue with great gusto, they do have some very readable articles. The real need for them is to somehow convert the worth of the online version to prop up the poor circulation of the paper that, on some days, is literally not worth printing as it makes little or so money. They might then be able to stop telling me how many articles I have read over the last year and asking for a contribution

peter king ● 1559d

Quite a balanced view Mr Havelock but where I would take issue "factual reporting and not opinion led reporting " I'm looking at todays editio, on the front page a report on vaccination by Sarah Boseley on the inside pages reports by :Mark Brown Arts correspondentHelen Pidd North of England editorNatalie Grover Science correspondentEtc etc.The point being these journalists can all be challenged on their bone fides.I would say that the journal section is where the opinion formers are  Marina Hyde ,Jonathan Friedland etc. This is polemic and makes for healthy debate.You can always put your view on the online edition  which is free unlike the Telegraph or the Times.

David Burke ● 1559d

Theres nothing wrong with reporting or writing from a different point of view,The balance is the strength of a choice of newspapers.The rub is properly checked and factual reporting and not opinion led reporting.Most papers have fallen into that mode. Guardian being the poorest for this.It's treatment of seasoned journalists and production people has been shameful for quite a long time.  The last place one would expect such methods.But the online editions for free has completely undermined the salaries and employment status of journalists, photographers and all those who make a paper function to its best.The Guardian was one of the first to do a subscription firewall.The subscription firewall editions are far better.The free online ones like the Mail online and Express online are dire as is the local paper versions. Almost completely unusable from adverts and very poor reporting.Those who don't want to pay for it fuel the downward spiral of freedom of journalism.I have several pals in this business and they are right across the spectrum, but united on one thing, the damage to press freedom, bad enough by external forces but made far worse by managed decline from within.

Raymond Havelock ● 1559d

Well you should be concerned about their employee status rather than living in some self-satisfied socialist bubble. The Guardian, along with a number of other papers, had treated it's journalists appallingly. The Guardians hypocrisy in so doing, while maintaing or increasing management remuneration is a measure of quite how far it has departed from its founding ideals.

N V Brooks ● 1559d

I'm not concerned about their employee status it's what they write is what I'm interested in.I read a paper to be informed .Leaving aside the schoolboy remarks,the Guardian is available free on line where as you can only access the Telegraph behind a paywall. The Guardian is also issued in a European edition which adds to its readership.

David Burke ● 1559d

My mistake, Burke is still a staffer, as for Cohen he is now exclusively Observer which when combined with The Grauniad has a combined circulation less than The Torygraph.

N V Brooks ● 1559d

Of those you list I think that Monbiot is the only staffer. The rest are now technically freelancers and treated accordingly by the management team at the chip wrapper, sorry Grauniad.

N V Brooks ● 1559d

Having been a reader of the Guardian and Observer for many years , the notion that people such as George Monbiot  Gary Yonge Jason Burke , Nick Cohen and Mathew Engel to quote just a small number are not serious journalists is laughable. Perhaps they could make some contributions to the Ealing Forum which at times is nothing more than a Tory/ echo chamber.

David Burke ● 1559d

I read The Grauniad's puff piece on George Floyd.It was an, errrr, interesting point of view.

Rosco White ● 1560d

Got it in one. My son is a sub editor at a national daily (he used to work at the Guardian). He's seen a lot of new ''journalists'' come through lately without the grasp of how to write English properly he says. I agree on the local newspaper comment, that's how Bellend and co get away with taking the mick as they have continued to do, without this forum, we'd be in the dark.

peter king ● 1560d

The Guardian has discarded all but a few diligent journalists and now use 'journalists' who ought to be on local papers learning their craft.Similar at other papers and even the BBC.So it is now full of activist influenced and unimpartial  inexperienced people who may well be able to write, but clearly lack the skills of actual reporting and far too reliant on the internet and not getting out and finding out the real truth. It's not their fault, the demise of local and quality regional newspapers and the 'if we can get away with not paying and avoid employing proper journalists' culture of management purveys - Not unlike a lot of other industries.The problem with this area is that it leads to the rise of the power and ego abusers in a raft of authorities whose methods go largely undetected and unreported to the mainstream public until it is too late

Raymond Havelock ● 1560d

Almost correct, it is an apology for a newspaper and the way that it has treated it's journalists and freelancers in particular is dreadful. There seem to be a chosen few journos who have escaped the cuts while management bonuses remain largely unscathed.

N V Brooks ● 1560d

The voting patterns in the Mayoral election show pretty clearly this is not the case. Looking across London and the Home Counties it would appear Labour has made big gains among middle class professionals from the last local election including in wards like Northfields. These were probably Remainers who were discouraged from voting Labour at the last local election because Corbyn was in charge.Nationally the picture looks different mainly because of vaccine gratitude and an 11% rise in house prices over the last year but the latter doesn't apply in London because prices have been static.The latest ward analysis suggests that Conservatives will be wiped out in areas such as Ealing Common and Northfields which is a shame because the Conservative councillors who represent those areas do a good job. Although I am a Labour voter despite any supposed 'Stalinism' in the local party, I do recognise that it is a very bad thing if there is no effective opposition on the council. However, that looks like where we are heading next year with the Tories hanging on in Ealing Broadway and Hanger Hill with the Lib Dems holding Southfield and the rest of the borough solidly red.

Andy Jones ● 1560d

Yes, the Grauniad is an apology for a right wing newspaper.

Philippa Bond ● 1560d

We live in hope Mr Hayes.Nothing short of a complete clearing out of Local Labour's Stalinism from LBE will be acceptable.As you say, the good citizens of Ealing Borough have had "Enough!"  👍

Rosco White ● 1560d

We’ll see what happens next May. There will be a number of Labour councillors out on their ears. They know who they are.And it’s not just LTNs. People are sick of the overdevelopment everywhere as well. Even in Southall, where Mason was conspicuously quiet on planning matters for years despite holding the portfolio.What has become obvious is that a lot of people in Ealing are now far more engaged in what the Council is doing in ‘Julian’s borough’, and they don’t like it. That wasn’t the case even 12 months ago.

Simon Hayes ● 1561d

Obviously the Guardian's coverage is deficient in that it describes Julian Bell's opinion of the results as analysis, something which he is not qualified to do, and doesn't attempt to consider alternative explanations. However, he is not wrong to say there were no apparent electoral consequences of the LTN policy even in the wards in which they were most controversial. This surprised me as I thought there would be and think it is a safe assumption that councillors representing those wards assumed there would be as well. As far as I am aware how the councillors split in the vote between Mason and Bell has never been published but the assumption would be that those in the wards affected by LTN 21 went with Cllr Mason on the basis the policy would lost them their seats. It must be galling to Cllr Bell that he wasn't able to do his 'analysis' to show them they had nothing to worry about.

Gordon Southwell ● 1561d

Having read the article i think it is rather simplistic. People vote generally for the party that is best for them despite the odd gripe. They know that the LTN's were foisted on Sadiq Khan by the government in order to make him look unpopular in some areas. Only once did large numbers desert Labour and that was over the West London Tram which Pinocchio promised to cancel. Obviously Bell is trying to justify his existence!!

Peter Chadburn ● 1561d

I'm constantly amused at how PC Liberal Lefties ALWAYS severely denigrate The Daily Mail, V often on here, whilst thinking that The Grauniad is some sort of unbiased, superior Bible Of Great Truth.All the papers are varying degrees of rubbish, but the Lefty "canonisation" of The Grauniad totally baffles me - it's utter shite.  😄

Rosco White ● 1561d

If you were still allowed to wrap fish and chips in newspaper there still remains no use for The Grauniad. A dreadful apology for a newspaper.

N V Brooks ● 1561d

Just read The Grauniad article, what a load of garbage, talk about selective and biased - and Lefties have the temerity to deride The Daily Mail!!!          😂

Rosco White ● 1561d

That’s not how it works

Colin Goodman ● 1561d

Bell is trying to spin what we’re fairly inconsequential by-elections into something they are not. There was a sizeable swing to the LibDems, who were decidedly against LTNs. What he fails to mention is the wards were ones unaffected by the current schemes.But then once a liar, always a liar. Only halfwits will believe what he says.

Simon Hayes ● 1562d

BellEnd's Cheer Squad is alive and well, believing their own BS.As usual    😂

Rosco White ● 1562d

Declan, succinct and accurate.

N V Brooks ● 1562d

Deluded

Declan Devine ● 1562d

There were also posts on social media from pro-groups urging people to give feedback. There is no logical reason to claim that a post on a relatively small Facebook Group would have totally distorted the outcome.A 'CPZ-style' consultation should tell us once and for all exactly how popular or unpopular these schemes are. I think the ones in Acton have a good chance of getting at least a qualified thumbs up from residents.

Andy Jones ● 1562d

"as the Commonplace consultation system presented a very different picture."There's a green one showing through, quick get some red ones over it!(c) "Ealing Residents against LTNs" Facebook group.

Paul James ● 1562d

Sorry the link to the story doesn't work unless it is set to open in a new window. The one below should be fine https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/02/cycling-schemes-popular-with-london-voters-analysis-finds

Gordon Southwell ● 1562d