Forum Topic

90,000 Homeless Children in London This Christmas.

All V V sad, however I would dearly like to know what percentage have been "imported"?Not a statement, a question. I, and I'm sure many others on here, would simply be interested to know.And I'm also sure someone will be on here like a shot with the answers! But please quote your sources.    😁

Rosco White ● 1603d29 Comments

I was reading this morning that for the first time in its history UNCEF has been called in to help feed children in the uk. I saw on TV how Itlay is looking after foreign children. A special language course is provided to help the learn Italian. Internet and laptops are provided. Also a special adult is provided to check the children and to make sure they are getting their full benefits and being looked after.

Nicholas Beard ● 1593d

Serious question (at the risk of exposing my ignorance) but how can the HoL scupper any bill?Express an opinion, yes; propose changes, yes; but scupper?

Tony Colliver ● 1595d

A very good combination of Gaslighting and Ad Hominem, Well Done!!I asked a Question, and you are still constantly trying to swerve it onto another tack/topic which suits you.You can't read and understand a simple Question without going off on a PC Woke tangent.  😁"Not a statement, a Question", as usual, which bit of that don't you understand?  🤣

Rosco White ● 1596d

Don't really think it is a question of anyone being offended perhaps rather it is a question of frustration that you are so unwilling to listen to information that contradicts your world view, one which is singularly lacking in the goodwill that should characterise this time of year.You clearly are one of those people who have had enough of experts and female ones in particular but if you genuinely wanted to understand what was going on here you need to take on board what you are being told. It is not opinion but fact.The figure of 90,000 appears to be collated from local authority data. Councils cannot and will not house anyone presenting themselves to them that they do not have an obligation to provide housing for. There is no data on the precise number of children who are being housed in temporary accommodation who are foreign born because that isn't relevant to whether or not they entitled to support. As has been explained multiple times to you there are a additional restrictions on who is entitled to this support which means that the number of foreign born children will definitely be a small proportion of the 90,000.While most of the children in temporary accommodation will be British born, I think we can assume from the tone of your posts that you believe that being born in this country does not make you British. By your definition of imported based on skin colour and language spoken by parents would mean that a larger proportion of homeless children are 'imported'. Most people don't care about this distinction.

Andy Jones ● 1596d

  😂  👌

Rosco White ● 1600d

You may be referencing our PM who has numerous children in and out of wedlock, it is thought nine at the last count, and is continuously complaining about being short of money, whist having at his disposal two grace and favour homes large enough to house them all.

Libby Kemp ● 1600d

Ha Ha, plenty trying as usual to make a simple Question political by swerving it onto their pet Agendas.All very boring, and predictable.SO many on here who can't read and understand a straightforward Question, without getting all offended.  😂Just read my Question please, and answer it, with verifiable facts, other than "My wife says...."  🤣

Rosco White ● 1600d

PS.Is not the idea that a worker via his hard earned tax contributions,should subsidise the low wages of other workers so that big business can prosper just a little eccentric, to say the least?

Keith Iddon ● 1600d

No argument here about that, Chris.Employers, particularly the big ones like the supermarkets, have dodged paying a decent wage for years on the grounds that low wages will be topped up by taxpayers via what was known originally as Family Income Supplement then Income Support as tax credits etc.This has enabled them to pay low wages whilst their profits increase.My reading of the attempt by George Osbourne's attempt at abolishing these type of credits being scuppered by the House of Lords has as much to do with the big business connections of many members there (nudge nudge,wink wink funny handshake) as it has to do with the no doubt many members who are truly altruistic.We must remember that it was Major who brought in tax credits etc,. and we have to ask ourselves why a Tory government would do that at all.

Keith Iddon ● 1600d

These children will not be homeless the majority will be living in self contained accommodation leased by Council's from landlords and housing associations.A large proportion of the households will just have one parent.There are properties available in the private sector but workers on minimum wage are not able to pass referencing to quality for them.  Employers need to pay at least the Living Wage of £10.85 in London and give full time contracts.  There are still some employers paying cash in hand which needs to be stopped.

Chris Lucy ● 1600d

'The other side' did not claim to know facts, as Mark does,nor does it support the orange monstrosity,it merely asked a question.Jump to whatever conclusions suit your purpose.

Keith Iddon ● 1600d

Mark has actually laid out the facts of how our benefit and immigration system works which makes it very unlikely that a significant portion of these children are of the sort that Keith Iddon and Rosco White would rather not have to care for.He makes a compelling case. If someone disagrees it would be better to explain why his wrong rather than demonstrate a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word 'factual'.There will always be some who wish to stick to their alternative facts though.

Andy Jones ● 1600d

Yes Mark,but the other side have no facts to back up their claim. Maybe they heard it from Donald Trump? or the Cookie Monster? But we do have a situation which is going to get a lot worse where children who may be in temporary accommodation are classed as homeless. The problem with the economic hit we are under (which will get worse next year) is that many more people will be unemployed and be on benefits and included in that figure are a lot of children. The origin of families/place of birth is irrelevant to this argument. if they have a legal right whether Polish, English, Welsh, Portuguese is irrelevant. They are all people who have some investment in this country. Unlike the brexiteer millionaires whose money is always somewhere else.

Peter Chadburn ● 1600d

There you go Mark,trying to making your opinion seem factual.You have presented no 'evidence'to back up what you claim.I am far from deaf or blind to anything that is presented with some empirical,non anecdotal evidence.

Keith Iddon ● 1600d

I'm not going to engage in a pointless debate on semantics with you. It is pretty clear that, whatever kind of evidence is presented , you would be deaf and blind to anything which challenged your fixed preconceived notions as to the nature of this problem.If it makes you sleep easier that this isn't an issue that need concern you because most of the children involved are of the wrong sort then that is something between you and your maker.For anyone else who actually wants to know the scale and true nature of the problem and why there is no room at the inn for so many children this Christmas I would repeat the suggestion of trying to find someone who has practical day to day experience in dealing with the matter. You will be shocked by what you hear.

Mark Evans ● 1600d

It seems that anecdotes rapidly becoming facts in some quarters.I appreciate that there are many circumstances that cause homelessness and wonder how many one patent families there are in that situation as a result of family breakdown or absentee fathers.It might be wise for some to use the old rule of thumb that if you can't afford to put a roof over your child's head, don't have it, but it's way too late for common sense and responsibility now.

Keith Iddon ● 1601d

"The professional experience of someone who has to deal with the issue first hand is factual."Rubbish.    🤣

Rosco White ● 1601d

The professional experience of someone who has to deal with the issue first hand is factual.If you are disputing the accuracy, which is a bit rich coming from someone who doggedly insists that Asian people are primarily responsible for the spread of covid based on his 'observations', you need to explain how it could be possible that foreign born children make up a significant proportion of those that are homeless in London.There are four main ways a child can enter this country and become resident. Presumably you are not concerned about children born overseas to British citizens. Of the other three means of entry, as I explained, those who come through the asylum system will be housed, those who were coming through EU FoM do not retain the right to be housed long term if their parents are out of work and those that apply for residency are subject to very strict conditions when it comes to dependents by the Home Office. Can I suggest you talk to someone with direct experience in these matters and they will confirm these facts to you?Necessarily they mean that the overwhelming proportion of homeless children in London this Christmas will have been born in this country.

Mark Evans ● 1601d

Hardly factual then?However, if you're saying that anecdotally, and from her personal observation, that is what your wife is seeing, then that is fine, but it's still an opinion.    😆

Rosco White ● 1601d

That's very kind of you. On the cabinet member for housing there was an earlier thread on being promoted to his level of incompetence. Whatever your view on Peter Mason he did appear to have a sound understanding of his brief.

Mark Evans ● 1601d

As stated in my post.

Mark Evans ● 1601d

"The vast majority of children homeless in London this Christmas will be born in this country."Factual source/s please?

Rosco White ● 1601d

Thank you Mark for your excellent response.  This borough is very poor at building social housing, and did not ask for any in the Mayors grant allocation, Southwark asked for and received money for about 800 social housing homes.  They should be building social housing on the land they own instead of selling it off to developers, which appears to happen all too regularly. Ealing also has c. 500 empty homes and these don't include the new builds which have failed to sell. I asked the councillor who has Cabinet responsibility for Housing, but he didn't understand the difference between Affordable Housing and Social Housing, maybe this could be the reason we have a shortage?

Libby Kemp ● 1601d

Depends what you mean by 'imported'. If you mean pureblood Anglo-Saxon you don't deserve a response.If you mean foreign born, I don't have any actual figures but I do have a spouse who works in this area and she has a good understanding of the situation.The vast majority of children homeless in London this Christmas will be born in this country. The Home Office is very rigorous about allowing people in with dependents and it is very difficult to bring children into the UK if you don't have verifiable means to support them.If you are an EU citizen your entitlement to benefits and to be housed is restricted if you are out of work. There may be some in work EU citizens with families who are being housed but the number will be very small as most people with a family will return home if they no longer have work.Ironically this situation may change after Brexit. Settled status may actually extend the rights of EU citizens to benefits as they will no longer have them curtailed if they lose their jobs.Asylum seeker families will almost universally not be classed as homeless because they are not allowed to work until their right of residence is confirmed and therefore are high up the list for housing. Obviously this squeezes the available stock but we are obliged to take asylum seekers by international treaty and take a far lower proportion as a percentage of population than most other developed countries.The 'affordable' housing being built by Ealing Council is not social housing and is beyond the reach of most people on average income or below let alone recent arrivals to this country. The lack of social housing stock in this country down to government policy not asylum seekers. Much of the stock we had has been sold off under right to buy legislation. I have no objection to this in principle but it makes no sense that the money raised was not invested in new stock.The number of foreign born children currently classed as being homeless is therefore probably quite small. It is also economically illiterate to suggest that we cannot afford the cost of housing them. The biggest economic challenge this country faces is an aging population and our birth rate is so low that we are heading to an unsustainable ratio of pensioners to working population. We really need to 'import' more children if we can.Therefore the notion that homeless children are an unacceptable burden based on a false premise. Even if those without homes in London were 'imported' it would be very much in our economic interest to house them properly.

Mark Evans ● 1601d

There is one imported homeless child who keeps on turning up this time of year. His parents claim they had to leave their own country because of a census. You are all probably unaware of Him.

Christine Mulligan ● 1601d

The article states that councils don't have enough social housing. Ealing Council has been approving tall buildings all over the place; it could have insisted on a higher percentage designated as social housing if it really wanted to.

Vlod Barchuk ● 1601d

The article states that councils don't have enough social housing. Ealing Council has been approving tall buildings all over the place; it could have insisted on a higher percentage designated as social housing if it really wanted to.

Vlod Barchuk ● 1601d

Now THAT, is a sensible, fair, and reasonable comment, without unnecesary and unfounded accusations.  👍

Rosco White ● 1603d

Indeed Rosco, my feeling is that although we do have a housing crisis, we also have a people crisis.I believe strongly in feeding the world (and helping the people of other countries where possible) but I am not sure we can be expected to be able to provide housing,schooling and healthcare for it as well.

Keith Iddon ● 1603d