Forum Topic

London Fire Brigade and Low Traffic Neighbourhoods

One thing that struck me was the attitude of the official spokesperson for London Fire Brigade when asked about LTNs. Their words were more of a political statement of affirmation for the principle of these schemes which gave no indication that there might be operational implications. What has become clear is that Ealing Council did indeed consult with the Fire Brigade but their assent to the scheme was a rubber stamp with no attempt made to verify the safety of the proposals. I appreciate there are a lot of these schemes being imposed across London at the moment but surely the appropriate thing to do would be to devolve the checking to local stations and get them to confirm. What appears to have happened is that no notice whatsoever was given to the local stations and the first time they became aware of the restrictions is when they found their way blocked by one. In at least one case it is not disputed that the barriers were blocking the progress of fire engines and many residents seem to believe that they continue to provide obstructions. The only person who could clarify this matter is the chief of the local fire station but his or her opinion doesn't seem to have been deemed to be important.

Gordon Southwell ● 1705d7 Comments

All I can say is simply go and speak with those who are on the front line and see what they say but bear in mind they get in trouble if quoted so don't betray their honesty.

Raymond Havelock ● 1704d

Maybe they're ok with it and it isn't a massive conspiracy?

Kevin Wilson ● 1704d

I always understood that the Fire Brigade had the absolute & ultimate authority, and that they could stop/shut down ANY development if it didn't meet their strict criteria.Given years of political meddling etc this appears no longer to be the case and their "authority" has been significantly eroded down to virtual rubber stamping?Like MANY things in our society, this has gone too far, and is still going in the totally wrong direction.Common Sense has been a brutally assaulted casualty.

Rosco White ● 1704d

Funny enough in the days of the LCC and Early GLC, Fire appliances were designed to very strict size parameters. This was to allow appliances to be utilised at any station in any district and the many narrow streets in London. 7'6" max.Only some specialist vehicles were wider or longer. Turntable ladders etc which remained at a max of 8'Buses in London were also width restricted to the same width until the 1950s and road widening.This also applied to refuse vehicles and service vehicles.Fire Appliances were wider from around 1968 but in recent years they are now wider still at a time when roads are being made less wide and cars have become wider in the last 15 years.The Metropolitan Police had overall say on widths of service vehicles from Buses to Ambulances and Fire Appliances.Now it's dictated by politicians and what is available off the shelf.  Hence why so many council refuse vehicles have not fitted the streets which remain mostly the same as 80 years ago.How pragmatic they were 70 years ago when cars were smaller and street narrow that they still made for the space available.Now service vehicles are too wide for many streets and it's not even factored in as a prerequisite for procurement.But then common sense is verboten by our administrative classes

Raymond Havelock ● 1704d

Are fire engines a standard size? And are LTN bollards put in with a standard gap between them and are they of a standard design? If so, the argument that local consultation with fire stations was required does not stand up, if not it does.

James Putland ● 1705d

As usual, par for the course, and standard dodgy LBE Procedure.Something Rotten In The State Of Ealing?YES INDEED!

Rosco White ● 1705d

True to form the only communication with all the emergency services was via the political levels at HQs.The local commanders have been put in a spot and what is being said by HQ is far from what is being said by those who have to respond to calls.Even with feedback from front line operatives, the Local Comanders hands are tied.The Council cabinet members know this and have remained aloof to the reality and used the system.The worst of this is this is how Fire and Ambulance concerns over access to Grenfell and other tower blocks has been ignored time and time again and any Commander who makes a stand gets either a handsome early retirement package or promoted to a sideline position.If it's your livelihood and career what would you do?And when a mishap does occur, it will be the Commanders who take the flack and the politicians as ever slip into the shadows.LBE did not even inform Refuse managers and it appears that the costs involved in extra time and mileage will have to go on Council tax as will the 'funding' from TfL as this will also need to be recovered.Their cavalier attitude to health and safety and lack of concern for the many over 60s in the district is something they really ought to be fully liable for.

Raymond Havelock ● 1705d