Forum Topic

Is it wrong to hope Trump gets COVID-19?

Was very sorry to hear that Boris Johnson has caught coronavirus even though I am not his number one fan. With a pregnant girlfriend it must be an especially worrying time for him and I hope he pulls through.It struck me though it is not as clear cut should Trump catch the disease. His vanity and ineptitude has led to America having the highest number of cases in the world and he still appears to be a major bar to an effective policy response. It isn't an exaggeration to say that hundreds of people will die because of him. That raises the ethical question as to whether it is wrong to hope he gets ill or even dies because if he does many better people than him will live.

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 1858d62 Comments

I can't see how they are asking anyone to prove a negative as you claim. If, after widely accepted evidence emerges that the disease does confer immunity on sufferers, they still insist that it doesn't then you may have a point. At the moment it is only a few hours since some hopeful reports are emerging but I am not aware of any qualified person stating categorically there is no risk of reinfection just yet.

Andy Jones ● 1823d

The WHO's statement set a high bar for proof; proving Covid19 cannot result in re-infections is like you trying to prove you have never broken the law. It would be more reasonable to provide an assessment based on the balance of probability, in which case it's clear that's it's most likely that Covid19 sufferers will not be re-infected. South Korea now thinks those testing positive after testing negative were victims of tests giving false positive results.

Vlod Barchuk ● 1823d

The WHO's statement set a high bar for proof; proving Covid19 cannot result in re-infections is like you trying to prove you have never broken the law. It would be more reasonable to provide an assessment based on the balance of probability, in which case it's clear that's it's most likely that Covid19 sufferers will not be re-infected. South Korea now thinks those testing positive after testing negative were victims of tests giving false positive results.

Vlod Barchuk ● 1823d

Not sure I understand the criticism of the WHO. Their stance on the possibility of reinfection seems totally consistent with everyone I have spoken to about the issue.Most viruses provide some level of immunity from them once you have caught them but this can be variable. There isn't sufficient research on it at the moment and it would be a disaster if health services were to operate on the basis that staff who had had it could come back to work with no risk to them or their patients and then it emerged that there was no immunity.The latest word from South Korea seems encouraging in that they are now considering cases they had considered to be reinfections as relapses. It would be fantastic news if those infected did have a high level of immunity but the WHO has not made a mistake on being cautious about this. If any mistake has been made it was by the British government in their early belief in the use of herd immunity as a tool to tackle the outbreak. Thankfully the policy was ditched before too much damage was done.

Andy Jones ● 1823d

Like a phoenix from the ashes, antiviral Remdesivir, having shown no clear benefits with severely ill Coronavirus patients, another, bigger, trial addressing a broader base of Coronavirus patients has shown a reduction in the time to recover from the Coronavirus.https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/remdesivir-trial-gives-hope-for-treatment-of-coronavirus-gd7xcgvdkRemdesivir trial gives hope for treatment of coronavirusGlobal study sees patient recovery time reducedTom Whipple, Science Editor | Rhys BlakelyThursday April 30 2020, 9.00am, The TimesA drug has been shown to treat coronavirus for the first time, cutting the number of days patients take to leave hospital by almost a third.Remdesivir, an antiviral originally designed to combat ebola, had a “clear-cut significant positive effect in diminishing time to recovery,” Anthony Fauci, a leading member of the US coronavirus task force, said.Announcing the results of the keenly awaited trial at a press conference with President Trump, Dr Fauci said that the success was “a very important proof of concept”. He added: “What it has proven is that a drug can block this virus.”The results were a surprise because the drug had appeared to fail in previous smaller studies, most notably one released last week but published in The Lancet yesterday. The new data, which was drawn from a global trial of more than 1,000 patients, including some in Britain, demonstrated an effect that was, Dr Fauci said, “very optimistic”.In the study, which was a “gold-standard” randomised controlled trial, those taking the Gilead Sciences drug recovered after 11 days, compared with 15 for those given a placebo.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1824d

If you are prepared to actually listen, and not automatically shut down 100% of everything POTUS says, this seems to give access to the interesting article via Facebook:-https://www.facebook.com/VitDSoc/posts/10157190275020658😎

Rosco White ● 1824d

For anyone who keeps an open and enquiring mind, there's an interesting article in The Australian, "From Inquirer - April 28, 2020" about sunlight and Covid (seems to be behind a Paywell). Extracts include:-"Rachel Neale did her PhD in skin cancer prevention and has done plenty of research into the dangers of sunlight...........In Neale’s review, which encompassed 78,000 participants, it was found that those with low levels of vitamin D — the “sunshine vitamin” — were almost twice as likely as those with high vitamin D levels to get the type of extreme lung infections that now are killing COVID-19 sufferers, and they were even more likely again to be sicker for longer...........Neale was speaking before US President Donald Trump weighed in with his comments last week about disinfectant and ultraviolet light being used to combat the virus. And, as bizarre as it may seem, there is reason to think the President is on to something, at least as far as the sunlight goes."Nothing particularly decisive yet, but as Trump clumsily put it, they're "looking into it."  😁https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/sunlights-role-in-containing-the-coronavirus/news-story/ea0104fac291d253e4fd6b06629ab74b

Rosco White ● 1824d

You are entitled to your personal views. I would say it is worth looking at which countries did what and when. You will find very little difference in, for example, the timescale on which western nations went into lockdown. Some before the UK by mostly 2-3 days, a few 7 days earlier and several after the UK. The media has gone into blame mode and would have you believe both our approach and timing was somehow an outlier when it was not. The interesting place to learn is Germany - if the numbers are correct, they somehow kept the infection rate and death rate much lower then all others. Testing does not prevent spreading, so am curious at the preventative measures they took that others didn’t.

James Putland ● 1824d

Vlod, it is indeed hard to know WHO to believe (no pun  intended)about re-infection or indeed face maskshttps://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-catch-twice/According to Full Fact a UK independent fact checking charity,'It's very rare to catch Covid-19 twice'Claim, Some recovered Covid-19 patients catch the disease againConclusion, There may have been some rare cases of reinfection with Covid-19, but most people seem to be immune afterwards, at least in the short termFullfact.org goes on to say, 'A few readers have asked us whether you can catch Covid-19 twice. This follows reports at the end of February that a Japanese woman had tested positive a second time.  A recent article in the Daily Mail and two articles in the Sun also suggested in their headlines and their early paragraphs that this might be the case.The evidence so far shows that catching the disease twice is very rare, and that most infected people recover and develop immunity against it. However, it is not yet clear how long this immunity will last. When a journalist raised the case of the woman in Japan at the Prime Minister’s press conference on 16 March, the Chief Scientific Advisor, Sir Patrick Vallance said: “In any infectious disease there are cases where people can catch something again. They’re rare. There’s nothing to suggest that this is a common occurrence in this disease, but we are learning as we go along.”A report from the European Centre for Disease Control and Prevention on 25 March says, “there is emerging evidence from early studies suggesting that individuals develop antibodies after infection and are likely to be immune from reinfection in the short term”. During a live question-and-answer session on 25 March, Professor Jimmy Whitworth from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine said: “There have been a few isolated examples where [reinfection] has been reported. That people were positive, then they were negative, then they were positive again. “It looks like, in the great majority of cases, this doesn’t happen. That people get infected once. My suspicion is that those discrepant test results that we get are to do with, actually, the sampling. It’s not straightforward to take a sample from the back of the throat and make sure you catch virus every time. So I suspect it’s a technical issue, rather than repeat infection… It looks like you are immune for getting it again, but for how long, we don’t know yet.”The articles in the Daily Mail and the Sun cite several reports from China, which describe a small number of recovered Covid-19 patients testing positive for the disease again. As the Mail and Sun articles say, based on local reports, the patients who tested positive twice in Wuhan showed no symptoms the second time and none apparently passed the disease to others. The same was true of a group of patients who tested positive twice in Guangdong province. The Sun quotes a doctor involved in the research saying  the results were in the “weak positive” range, suggesting that the virus may no longer have been active. He also added that there may have been problems with sampling.The Mail quotes the director of Wuhan’s Tongji Hospital, Wang Wei, saying: “It’s possible that these recovered patients tested negative before because of false results... The accuracy of a nucleic acid test is 30 to 50 per cent.”In short, these cases do not show that it is common for people to contract Covid-19 twice, as it is possible that the virus had not yet left these patients’ bodies after their first infection.By Leo Benedictus

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1825d

A pinch of salt! You've got it! The new universal cure! Better let Trump know. Much safer than his other suggestions.

Peter Evans ● 1825d

These are weasel words from the WHO. As it's nearly impossible to prove a negative, to state that 'no evidence exists that people who have recovered from the disease and developed antibodies are protected from catching it again' is virtually meaningless. Is there any evidence that you can catch Covid19 a second time?Actually there is some evidence that you can't catch Covid19 twice. Firstly, evidence from other coronaviruses would suggest you can't catch it twice. Of course, one would have no protection from any mutation of Covid19 though current evidence is that it is slow to mutate. Secondly, evidence from South Korea shows it's not yet possible to distinguish relapses from re-infections. Someone can test negative but still have low levels of Covid19, which can then flare up again; this is not the same as catching it again after the infection has completely cleared up. Thirdly, the WHO has made so many mistakes during this crisis, anything they say should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Vlod Barchuk ● 1825d

The point is that debating whether the use of the word 'bleach' matters when Trump said 'disinfectant' is an irrelevance. A subsidiary point is that ingest and inject have two completely different meanings.

Gordon Southwell ● 1826d

Not sure of your point Mr Southwell, but after over 35 years in Sales employing "effective listening" I know what Trump said in this instance, and what I saw.  I'd like to think I don't fall into any "traps" either.  😊I can give another famous example of Group Misinterpretation Where People Swear It Happened - John Bryan sucking Fergie's toes. This never happened, anyone with a pair of eyes can see he licked the sole of her foot, he never sucked her toes.  Didn't stop 95% of people believing he sucked her toes though, and arguing that IS what definitely happened. Similarly, thugs on "mopeds" are not on mopeds at all, never are, they use motorcycles and scooters.  And so it goes on.I will reiterate that I am not a Trump Defender but I know what he says and does in "my" clip. As I have asked, is there another clip where the "bleach" word is mentioned, because it isn't in my clip?I repeat, please give the timestamps in the video for when he says "bleach" and "inject yourself with disinfectant".Be fair, be cognisant, comprehend and watch closely what you are viewing, without bias.That is all, I have made my point/s.  😁

Rosco White ● 1826d

It is interesting how Trump's supporters have been so successful with the trope that the 'mainstream media' and the 'liberal elite' misrepresent what he has said that we have got to the point that they can successfully deny he said what he is on the record as saying. Rosco seems to have fallen into the trap of defending Trump from accusations that he told people to drink bleach which is the line taken by the MAGA hat wearing brigade. He didn't do this but they shouldn't be allowed to create a fog of confusion on this matter. The video is there, we have all seen it, the rebuttal Rosco is attempting to make of Andy's point actually confirms it what he said was accurate. If we start talking about semantics we are missing the glaringly obvious piece of information that the video of Trump on this issue is giving us.

Gordon Southwell ● 1826d

The following makes for interesting viewing:See Dr. Birx's reaction to Trump's dangerous suggestionhttps://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/24/birx-reaction-trump-disinfectant-vpx.cnn

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1826d

We are perhaps watching different press conference videos?In "my" video at  www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177  he doesn't mention bleach at all, so I have no idea where you get that one from? And when talking about the disinfectant "effect" he turns regularly to look at the Medical specialists repeating "You're going to test that?" for confirmation of their intended courses of investigation. At NO point whatsoever in "my" clip does he tell people to "inject disinfectant", nor even mention bleach.He is not telling people to DO anything, he is saying what they are exploring, looking into and the options they are investigating and he constantly looks to his assembled Doctors to the side for confirmation that they are going to TEST various remedies. His use of the word "disinfectant" is obviously meaning in the context of a disinfectant type "effect".All this is very clear as I say if you be fair and LISTEN and WATCH what he actually says, not what you want him to say or wish he had said.I am the last person to defend Trump who is inarticulate and far from erudite, but you have to be fair & accurate and in this instance he did not say what is being attributed to him.  Not in  www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177  anyway.Please confirm at what timing points in my clip he says the word "bleach", and/or "inject yourself with disinfectant"?And a "look on a doctor's face" can mean anything and nothing, she's probably grimacing at his mangling of the English language.  😉

Rosco White ● 1826d

Rosco, I have listened again to what Trump said. He does suggest that ingesting bleach could be a cure for coronavirus. I'm not sure what you think there is to comprehend beyond that. If the words are not clear for you, observe Dr Deborah Birx's face as he speaks and that may help.

Andy Jones ● 1827d

Unfortunately, we then have another problem with the growing legions of Anti-Vaxxers.  😨

Rosco White ● 1827d

It now appears that you can contract this evil plpague MORE than once. I feel sorry for those NHS workers and clinicians who have survived this terrible illness and are now having to go back and treat it. Especially without enough or appropriate PPE.https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/26/world/coronavirus-newsletter-04-26-20-intl/index.html(CNN)You can catch it more than once.The World Health Organization has warned against the idea that coronavirus immunity passports can provide a safe way out of lockdown.Many countries were hoping to start issuing risk-free certificates to people who have had the disease, allowing them to return to work, travel and go about their business. The plan was based on the assumption that Covid-19 survivors develop immunity.But yesterday the WHO said no evidence exists that people who have recovered from the disease and developed antibodies are protected from catching it again.The organization went further, warning that the use of immunity passports could lead to a spike in new infections. That's because people who assume they are immune are more likely to ignore public health advice.In the wake of the WHO's alert, it becomes apparent that global efforts must focus on the only other way to gain protection: a vaccine.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1827d

The moron is dangerous.
At best, his statement was ambiguous.
The New York CDC (Center for Disease Control) has already reported thirty cases of emergency contact from the families of those who have ingested bleach of other cleaning products.
Would they have done this without Trump's comments?

N V Brooks ● 1829d

I suggest reLISTENING to what he actually said:-www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177LISTEN.And comprehend.

Rosco White ● 1829d

Trump has a unique way to mangle the English language but this report of the British Army using an insect repellent to reduce the Covid19 risk suggests there maybe some method in the Donald's madness: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-uk-troops-given-insect-repellent-citriodiol-as-part-of-enhanced-protection-11978318?fbclid=IwAR0YifUnN9pIVzWEx7migpx_z7RQwKI2D2qo08UxumPLfU0ONLTkfPZmW_E

Vlod Barchuk ● 1829d

He has clearly suggested that ingesting disinfectant may help cure coronavirus. There is no possible defence for him. He doesn't have an articulation problem - he is an idiot.

Andy Jones ● 1829d

Never saw any of this before. Not on TV. Many thanks for this post.

Nicholas Beard ● 1829d

Be fair. That is not correct.I am no Trump Lover but listen to what he actually said:-www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177He clearly has an articulation problem, and is not exactly erudite, but the Press often misquote him, and often out of context.

Rosco White ● 1830d

He may be dangerous, but not as dangerous as the Coronavirus, Coronavirus detected on particles of air pollutionExclusive: Scientists examine whether this route enables infections at longer distancesDamian Carrington Environment editorhttps://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/24/coronavirus-detected-particles-air-pollutionFri 24 Apr 2020 14.29 BSTCoronavirus has been detected on particles of air pollution by scientists investigating whether this could enable it to be carried over longer distances and increase the number of people infected.The work is preliminary and it is not yet known if the virus remains viable on pollution particles and in sufficient quantity to cause disease.The Italian scientists used standard techniques to collect outdoor air pollution samples at one urban and one industrial site in Bergamo province and identified a gene highly specific to Covid-19 in multiple samples. The detection was confirmed by blind testing at an independent laboratory.Leonardo Setti at the University of Bologna in Italy, who led the work, said it was important to investigate if the virus could be carried more widely by air pollution.“I am a scientist and I am worried when I don’t know,” he said. “If we know, we can find a solution. But if we don’t know, we can only suffer the consequences.”Two other research groups have suggested air pollution particles could help coronavirus travel further in the air.A statistical analysis by Setti’s team suggests higher levels of particle pollution could explain higher rates of infection in parts of northern Italy before a lockdown was imposed, an idea supported by another preliminary analysis. The region is one of the most polluted in Europe.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1830d

The latest from the moronic orange buffoon is that we should wash with bleach and inject, yes inject, disinfectant.
God, this man is dangerous

N V Brooks ● 1830d

Remdesivir, a drug thought to be one of the best prospects for treating Covid-19, failed to have any effect in first full trialFirst trial for potential Covid-19 drug shows it has no effectWHO draft put online states remdesivir does not benefit severe coronavirus patientSarah Boseley Health editorhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/high-hopes-drug-for-covid-19-treatment-failed-in-full-trialThu 23 Apr 2020 20.35 BSTLast modified on Thu 23 Apr 2020 22.11 BSTThe antiviral medication remdesivir. The WHO said a document on the drug’s efficacy in treating the novel coronavirus still awaited peer review. Photograph: ReutersRemdesivir, a drug thought to be one of the best prospects for treating Covid-19, failed to have any effect in the first full trial, it has been revealed.The drug is in short supply globally because of the excitement it has generated. It is one of the drugs Donald Trump claimed was “promising”.In a “gold standard” trial of 237 patients, some of whom received remdesivir while others did not, the drug did not work. The trial was also stopped early because of side-effects.News of the failure was posted on a World Health Organization clinical trials database, but later removed. A WHO spokesman said it had been uploaded too soon by accident.“A draft document was provided by the authors to WHO and inadvertently posted on the website and taken down as soon as the mistake was noticed. The manuscript is undergoing peer review and we are waiting for a final version before WHO comments,” said Tarik Jasarevic, a WHO spokesperson.The drug, made by the US company Gilead Sciences, is an antiviral that was trialled in Ebola, but which failed to show benefits in Africa.In the race for drugs that might work against Covid-19, many doctors have given remdesivir to patients on “compassionate grounds” without waiting for trials. Because of the interest in it, the world’s biggest trial of possible treatments for Covid-19 at Oxford has not been able to include it, because researchers could not obtain supplies.The trial of the drug in China, on patients with severe Covid-19 symptoms, may give some doctors pause. Gilead, however, claimed there were still signs that it could be useful, possibly in patients with milder versions of disease.In the trial, 158 patients were randomly assigned to be given remdesivir, while 79 others had standard care with a placebo instead. There was no difference between the groups with respect to recovery time. Just under 14% of those on remdesivir died, compared with nearly 13% of those not taking the treatment.“In this study of hospitalised adult patients with severe Covid-19, [which] was terminated prematurely, remdesivir was not associated with clinical or virological benefits,” said the report on the WHO website.The report added: “Remdesivir was stopped early in 18 (11.6%) patients because of adverse effects, compared with 4 (5.1%) in the control group.” There were no details in the short report of the side effects that caused the trial to be halted.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1830d

Yes its wrong. Same as Boris, or Corbyn/Kier SMLove him, hate him. James O Brien - respect the person not their views

Peter Yale ● 1835d

I like the sound of Remdesivir, its sounds a lot more promising that HydroxychloroquineCORONAVIRUSCoronavirus patients given US trial drug remdesivir ‘are off ventilators in a day’Rhys Blakely, Science Correspondent | Alex Ralph, Business CorrespondentSaturday April 18 2020, 12.01am, The TimesHealthNHSUnited StatesThe drug remdesivir is being tested at 15 NHS centres and results are expected within weeksThe drug remdesivir is being tested at 15 NHS centres and results are expected within weeksULRICH PERREY/REUTERSShareSaveMore than 100 severely ill patients in NHS hospitals have been given an experimental Covid-19 treatment, a US drug company revealed yesterday, after leaked reports suggesting that it works buoyed world markets.Shares in Gilead Sciences surged in New York after footage was leaked of a scientist describing patients making rapid recoveries after being treated with its antiviral drug remdesivir.Dr Kathleen Mullane, who is overseeing a trial of the drug at the University of Chicago, said that some severely ill patients had recovered rapidly enough to be taken off ventilators within 24 hours. Most had not needed the full treatment course of ten days. Of 125 patients, only two had died.“Most of our patients are severe and most of them are leaving at six days,” she said.A spokeswoman for Gilead said yesterday that trials of remdesivir in NHS hospitals had recruited more than 100 patients. The drug is being tested at 15 NHS centres and results are expected within weeks.Shares in Gilead rallied almost 11 per cent at one stage in New York yesterday, extending gains to more than a quarter this year, and valuing the company at about $100 billion. Global equity markets also rallied on hopes that the treatment could help governments lift economic restrictions. It coincided with President Trump outlining plans to lift the lockdown in a stage process.Both scientists and financial analysts urged caution, however. It would be all but impossible to judge the efficacy of remdesivir, which was originally developed for use against ebola, until the results of full trials emerged, they said.The University of Chicago said that “drawing any conclusions at this point is premature and scientifically unsound”. Gilead said: “Anecdotal reports, while encouraging, do not provide the statistical power necessary to determine the safety and efficacy profile of remdesivir as a treatment for Covid-19.”Remdesivir is designed to interfere with some of the processes used by viruses to replicate. In theory, it could work for a broad range of viruses and trials to learn if it can be repurposed against Covid-19 have been a priority.In February Bruce Aylward, assistant director-general of the World Health Organisation, said: “There is only one drug right now that we think may have real efficacy and that’s remdesivir.”The University of Chicago had recruited 125 people with Covid-19 into Gilead’s two Phase 3 clinical trials. Of those, 113 were severely ill. All the patients were treated with remdesivir, meaning there was no placebo arm.Dr Mullane said that after starting the drug, many patients made good recoveries. According to Stat, a medical news website, she later confirmed that the leaked footage was real.PodcastStories of our timesHundreds of thousands of years ago, Homo sapiens were not alone. Tom Whipple explains how we once shared the earth with Neanderthals and even 'hobbits'. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Acast or wherever you get your podcastsListen nowShe also said that the lack of a placebo arm made it hard to interpret the efficacy of the drug. “But certainly when we start [the] drug, we see fever curves falling . . . We have seen people come off ventilators a day after starting therapy. So, in that realm, overall our patients have done very well.”Gilead’s severe Covid-19 study includes 2,400 participants from 152 clinical trial sites all over the world.Financial analysts were cautious. Royal Bank of Canada said “there are major limitations to contextualising and interpreting this data, and we see the Gilead-sponsored moderate study reading out next month as offering the best opportunity for a true efficacy read”. Remdesivir was likely to be more “impactful to Gilead’s image and . . . their strong commercial portfolio and pipeline”, than a near-term money-spinner.Jefferies, the US investment bank, said remdesivir might be “doomed to succeed” since the company “will find ways to construe it as positive”.Coughing app gathers cluesScientists at Cambridge University are building an app that asks users to cough into their smartphones to detect whether they are infected (Charlie Parker writes).The Covid-19 Sounds project is gathering recordings that could enable a machine-learning algorithm to identify the disease.Last week the team released an initial data-collecting app, which has been downloaded 5,000 times. Users are asked to breathe, cough, speak and provide details of their age, gender, location and whether they have recently tested positive. The team, who hope the full app will be ready in two months, say data will be stored but anonymised and that users will not be tracked.Professor Cecilia Mascolo, head of the Department of Computer Science and Technology, said: “It could be used as a pre-screening that would inform further testing.” She is consulting to “see what can be done” over variations in accent.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1836d

The WHO  may have faults but deserves a much bigger budget in order to manage these things in a more confident manner. Trump is just using deflection to avoid scrutiny of his own incompetence. Bill Gates warned us. we have had plenty of warnings. The local government in Wuhan tried to hide things but the national government found out and acted. Every country has problems with official denials. We need to deal with this. When governments spend energy on blame they are failing.

Peter Chadburn ● 1837d

'I don't think anyone is against the WHO, per se, I thought that was obvious.'Dennis is demanding it be defunded. I think that clearly puts him in at least the anti- camp.The Washington Post piece isn't fake news but it is a poor bit of journalism, a polemic rather than a balanced piece of analysis. The actions of the WHO in Syria and other conflict areas do warrant scrutiny but talk to any aid agency in the world and they will tell you that they often face the choice of kowtowing to an unpleasant regime or not operating in the area. The WHO were given no chance to comment for this article but I would anticipate they would tell you something along the lines of - if we annoy Assad our attempts to deliver support to the Syrian people will be blocked.I have read critical reports of the WHO from journalists who actually haven't just happened on the subject because it was being talked about on Twitter. Like all big organisations they suffer from inefficiency and group think and there is room for improvement. However, I've never read any credible report that wasn't basically saying a good job could be done better rather than the WHO having a negative impact.America wasn't actually paying its contribution to the WHO before Trump's announcement so all that his latest stunt amounts to is a confirmation they will never see the money they are owed. The outpouring of support for the organisation, including that from other governments who have said they will increase their contributions to make up for the shortfall, shows how valued it is by people familiar with the work it does.

Andy Jones ● 1837d

I have no idea if The Washington Post peddles Fake News or not, this just randomly came in on my Microsoft feed. As always, draw your own conclusions as to its veracity:-https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/in-depth/opinions-the-who-doesnt-only-have-a-china-problem-%e2%80%94-it-has-a-dictator-problem/ar-BB12Kd6G?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Rosco White ● 1837d

I don't think anyone is against the WHO, per se, I thought that was obvious.If you have read and understand the accusations it is about the dubious way the WHO has been run and the, err, "connections and influences" from China surrounding the decisions made by the WHO's Director General - Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.Of course the WHO is a badly needed Organisation, but like all Organisations if it can be influenced by one or a few nations then its value is vastly diminished.

Rosco White ● 1837d

It is China that isn't very open - just when you are getting some info do you want to get more or no more?

Philippa Bond ● 1837d

'Mr Brogan's comments about WHO are not without merit.'I can only assume you are counting comedy value as meritorious?There isn't an alternative to adopting a global approach to tackling a pandemic so the WHO has to exist in some form. It may have flaws as an organisation but even those in the medical profession who have criticisms of it would qualify anything they say by stating that it is a force for good.The WHO, and the acceptance of its role by all nations, is the reason many previously widespread and deadly diseases now only exist in laboratories. More recently it has co-ordinated efforts to reduce the spread of ebola and SARs. It is down to these efforts that this country didn't have a single fatal case of SARS. There are two reasons people might think that the WHO is not a good thing. Firstly they are a swivel-eyed loon who  believes that the WHO is part of a plot by a shadow cabal to take over the world and do something bad to us, exactly what is a bit unclear but vaccines are bad. It'll be interesting to see how many of them refuse to take the Covid-19 vaccine when it becomes available.Secondly, there would be those who think Donald Trump is a good thing and the WHO are to blame for how badly Covid-19 is hitting America. They didn't warn the Donald about how serious this was so he didn't have time to take the necessary action (hint they did and he ignored them). Then they gave really bad advice which made the lockdown in the states worse than it should have been (the Donald looks set to end lockdown as cases in the States are still rising making it inevitable that that country will have the highest level of fatalities).There will always be a certain number of people in the US and the UK who will believe obvious bollocks about the WHO, vaccines, 5G masts and they only thing we can do is make sure they don't get elected.

Andy Jones ● 1837d

To the Right of Genghis Khan?Good Bloke then, Our Dennis!!?  👍  😁

Rosco White ● 1837d

Please clarify?

Rosco White ● 1837d

Did we want China to warn us that they had an outbreak of a problematic virus or not?

Philippa Bond ● 1838d

Mr Brogan's comments about WHO are not without merit.Leaving aside his personal comments, and I won't get drawn into withdrawing funding to WHO or not, but WHO have definitely been rather "circumspect", to put it mildly, when dealing with and reporting on China and the virus.Maybe WHO are now more open but the previous conduct of WHO has been undoubtedly questionable and more of what actually went on will hopefully be uncovered.

Rosco White ● 1838d

Dennis has always been to the right of Genghis Khan.  So why is he now worried about Trump getting a landslide victory?

Philippa Bond ● 1838d

Dennis, I wouldn't describe Trica as 'thick', anyone who can put together a coherent argument using words and post it in on this Forum is defnitely not thick (or shallow) or any of the  other derogatory terms that are sometimes used on hereOther things are relative, to the average American Margaret Thatcher's policies seemed 'left-wing' especially what they see as 'socialist medicine' i.e. the N.H.S. They pay there!

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1838d

Defunding WHO is likely to cause more deaths ?? Where did this come from , and a another sweeping Leftie statement without any facts to back it . Do you not feel thick when you make a statement like this without any facts to back it . Well the WHO delayed the announcement. of this virus and changed its original name SARS 2 under pressure from China . These are facts , and nearly every important political commentator has been critical of the inefficient WHO bias towards China whose delay in announcing this virus at China’s request caused 1000s of deaths . Defund them , they should be arrested ! I have explained my position with thick people like you always avoid FACTS ! Be intelligent and back up your sweeping statements with facts then I will have no right to call you thick !

Dennis Brogan ● 1838d

Some of those I know have described me as thick from time to time but never a leftie. I guess from Dennis's perspective most people are.The latest policy move by Trump to defund the World Health Organisation is likely to add to the death toll he is personally responsible for. There are not grounds for disputing that his words and his actions will mean that hundreds if not thousands of people will lose their lives who would otherwise have survived. For the non-thick, non-posh non-lefties among us would it have been a good thing if Stalin or Pol Pot had been killed before they had a chance to commit genocide? If so why is Trump any different other than in the numbers of people for whose deaths he is responsible?

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 1839d

People like Tricia , Lily Allen , Eddie Izzard Gained Brexit supporters , and their Leftie equivalents in USA will ensure Trump also gets a landslide . When will these thick lefties try and have an intelligent debate , rather than wanting Trump killed , calling Brexiteers racist . Every Leftie I meet are factually clueless, and have nothing to back up their rubbish . They are so right on and anyone who disagrees is a nazi racist . Well thick Tricia thanks for helping the right wing and soon Trump to have landslide victories because of thick lefties like you ! Thank you ha ha keep it up thick I !

Dennis Brogan ● 1840d

Nicholas, it would appear that there is a government-backed study into the rapid production of a vaccine, and that we have a vaccine-development programme out of Oxford University run by Professor Sarah Gilbert who thinks that there is an 80 percent chance that it will work, however, even if she gets a working vaccine in September she says that there is no way that they will be able to manufacture enough to innoculate the whole population by the end of the year, one can but hope that she will be successful and that the Government will come up with a ventilator-manufacturing-competition-like scheme to provide manufacturing capacity. She said it would cost £100 million to do the whole thing. The Government seems interested. Who knowa perhaps the whole of Porton Down could be repurposed?Various learned comment on this project can be found on:https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-times-interview-about-vaccines-with-prof-sarah-gilbert/and an artcle on her workhttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-vaccine-could-be-ready-by-september-flmwl257x

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1842d

I wonder what Germany and France are doing with this. I know France have huge studies on this.

Nicholas Beard ● 1842d

The vacine is the answer. But sadly we will be after the USA and EU for supplies and pay more as we have left the EMA.

Nicholas Beard ● 1842d

A slight correction, the Oxford University 'Recovery Trial' involves three treatments including hydroxychloroquine and not three treatments and hydroxychloroquine as I wrongly said previously.The following three pieces are worth reading, the third Daily Mail piece puts the 'Trump study' in perspective,  Thursday, April 9, 2020NIH clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine, a potential therapy for COVID-19, beginshttps://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine-potential-therapy-covid-19-beginsOxford recruits 2,700 virus patients for fast-growing drugs trial‘Recovery’ will evaluate existing medicines that might be effective against Covid-19Clive Cookson, Financial Times, Friday 10th April 2020 https://www.ft.com/content/f4e3055e-72e2-459d-ba66-05af7d2c8915Publisher of hydroxychloroquine research touted by Trump as a 'game changer' says the paper 'did not meet its standards' because it EXCLUDED data on patients who did not respond well to the treatmentDaily Mail, Friday 10th Aprilhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8205773/Publisher-hydroxychloroquine-study-hailed-Trump-said-complete-failure.htmlIN SOME MORE DETAIL Oxford recruits 2,700 virus patients for fast-growing drugs trial Oxford recruits 2,700 virus patients for fast-growing drugs trial‘Recovery’ will evaluate existing medicines that might be effective against Covid-19‘Recovery’ will evaluate existing medicines that might be effective against Covid-19The ‘Recovery’ trial is evaluating existing medicines that might be effective against coronavirus‘Recovery’ is the largest of many Covid-19 trials under way around the world © Cyril Marcilhacy/BloombergThe fastest-growing clinical trial in medical history has enrolled more than 2,700 Covid-19 patients in UK hospitals to test potential treatments for coronavirus disease — and thousands more are likely to join over the next few weeks.Peter Horby, professor of infectious diseases at the University of Oxford, who is leading the project, said no controlled clinical trial — in which people are assigned at random to receive different drugs and the results compared — had ever expanded so quickly and on such a large scale.“We need to recruit very fast while the epidemic is approaching its peak, so that we have enough patients to provide firm data,” he said. The trial is called Recovery, a somewhat tortured acronym for randomised evaluation of Covid-19 therapy. Prof Horby was involved in clinical trials carried out during the early weeks of the coronavirus epidemic in China. These generally ended up with too few subjects to provide firm evidence, he said, because the Chinese government’s clampdown on Covid-19 reduced transmission of the virus very quickly.Scientists have not had nearly enough time to develop new treatments specifically for Covid-19, so Recovery is evaluating existing medicines that might be effective against coronavirus.Professor Peter Horby said no controlled clinical trial had expanded so quickly and on such a large scale © Fisher StudiosThe trial started by examining three treatments recommended by an expert panel advising the chief medical officer. They are: the lopinavir-ritonavir combination used to treat HIV; dexamethasone, a steroid that reduces inflammation; and hydroxychloroquine, the malaria medicine.Patients arriving at 130 NHS hospitals across the UK with confirmed Covid-19 are invited to take part. They are allocated randomly to four groups. Three are given one of the trial treatments and the fourth — the control group — just receives standard medical care.“We can add further medicines to the trial within days,” said Prof Horby. “This week we are adding azithromycin, an antibiotic with anti-inflammatory properties.”Thursday, April 9, 2020NIH clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine, a potential therapy for COVID-19, beginsNovel Coronavirus SARS-CoV-2Colorized scanning electron micrograph of an apoptotic cell (green) heavily infected with SARS-COV-2 virus particles (purple), isolated from a patient sample. Image captured and color-enhanced at the NIAID Integrated Research Facility (IRF) in Fort Detrick, Maryland.NIAIDA clinical trial to evaluate the safety and effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of adults hospitalized with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has begun, with the first participants now enrolled in Tennessee.The Outcomes Related to COVID-19 treated with hydroxychloroquine among In-patients with symptomatic Disease study, or ORCHID Study, is being conducted by the Prevention and Early Treatment of Acute Lung Injury (PETAL) Clinical Trials Network of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI), part of the National Institutes of Health.The first participants have enrolled in the trial at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, Nashville, one of dozens of centers in the PETAL Network. The blinded, placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial aims to enroll more than 500 adults who are currently hospitalized with COVID-19 or in an emergency department with anticipated hospitalization. All participants in the study will continue to receive clinical care as indicated for their condition.  Those randomized to the experimental intervention will also receive hydroxychloroquine.“Effective therapies for COVID-19 are urgently needed,” said James P. Kiley, director, Division of Lung Diseases, NHLBI.  “Hydroxychloroquine has showed promise in a lab setting against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 and preliminary reports suggest potential efficacy in small studies with patients. However, we really need clinical trial data to determine whether hydroxychloroquine is effective and safe in treating COVID-19.”Daily Mail, 10th AprilPublisher of hydroxychloroquine research touted by Trump as a 'game changer' says the paper 'did not meet its standards' because it EXCLUDED data on patients who did not respond well to the treatmentA small-scale French study said it found that hydroxychloroquine could reduce the duration of coronavirus in patientsPresident Trump has hailed the drug - in combination with azithromycin, an antibiotic - a game changer in treatmentThe medical society that published the research now says it 'does not meet the Society's expected standard'Researchers did not include data about six of the 26 patients that 'left' the study and did not explain what 'virologically cured' meant By Mary Kekatos Senior Health Reporter For Dailymail.comPublished: 21:52, 9 April 2020 | Updated: 07:20, 10 April 2020The publisher of the French study that found hydroxychloroquine could help treat coronavirus patients is now saying the paper 'did not meet its standards.'President Donald Trump has hailed the research in tweets and during his daily press conferences as a 'game changer.'But in a statement published online, the International Society of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy (ISAC) addressed several new concerns with the research.Officials say they found out the researchers excluded data on patients who didn't respond well to the treatment and that they did not clarify what they meant when they said patients were 'virologically cured.' A small-scale French study said it found that hydroxychloroquine (file image) could reduce the duration of coronavirus in patientsPresident Donald Trump has hailed the drug - in combination with azithromycin, an antibiotic - a game changer in treatment.President Donald Trump has hailed the drug - in combination with azithromycin, an antibiotic - a game changer in treatment. Pictured:  Trump speaks about the coronavirus at the White House, April 8The medical society that published the study now says it 'does not meet the Society's expected standard'  because researchers did not include data about six of the 26 patients that 'left' the study and did explain what 'virologically cured' meant. The medical society that published the study now says it 'does not meet the Society's expected standard'  because researchers did not include data about six of the 26 patients that 'left' the study and did explain what 'virologically cured' meant. The study was first published online in ISAC's journal, the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, on March 20.Researchers from the Méditerrannée Infection University Hospital Institute in Marseille, France, had 20 patients take hydroxychloroquine in combination with azithromycin, an antibiotic.  They found the the combination was linked to 'viral load reduction/disappearance in COVID-19 patients.' The team began with 26 patients but  six were 'lost in follow up during the survey because of early cessation of treatment,' according to the study. Three of the six ended up in the intensive care unit, a fourth patient died, one stopped treatment after experiencing nausea and the last ended up not having the virus. In the US, there are more than 435,000 confirmed cases of the virus and more than 14,000 deathsIn the US, there are more than 435,000 confirmed cases of the virus and more than 14,000 deaths'Although ISAC recognises it is important to help the scientific community by publishing new data fast, this cannot be at the cost of reducing scientific scrutiny and best practices,' Andreas Voss, the president of the society, wrote in a statement.He then made note that one of the study's authors, Jean-Marc Rolain, is editor-in-chief of the journal in which it was published. 'Despite some suggestions online as to the reliability of the article's peer review process, the process did adhere to the industry's peer review rules,' Voss wrote.  'Given his role as Editor in Chief of this journal, Jean-Marc Rolain had no involvement in the peer review of the manuscript and has no access to information regarding its peer review.'Voss did not immediately reply to DailyMail.com's request for comment.Arthur Caplan, a bioethics professor in the department of population health at NYU School of Medicine, called the study 'pathetic' especially because the results of the six patients that were dropped [were not factored into the study's final conclusions.]'I think [the research is] based on a pathetic study that lost six of the 26 patients,' Caplan told DailyMail.com.'It hid data. It got retracted because it was a farce.'

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1842d

Vlod, I noted that there are intense on-going clinical trials here in this country of this drug and three other treatments. Hopefully we will soon have a more believable assessment of its efficaciousness than the verbal "straw poll" of doctors.After the scandal of the "pin prick" instant SARS-CoV-2 tests turning out to be at best 30 percent accurate (if accurate is the right word to use here) we could do with better info

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1843d

People have not overdosed from using hydroxyclhoroquine; there are only 7 cases report in English medical literature  (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11555803). You may be thinking of the case of someone who drank fish tank cleaner which contained it. There is evidence it may treat or even prevent Covid19 symptoms, though this evidence is not conclusive and doesn't reach the standard required for it be approved for normal medical use. The US Food and Drug Administration has allowed its use for hospitalised Covid19 sufferers and medical staff who wish to use it as a prophylactic.

Vlod Barchuk ● 1843d

Tricia, have you noted that anyone who comes in contact with Trump has to have a fifteen minute quick Covid-19 test? No wonder he is brazen about "masks are not for me", I wonder how many tests that is each week that could be better used elsewhere, hundreds?

Mark Julian Raymond ● 1845d

Some people have overdosed and died wit it and in India people with other conditions can't get hold of it. So another bit of Trumpism

Peter Chadburn ● 1845d

To be fair to the man he has been suggesting a malaria remedy which, although there is no evidence it does any good, is available patent free so no particular company benefits from its use.

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 1845d

...More like some supposed remedy that he himself has shares in and would like to sell to everyone else...

Philippa Bond ● 1846d

Well, perhaps now Mr Johnson will understand why he should have brought proper measures in earlier rather than rely on the silly herd immunity idea put forward by Dominic Cummings. A lot of people are suffering now because of that, not all getting the care they need.Don’t forget Mr Johnson, during the election campaign in December, put a reporter’s phone in his pocket when asked to look at a picture of a young boy suffering from pneumonia forced to sleep on a pole of coats. Where was his compassion that day? He only changed his tune when he realised how bad it looked being filmed doing that. Hence I find it hard to enthuse about the general PM love fest currently underway.Stay safe, and save the NHS!

Simon Hayes ● 1847d

Hi Simon, It is quite UNDERSTANDABLE that you say you have "No Sympathy" for the Man. However it would be better not to say that now. CoronaVirus is a greater enemy to the living world now , only because this is an "INVISABLE ENEMY" so let us first identify the enemy and then act with all we have to clear this from our midst. I know you never meant to upset anyone and like me and many others wonder whats best to be done.Stay safe dear friend.

Oswald Whittle ● 1847d

He has probably got it but no doubt is taking some snake oil remedy that his chums in big pharma will sell for $5,000 a dose

Peter Chadburn ● 1858d

I suppose the answer is, how would you feel if you heard Trump wishing the disease on someone that he disliked?Sauce for the goose.

Nick Goodliffe ● 1858d

This is the Trolley Problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problemTrump will see America burn rather than admit that he's ever been wrong about anything.

Susan Kelly ● 1858d

Is it really that clear cut? Trumps endurance probably condemns many more people to death therefore if you wish him long life you are effectively condoning the end of that of others. Its and old an very complex dilemma but overall I think it is dangerous to wish people dead based on hypotheticals.

Gordon Southwell ● 1858d

The highest number of cases are in Indonesia where their moron of a President has admitted to suppressing data. Potentially 700,000 already infected and YES it is wrong to wish ill-health on anyone no matter how odious.

N V Brooks ● 1858d

A lot of people in the UK will die because Boris Johnson and his pals didn’t take notice of what was coming. Blood on his hands if you lose a loved one through this.Where was the quarantine of passengers coming from areas known to be hotspots for the virus? Where was the stockpiling of kit for medical staff? Where was the acquisition of testing kits? All this could have been done weeks ago.Instead they thought we should go for herd immunity, even though it will cost far more lives. Who’s to say Johnson won’t lose loved ones because of this policy. I have no sympathy for the man.And UK figures are far higher than those officially given. The lack of testing means nobody other than those in hospital (plus celebrities, royals and politicians) know whether they’ve had it or not.

Simon Hayes ● 1858d