Forum Topic

Is It Morally Right to Go to the Pub?

I have to confess to nipping out last night for a very quick pint after work. The pub I was in wasn't busy but was far from empty. I took care to socially distance myself but on reflection I'm not entirely sure I was being responsible.On the one had I understand that ignoring the government's advice could contribute to a spread of the disease but on the other they do seem to have put all the financial burden of tackling this problem on pubs and restaurants. If it was really that bad, why not require them to close so they can claim on their insurance for an interruption of business. When all this is over many of these businesses will not be around so is giving them a bit of carefully considered support at the moment a bad thing?

Andy Jones ● 2147d18 Comments

In the Metro:London hospital declares critical incident after running out of intensive care bedsauthorFaye BrownFriday 20 Mar 2020 3:31 pm A major London hospital has declared a ‘critical incident’ after running out of ICU beds due to a surge in coronavirus cases. The situation has been described as ‘f***ing petrifying’ by a senior hospital director in the capital, where the scale of the disease is weeks ahead of the rest of the country. In a message to staff, Northwick Park Hospital in Harrow said it has no critical care capacity left and has contacted neighbouring hospitals about transferring patients who need critical care to other sites. The message, seen by the Health Service Journal (HSJ), said: ‘I am writing to let you know that we have this evening declared a ‘critical incident’ in relation to our critical care capacity at Northwick Park Hospital. This is due to an increasing number of patients with Covid-19. Top articles 1/5 READ MORE £6 coronavirus test claims to be 98% accurate but government isn’t convinced General view of Northwick Park Hospital as staff in England and Northern Ireland to go on strike, Northwick Park Hospital, Harrow, Middlesex. Six people have died of coronavirus at Northwick Park Hospital (Picture: PA) ‘This means that we currently do not have enough space for patients requiring critical care. ‘As part of our system resilience plans, we have contacted our partners in the North West London sector this evening to assist with the safe transfer of patients off of the Northwick Park site.’Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/20/london-hospital-declares-critical-incident-running-intensive-care-beds-12431589/?ito=cbshare

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2145d

Bearing in mind that Northwick Park Hospital has just been stood down from a 24-hour critical incident due to being overwhelmed by Covid-19 patients I think it would be basically be mad to go out to the pub (restaurant or ANYWHERE with many people) tonight for so many reasons.GET REALThe Guardian,https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/mar/20/uk-coronavirus-live-confusion-over-key-workers-list-as-schools-close?page=with:block-5e74b8828f08bbd83c9f5a6b#liveblog-navigation"17:02A “critical incident” that had been declared at Northwick Park hospital following a surge in coronavirus patients has been stood down after lasting for 24 hours, the hospital confirmed."

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2145d

Too late, Boris says "We are telling cafes, pubs, bars and restaurants to close tonight as soon as they reasonably can and not reopen tomorrow."

Fred Hunt ● 2145d

All this discussion is making me feel like having a pint. Any suggestions?

Simon Hayes ● 2145d

The trouble is to be honest, Government telling the Pubs, Clubs etc to stay open and telling the people to stay out of them is not even a coherent policy or strategy.More a Monty Python approach.I've simply stopped going as I don't want to spread it at all.Likewise I don't want to use Public Transport either as this will put me at risk.

Leslie Bailey ● 2145d

Why not estimate how much you would have spent, put that amount of cash in an envelope and post it through the door on your way past? Round it up if you can.Bingo: you've supported local business, maintained your social distancing, and avoided any rumoured or actual effect the alcohol might have had on your susceptibility to catching something. The only downside? You haven't actually got anything for your money but you've offset this with a sense of community and well-being.You should probably write on the envelope for the recipient not to handle or open until absolutely necessary as cash can be a transmission chain for germs. That risk passes with time. And don't lick the envelope :-)Alternatively, see if they sell gift vouchers which you can spend there in future?

Andy Hamm ● 2146d

If they don't want people eating out or going to pubs or clubs they should order them to close, like other countries have done. If they want to 'support business' they should give them enough money to carry on, like other countries have done, and not make vague promises about 'guarantee packages'. If they want to support workers they should give them real money and not make vague promises about changes to the benefit system. So far, most government announcements raise more questions than they answer.

Peter Evans ● 2147d

Seems to me the Government is keeping an eye on and attempting at controlling infection rates as best/if they can.Expect restrictions on movement, gatherings etc to wax and wane as infection rates fluctuate.

Rosco White ● 2147d

The issue may seem clear cut if the pub doesn't form an important part of your social life or you have been banned from most of the ones in Ealing.The question remains if the government had good evidence that pubs were a key source of the dissemination of the disease why not mandatorily close them? The current policy means that pubs are asking their customers to keep coming so that their business can survive. There are other points of contact which are much more likely to be pools of infection particularly supermarkets which the government are ignoring.

Andy Jones ● 2147d

Well who would want to frequent such places;  Coronavirus or no coronavirus?

Philip Coe ● 2147d

I'm told drinking alcohol reduces your immunity.  That should be enough of a disincentive.

Philippa Bond ● 2147d

A long flat curve that suddenly jumps from 21 confirmed case to 42 confirmed cases in Ealing implies that something is not right it is not wise to hang out in a cramped dirty establishment with the decreasing social distance that alcohol makes us do as we get closer together to a bunch of bar flies that make their way around Ealing from bar to bar, what better mechanism for spreading a virus. And then you take whatever you may hace caught to you nearest and dearest, wisdon suggests to me staying out of situation that might expose you to this dreadful illness

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2147d

It leads to the question though why has the Government only "asked us" not to go to the pubs and not issued a an edict from them to close?Presumably a distinction in need and risk has been assessed and a different public response is expected?And I have no idea what the answer is.

Philip Coe ● 2147d

No, it is not morally right to go to the pub when the Government has asked us not to in the middle of an emergency

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2147d

If I was a 20 something with reasonably big disposable income I’d probably go to the pub. Might be preferable to being cooped up in a house share, and when you are young you tend to feel indestructible, especially if you are told this virus won’t really affect you.If the government was really serious about limiting the spread of the virus it would have imposed restrictions such as those in other European countries. It hasn’t, nor did it impose monitoring at airports for flights coming from known infected regions (so much for taking back control of our borders). I know of people who came straight off flights at Heathrow and onto the Tube despite the high probability they were carrying the virus.Boris Johnson is taking a big gamble to assume his approach will outsmart this disease. Nature has a horrible way of getting the upper hand.

Simon Hayes ● 2147d

It depends on your business continuity policy so it is hard to generalise.

N V Brooks ● 2147d

I've heard that insurance policies all have exclusions for this kind of thing.

Susan Kelly ● 2147d

I am still supporting local businesses and, in particular, restaurants as I want them to still be around after this all passes.
Rishi Sunak claimed yesterday that the statements made by government would enable businesses to claim on their disruption insurance and, if they did not have such cover, smaller businesses would be able to claim a £10,000 grant from next Monday.

N V Brooks ● 2147d