Forum Topic

Reduced bin collections?

Please see: https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/fears-reduced-bin-collections-ealing-16302526Apparently, Brexit is a factor - you couldn't make it up.We should remember which 'colour' of council let the contract to Amey in the first place. Doubtless Sabiers and Co. will claim this as a 'Great day for Ealing' as the service, which has seen approval ratings plummet despite the spin from Bell on the resident's survey result, is taken back in-house.About as much a 'great day' as Borodino was for Napoleon Bonaparte!

N V Brooks ● 2450d63 Comments

I AM British and I speak English.  Do you still want the last word? :)

Philippa Bond ● 2432d

" 'safeguarding'  or 'residual'.  They are both pretty self-explanatory."No they're not self explanatory, they are unnecessarily unusual, and most on here struggle with the context of your use.But by all means go ahead and continue to use, if you want readers to switch off from your postings.  ;-)

Rosco White ● 2432d

Lol.  I don't have to agree with anybody!You don't HAVE to put your bin out for every collection.  Currently if you miss one - accidentally or otherwise - you will be on a four weekly collection.  It is a good exercise to see if you can reduce your waste so that you can easily deal with that.  You can always ask a neighbour to put your bin put if you are going away on holiday and return the favour for them sometime.It would be good to have a better and easier changing of bin sizes to suit the space available in smaller properties and the circumstances. The Council would have gained more credibility if this rollout had been more resident friendly.There's nothing wrong with 'safeguarding'  or 'residual'.  They are both pretty self-explanatory.  They are both in the dictionary and I don't think that dumbing down is very constructive.'Residual' I particularly like because it is what is left after you have separated out the majority.  The majority of our household waste unless you have quintuplets wearing disposable nappies can be recycled in the Council's kerbside collection.  You can recycle more elsewhere and Reduction, Reuse, Repair and Repurpose are even better.  We seem to be rapidly losing many important skills -  including thinking!

Philippa Bond ● 2433d

Plain English Campaign here.Can we use simple, standard wordings which normal people understand please, instead of "safeguarding", "residual collections", etc, etc.This is the UK, not Corporate America.I thank you.    ;-)

Rosco White ● 2434d

I would make time to read the local press reports. They quote their sources and, in both of the journals I mentioned, they are thankfully devoid of poorly researched locals 'knee-jerking' without doing any research.I am glad we agree that reducing residual collections is a poor idea.

N V Brooks ● 2434d

When I have time I'll look up your alternative newspaper accounts but local ones are usually full of residents trying to make a name for themselves.  I don't think it is a good idea reducing residual waste collections too much because whereas if you miss a recycling one you can generally either wait until the next with no problem or find an alternative recycling bank - at a supermarket or on the street.  With residual your alternative is more limited.

Philippa Bond ● 2434d

Same here.Save that the only thing we don't cook 'from scratch' is Thai sticky rice. Try and try as I might I either end up with 'gloop' or something where I could 'cut out the middle man' and put straight into the food recycling.Waitrose the the rescue on this one and the little pots make handy containers for touch up paints.

N V Brooks ● 2434d

No Philippa I made it all up - for pity's sake!I last saw a Daily Mail in the 1980's.Look at the Wales Daily Post and the North Wales Pioneer (both good local papers) to see the extent of the problem caused by monthly black bag collections.Conwy council are 'in denial'.Try to get ONE rebuttal correct and I'll will not treat your posts with such disdain.

N V Brooks ● 2434d

I am a massive recycler. I have a standard blue bin and the baby grey/black bin. I even take my energy saving bulbs/tubes and water filters to Robert Dyas for recycling. I am also a cook from scratch person and I don't waste food. Unfortunately, my peers and the younger generation don’t get taught ‘home economics’ or indeed don’t develop a passion for good food.

Joanna Dabrowska ● 2434d

I don't think you are right about the fly-tipping in Conwy or you are getting your info from the Daily Mail or some such paper.  Conwy were doing trials long before May.  Scotland have Councils that have been on less than fortnightly collections for absolutely ages too.  I think Fife was first.  Scotland always seems to be ahead of England.  There are loads of Councils with residual waste less often than fortnightly.  The problem has always been for those with families where disposable nappies form part of their waste.  In Conwy they have addressed this with special collections.  Wales has been at the top of the recycling tables for ages too.Some Councils encourage parents to purchase reduced price or free  reusable nappies for their babies.  These are not the same as the old terry nappies of my childhood and many parents use a mix of reusable and disposable depending on the situation.  It is interesting that nurseries and schools now complain that so many children are arriving still not potty trained.  Working parents have less time and disposables are now obviously far too comfortable!  So disposables are now being worn for more years and are costing more in waste disposal and in cost to the parents. There are also reusable versions for adults as well as reusable mats rather than disposable ones.If LBE is thinking of reducing their collections they will need to seriously update their truly chronic website and information.  They can't even put up an updated info paragraph for the bank holiday collections.  We need to know whatever is up is current and people are moving in and out of boroughs continuously and need to be able to check. There are serious problems with the measuring systems and requirements for recycling and if anyone wants to increase their recycling amounts they will make garden waste free.  This should also encourage people to garden and discourage them from concreting their gardens which is not a good idea with the increase in flash flooding due to heavier sudden rainfall.  It is also a shame that Ealing in Bloom is no longer encouraging residents to garden.  Many Councils charge for garden waste because they do not have to do this as part of Council Tax and the Consultants they used suggested that this was a good way to raise funds.  In fact it just changes people's habits.  I remember long discussions in Which? years ago.The biggest problem is the lack of good info and lack of attention to those who are not making any effort.  Changes to business waste will probably and hopefully stop a lot of the fly-tipping which emanates from small businesses.  Govt is too slow in dealing with deposit returns for bottles and a higher and more consistent collection for recycling across the country.

Philippa Bond ● 2434d

Conwy has moved to a four weekly 'black bag' collection, that is correct (I posted this on 22 May!).As a result fly-tipping has gone 'through the roof' - see local websites for the results of this 'money saving move'.That said, they still have weekly recycling collections and FREE fortnightly garden waste collection.

N V Brooks ● 2435d

Conwy has a four weekly residual waste collection.  If you don't already you should make the most of our very comprehensive recycling system in Ealing.  Separating out the food waste makes a lot of difference.  There is a good new piece on www.lovefoodhatewasre.com called something like compleat eating.  How to waste even less.  We need to learn to embrace those broccoli stalks!  Those were the chef's treat... :(

Philippa Bond ● 2435d

NJ and NYC with many a high rise (similar to ManhActon) have their bin collections on a daily basis. My best friend lives there and I was woken up early every day and I was pleasantly surprised to see the daily, albeit early morning, service.

Joanna Dabrowska ● 2436d

Yes, it will be an "Honour" system, and everyone will abide by it, and it will be good, and peace will prevail in the land, and all will be well.(The Gospel according to Labour):-)))))))))

Rosco White ● 2437d

No doubt the wise men in the Labour cabinet will dictate a policy whereby residents are required to run down the stairs from whatever floor on which they live to deposit their waste in the appropriate receptacle. All part of that ‘healthy lives’ mantra.

Simon Hayes ● 2437d

I don't use teabags as the majority are simply neither 100% recyclable nor biodegradable.You should split the bags and put the contents on your compost, recycling the rinsed 'wrapper'.Or simply buy loose leaf tea and enjoy a proper cuppa.Banana skins make great shoe buffers and can also be used as aphid traps before you compost or recycle them.

N V Brooks ● 2438d

Well unless the wheelie bin is okayed by the Council then it is just as I said - people do their own thing and then wonder why all of a sudden their waste is not collected.  I think the problem with the wheelie bins is their height and the fact that people put heavy stuff in there - much heavier than they would in an ordinary dustbin and bags have to be raised higher to get them out. Personally I've used an ordinary metal dustbin for years.  It isn't tapered at the bottom so stands up better.  It is tied to a wall and the lid is tied to it so it can't go far.  When a bag is full (every several months) then I put the bag out on top of the lid for collection.  We can put so much in our recycling green box that there is no need for a weekly collection.  It would be an unsupportable waste of money.We also put out one caddy of food waste each week or fortnight - mostly tea bags and banana skins.  Both of which we tend to be too lazy to compost although some goes into a wormery when I feel that they need feeding.  I had the wormery before the food waste collection started.  We don't need the amount of space in the big FWB but because we are required to use empty the caddyful into that for collection.Hillingdon are likely to have a bigger garden waste collection because I'm sure that this went down in Ealing as soon as it was announced that it would be charged for.  And of course composting went down and the recycling rate went up as soon as the free reusable bags were introduced.

Philippa Bond ● 2438d

On the topic of bins . . . . with all the high-rise monstrosities being thrown up everywhere in Ealing, the mind boggles as to how waste/recycling management of the flats in the blocks will be handled.  One gets the feeling that Ealing is, er, finished, really.

Tony Heath ● 2438d

Irrespective of this, they WILL collect from wheeled bins as they do this for friends in Ruislip and Northwood who both have 'narrow wheelie' bins.Overarchingly, they still collect weekly. Recycling, 'black sack' rubbish, food recycling and garden waste at a lower cost to residents than Ealing.They must be doing something right, or, more likely, Ealing has got it wrong again.

N V Brooks ● 2438d

When Ealing rubbish collections are brought back 'in house' there might be better communications between various council departments to help sort out these issues. You'd think a disproportionate amount of rubbish outside a property would soon alert the authorities to the living conditions inside it.

Peter Evans ● 2438d

https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/collectioninstructions"We do not supply any type of waste container to our residents. To avoid household rubbish bags being split open by foxes, birds and other animals we strongly recommend the use of regular domestic dustbins (not wheeled bins) to safely contain or present your black bags for collection."

Philippa Bond ● 2438d

There has to be, by law, a register of HMOs.However, one only has to look at aerial photos of certain parts of our borough to see the proliferation of 'beds in sheds' (supposedly 'innocent' outbuildings) where people live in squalor at the expense of exploiting landlords. Ealing are lax in enforcement of this scandal.It would take a joint exercise by Ealing and other enforcement agencies to resolve this.the poor exploited tenants rubbish has to go somewhere and one only has to look at the filth laden streets of some parts of our borough to see where the problems are.

N V Brooks ● 2438d

I agree the problem is people not taking care.  LBE thought in its wisdom that instead of dealing with those few properties that were a problem - that we should all have them and gave the job to the contractor so as to deflect any criticism and so the contractor issued enormous bins to everyone - except quite a few people didn't seem to have any.  I wonder how many buildings had been divided that LBE had no idea about? Everybody seemed to be swapping bins for weeks.  It would have been obvious and everyone in the street would have known which properties were a problem - one bag of waste can be spread along a whole street quite quickly if left out early and unsafeguarded.  It was also amazing the number of ordinary dustbins that appeared at the collection point after the changeover proving that most residents were safeguarding their waste before collection and before issue of the wheelie bins.  We are such suckers for a free gift even if it is nose high and ugly and smelly. It was often the houses in multiple occupation - sometimes not registered as such and definitely not managed.  Does LBE now have a list of these so that residents can check whether particular addresses are registered?  Other boroughs have open lists that their residents can check. I have always campaigned against wheelie bins in particular in the smaller properties where they are a fire and security hazard pushed up against the windows and in front of doors - and also balanced dangerously at the top of steps. They also ruin/obliterate small gardens and encourage the concreting over of these when this is not a good idea.  They are also difficult to use in these conditions as both have to be taken out in order to have the correct one out each week.  Many residents unfortunately were/are afraid to speak up and ask for a smaller bin.  They did have smaller wheelie bins available but denied the fact at Perceval House.  We could see them in some gardens!I always thought that LBE were appeasing/currying favour with their landlords who weren't and should have been providing bins for their tenants - inside and outside their properties.

Philippa Bond ● 2438d

Wheelie bins might be a good defence against foxes and cats, but they are a hideous visual blight in the borough.  Mind you, so are ripped black bags with their contents strewn all over the roads.  As ever, the problem is not foxes and cats, the problem is 'people'.

Tony Heath ● 2439d

So, wheelie bins are NOT a good idea, is that what you are now saying?Back to Hillingdon for a moment, their website is clear that they will empty black bags from your own container and that includes wheelie bins.

N V Brooks ● 2439d

Wheelie bins can increase the production and volume of waste rather than discouraging it.  Households where disposable nappies are being used tend to have the largest volume of unrecyclable waste.  The Food Waste Bins are collected weekly everywhere I've seen and been.  Using this  makes a big difference to what is left - less smelly, easier to deal with and less attractive to foxes, magpies, rats, cats, crows etc.  You can also teach yourself how to waste less food and save money.  Very useful when there is such a high call on foodbanks.  Unfortunately FWB's aren't always available to flats although work is being done on this.

Philippa Bond ● 2439d

I'm sorry Nigel but what are you on about with your political presumptions?Hillingdon btw say NOT Wheelie Bins.  Operatives are sometimes ignorant of this or tolerant of this and residents can be ignorant or pushy and take a chance instead of checking.  Different systems require different vehicles.  Councils can choose how they collect your household waste, from what and how etc.  There are also various things that they don't have to collect.Residents can then be taken aback when the crew changes and/or they tighten up and their bin is left unemptied.

Philippa Bond ● 2439d

Another attempt to promote your 'socialist' ideals and prove 'inequality' where none exists?No, Hillingdon actually state this on their website.A flexible approach rather the underperforming totalitarian hell locally.

N V Brooks ● 2439d

More likely that the operatives are untrained and someone with a wheelie bin is chancing the system.

Philippa Bond ● 2439d

No, just weekly collections.If you have your own wheelie bin they will, however, empty it.What a nasty Tory borough, actually delivering the services that people want eh?

N V Brooks ● 2439d

Hillingdon don't have wheelie bins do they?

Philippa Bond ● 2439d

Only capitalised because this forum neither allow bold nor underlined type.Sorry, but getting a little fed-up with the blinkered defence, by some, of the current Town Hall administration based on political persuasion rather than by any objective measure of their performance.I suppose that FACT could be Fair, Accurate, Checkable and True.

N V Brooks ● 2448d

As "FACT" is in capital letters I am assuming it is an acronym but struggling to solve it.

Philip Coe ● 2448d

Extending the (good natured) reasoning . . . A fact, by definition, is a fact. FACT.(I'll get my coat.)

Tony Heath ● 2448d

For reasons well stated elsewhere. Reduced collection frequency results in more fly tipping.This has been well documented in areas like Conwy which moved to four-weekly collections and has also engaged the Woodland Trust to comment.Cllr Dabrowska, possibly without knowledge of this empiric evidence, is therefore absolutely correct.

N V Brooks ● 2448d

"This could include reducing the frequency of bin collections, Councillor Dabrowska warned."Warned? I could easily live with the landfill collected every four weeks, and this would mean it costs less to collect the landfill.That's good thing, not something to warn about!

Paul James ● 2448d

That, with respect, is why a quoted sources for the FACTS I posted. If you wish to dispute the figures for recycling clearly stated by the London Waste and Recycling Board I am sure they would be delighted to hear from you.It is axiomatic that we actually do start with a level playing field if you are comparing non-delivery of services.All other FACTS are instantly verifiable by looking at the LB Hillingdon website and the street posters throughout the borough. They are justifiably proud of their services to their residents.So, one last time and I will keep it simple.If Hillingdon can deliver these services, why can't Ealing?

N V Brooks ● 2448d

By telling us something is a fact doesn't mean it is a fact.To compare we would need to start with a level playing field and I'mnot sure we are.There is something odd about your placing of Hillingdon above Ealing in the league tables for recycling because last time I looked Ealing was 100 places higher.  Not that I believe too much in them anyway.  My personal aim has always been to make as little waste as possible and to recycle as much of that as I possibly can.  When the garden waste collection started the recycling rate went up but home composting went down.  I've always felt that providing wheelie bins was designed to please the landlords who didn't provide free bins for their heavily populated rented houses as they've stolen the pride beauty and greenery from many small gardens further encouraging the concrete which spoils them.

Philippa Bond ● 2448d

You make good points Peter.From a simple council taxpayer's perspective I guess I simply look at both the 'bottom line' (the council tax I pay), whether the service is effective and whether the effort I put into recycling is effective by the recycling rates increasing.I really have no idea what Hillingdon pay to secure their service but from a 'top down' view I do know that they still have weekly collections, free garden waste collections, higher recycling rates than Ealing and lower Council Tax rates.My concern with the LATCO that is being formed is that it adds another 'arms length' layer into the equation in that although the LATCO is owned by Ealing, its employees work for the LATCO and are effectively not council employees.

N V Brooks ● 2449d

It is sensible to bring back under council control contracts where possible. However are the council paying out larger sums than they should do. Is the business plan effective. One thing i noticed that whenever there was a change over of supplier there was always chaos. Things like not having smaller lorries to tackle the narrow roads were an issue. So no doubt the costs kept going up. Another question would be to see what Hillingdon actually pay. Given that Ealing are very secretive about many arrangements it is difficult to make sense of things.

Peter Chadburn ● 2449d

Sorry, you simply cannot swerve answering a direct question by posing another question.The thread is about Ealing's potential reduction in bin collections and I asked you why Ealing is incapable of delivering an equivalent service to neighbouring boroughs.I thought that recycling was important to you, obviously this was just another hollow argument given higher recycling rates in boroughs with weekly collections.Obfuscating the issue with another diatribe about inequality, no matter how valid are the links you posted, simply proves, if nothing else, the paucity, and that is generous, of your defence of Ealing's administration.

N V Brooks ● 2449d

How have you missed that there is an increasing divide between rich and poor?  You haven't read the links.

Philippa Bond ● 2449d

Please answer the simple question that I asked of you.Simply posting links is not an answer as you know.I am delighted that council spending has been cut by 30% it only proves the profligacy and waste that existed.

N V Brooks ● 2449d

Busy!https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/local-councils-england-county-finances-chaos-uk-government-2020-a8421591.htmlhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47882478and in today's news:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48355621Since 2010 Council spending has been cut by 30%Austerity despite Mrs May's monotonous assertion is not over.

Philippa Bond ● 2449d

Having been asked a question Philippa seems strangely quiet.C'mon there must be some left wing 'spin' on this that undermines the facts.

N V Brooks ● 2449d

One only has to look at the excessive salaries paid to 'executives' of these LATCOs to see where the money is wasted.What was once a council service is now run as a 'supplier of services' to the council in many cases with a commensurate increase in costs (and losses)I would counsel anyone interested to review the accounts of Lampton 360 in neighbouring Hounslow.

N V Brooks ● 2449d

Local Authority Trading Companies are not really in-house, they are private companies owned by the council, but not subject to the National agreement on pay and conditions of service for local government services.

Fred Hunt ● 2449d

>>NVB wrote>> Damn those errant apostrophes.  FACT.  :-)>>TH replies>> Glad to see that a return from several years in the Neighbour Net wilderness hasn't diminished your SOH.

Tony Heath ● 2449d

There's a lot to be said for local councils taking work back in house so they can manage the service directly and more flexibly than with a private contract.  Bearing in mind the collapse of Carillion, many private companies under bid to get the contract and then can't deliver to the required standard.  And, as council employees, the workers should transfer across to better pay and conditions than with a private company, such as London Living wage and a proper pension.

Peter Evans ● 2449d

The majority of kerbside collection vehicles are made by Dennis Eagle in Warwick with the tail lifts from a Dennis subsidiary in Liverpool so the tanking of Sterling against the Euro would have minimal impact.Couple this with the fact that the decision to take to contract back in-house was only made last year after the real 'pain' of exchange rate fluctuations then the claim allegedly made that Brexit has increased costs rings a little hollow.

N V Brooks ● 2449d

Pre-referendum, rates were €1.32 to £1.  Went down about 9% that night alone, meaning everything we import cost 9% more because of that vote.  That includes bin lorries.We could have spend that money on something less pointless than exchange differences.

Ben Powell ● 2449d

Damn those errant apostrophes.  FACT.  :-)

N V Brooks ● 2449d

I would be concerned that extending the cycle from two weeks would lead to more littering (those little bags that congregate around the base of trees) and fly tipping.Along with the neighbourhood recycling points why cant we have some form of plain rubbish disposal facility?  I have seen it in some European cities (Seville) an example where paladin bin size containers are below ground with a small litter bin size chute above ground for loading.

Philip Coe ● 2449d

(Nigel, I'm up for a friendly, good natured Battle of The Pedants. Don't take it the wrong way . . . . ).  There is an erroneous placement of an apostrophe. FACT.Keep smiling, today's sunshine is glorious!

Tony Heath ● 2449d

I could post "thank you for pointing out the obvious".Let me give you some comparative FACTS - unpalatable as they may be to a blinkered socialist.Hillingdon has weekly refuse and recycling collections using smaller bins.  FACTHillingdon has FREE garden refuse collections. FACTIn 2016/17 they had a HIGHER recycling rate than Ealing (source: London Waste and Recycling Board. FACTHillingdon Council Tax rates are marginally LOWER than Ealing. FACTHillingdon are investing in ALL of their libraries. FACTResident's parking permits for the first vehicle in a household are FREE in Hillingdon. FACTBusiness parking permits are just over half the rip-off price charged in Ealing. FACTAnswer me this. If Hillingdon can do it, why can't Ealing?

N V Brooks ● 2450d

But he's right.    :-)

Rosco White ● 2450d

Nigel - you are living in EALING not Hillingdon.

Philippa Bond ● 2450d

WAKE UP PHILLIPA!Hillingdon have had their first council tax increase in eleven years. They still have weekly waste and recycling collections along with FREE garden waste collections.Ealing's 'predicament' is down to simple financial mismanagement and an inability to manage a contract.Take off those 'Socialism is wonderful' blinkers and look at the FACTS.

N V Brooks ● 2450d

Interesting that after all the years of frozen Council Tax you feel like that.  Proof I think that it should have been increased a little more each time - especially as the Councils had and still have to find more money for what I consider essential services that I cannot do much about myself - care for those who can't care or need help to care for themselves.  A failure of Central Government.We have a good recycling collection better than some other boroughs which is only a first sort.  Anybody would think that less frequent residual collections was unusual.  It isn't - many people don't need to bother to put their bins out on alternate weeks because they don't need to.  Other Councils already do this.We've had years to practice and if you are not using a food waste bin I suggest you order one online now if you are eligible for one (and aren't composting).REDuce Reuse Repair Repurpose Recycle!

Philippa Bond ● 2450d

As do I Ben we have reached an agreement with our neighbours that we share the black bin as we have one half-filled bag each week as do they.The germane point though and my reason for posting is that Ealing are spending up to £15.8 million to set up a business to bring collections back in house and are blaming Brexit for the increased costs of so doing,Neighbouring Hounslow did the same and the project costs 'ran away' with a reported £27 million being spent.Surely what was needed was effective supplier management of the extant contract.I would really like to see a public declaration of how much this move will cost us all as taxpayers over the next ten years.

N V Brooks ● 2450d

Oh what a surprise. Once upon a time, all residents wanted from their local council were clean streets/pavements and regular rubbish collections. Now we pay record high local rates and get neither of our desires. Great times we live in.

Ian Fergus ● 2450d

Before wheelie bins and fortnightly collections, I would put out one black bin bag every two weeks. My wheelie bin could easily take three weeks of landfill rubbish.

Ben Owen ● 2450d

Unless you have nappies in your black wheelie bin you should easily be able to go more than a fortnight without a collection!I still see unflattened cardboard and unflattened milk and cola bottles.  Nobody would pack their suitcase the way that they fill their wheelie bin.And if you are buying from Amazon you should be filling in the feedback box telling them when they have overpackaged.  We recently had a youngster staying addicted to Amazon and had a delivery of a bag within a box within another box.  Quite ridiculous. They need to reduce their packaging and pay a fair amount of taxes like everyone else including packaging tax which I suspect they aren't. Personally I prefer to make an effort to buy on the high street if I can. 

Philippa Bond ● 2450d