Forum Topic

Tesco Osterley - On The Move

Ref the news story on the front page what is the logic of developing the nearby Homebase site for a new Tesco and then building housing on the old site?  Why not keep Tesco where it is and build housing on the Homebase site?

Philip Coe ● 2379d49 Comments

It was closed this afternoon.

Mari Austin ● 2364d

https://www.newstatesman.com/2017/07/developers-are-using-trick-get-out-building-affordable-homes

Philippa Bond ● 2368d

Your insight will be invaluable, please keep us posted.

N V Brooks ● 2370d

The local residents association is OWGRA (Osterley & Wyke Green Residents' Association) which was rejuvenated 3 years ago and is very active (I am the Secretary).  We are already in touch with Tesco and have submitted a long list of questions about the proposed developments.  We have form and experience in working closely with developers and have had some successes eg a planning application has just been approved at Gillette Corner at the demolished Shell garage site for a 3-5 storey office/self-storage facility, which started off 2.5 years ago as a 14 storey block of flats and self-storage, so we have achieved some success here.As KOG (Keep Osterley Green) we fought a very hard year long campaign against the Nishkam School, based on their almost non-existent public consultation, flawed choice of site on MOL and totally inaccurate traffic forecasts (huge underestimate, and we have now been proved to be right in our traffic forecasts).  We went to Judicial Review, but lost, but learnt a hell of a lot en route.We will posting information on the Tesco to Homebase move on our website as we get more information https://owgra.org.uk/

Barbara Stryjak ● 2370d

Ealing Council has contributed to its own financial problems through poor planning, mismanagement and naked vote grabbing by freezing council tax for years.I was clearing out our bureau this morning and found a letter from Julian Bell from April 2016 boasting how Council Tax was being frozen yet again. This was despite being able to raise it by 3.9% that year.According to Bell the rise was partly intended to pay for social care. He boasted that an extra £2.3m was being allocated for social care that year, rising to £4m by April this year. Added to that was the creation of a ‘special £5m social care transformation fund’. He said: ‘This package exceeds the amount of additional money that the council would have been able to raise if we had agreed to increase council tax’.Now we are told social care costs are so high there is no money for front line services such as libraries or children’s centres so perhaps that boast of freezing council tax looks somewhat hollow. If people want services then they should expect to contribute to them, be that through council tax or some other form of revenue raising. The government grants the council continually tells us have been cut isn’t  magic money found at the end if a rainbow, it’s tax money.Of course, our councillors could help us out by taking their hands out of the till and reducing the amounts they trouser through allowances. They don’t all need them.

Simon Hayes ● 2372d

For pity's sake.Carillion's, Capita's and Serco's exponential growth was made while Blair and Brown were in power Phillipa. Pre-dating any austerity measures.It may be an inconvenient truth for all Socialists but it was Blair and Brown's administrations that rushed headlong into this.Equally, as it is incumbent upon local government to seek 'best value' why did Ealing and neighbouring Hounslow dismantle their DLO's and enter into outsourcing arrangements which, cost more, delivered poorer services and were terminated early as a result?Remind me, which party was in power when Ealing entered into the disastrous refuse/recycling outsourcing contract?

N V Brooks ● 2372d

Outsourcing comes about as a direct result of the cuts in grants that Govt has made to all the Councils - the continuing (despite the PM saying it was over) austerity programme that it upsets you so much to be reminded of.  Even the Tory councils have been having problems..  including the flagship Tory Wandsworth.  Remind me how the Govt dealt with that one...There are some consultancy firms making serious money out the cuts.

Philippa Bond ● 2372d

Here’s something to think about with all the brownfield development being undertaken. Would you live on the site if an old gasworks?https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/04/brownfield-site-new-homes-building-wrecking-health-southall?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR18fNcyzQPy23u7guTJiRG13Dlce1gGkrMijrXcAPg4CotzC-aCqXUCl3A

Simon Hayes ● 2374d

No one forced Gordon Brown to sell a massive proportion of the nation's gold reserve when prices were at an all time low.No one forced Labour into entering into PFI contracts which have some of the most commercially suicidal (for the taxpayer) conditions.We should also remember that 'outsourcing' contract lets under labour were significantly higher then under the previous administrations. One only has to look at how disastrous this has been locally, let alone nationally.

N V Brooks ● 2374d

And that all came after a period with the Tories in office.  When the Tories are in office they they cut the funding going into the maintenance of state schools, hospitals and other buildings as they believe in low taxes.  Consequently as soon as Labour gets into power they spend on everything that has been run down while the Tories were in power.  They were unlucky that there was a global financial crisis caused by bankers selling each other gift wrapped sweet nothings of debts.  So the Government bailed out the banks so that our population could still use them...We need a better system.

Philippa Bond ● 2374d

PFI was a Tory initiative in a very controlled way and was lunched under Major in 1991/92. Labour claimed it was 'privatisation by the back door' but in 1997 less than two months after the Labour landslide this 'nasty Tory policy' was massively expanded by Labour with the NHS (Private Finance) Act. We should never, ever, forget that it was New Labour who introduced this.PFI only works when money is cheap and the contract terms are sensible.  2008 saw us all suffering from the global financial crisis, money became more expensive and Labour were still entering into reckless 40 and 50 year term PFI deals. They could crow about new public facilities but the terms meant that many of these would be redundant before they were even paid for.No matter how you view it, Labour have been complicit in the privatisation of large swathes of the public sector and it will be well into our grandchildren's generation before this fully unravels.

N V Brooks ● 2374d

Both Labour and Tory councils have used PFI.  Apparently it is a good way to raise finance for major projects.  I understand that if you are lucky it works for you but if the markets go the wrong way and there may be other problems (good enough contracts?) it doesn't...

Philippa Bond ● 2374d

With that I have absolutely no argument.The definition of 'affordable' must have been set by someone with little regard to 'real-life' economics.Half-a-million-pound shoeboxes are, by no stretch of the imagination, affordable.It really is time for a radical rethink about how we use redundant 'brown-field' sites and also to clamp-down on the number of voids and empty properties we all know exist on virtually every street.

N V Brooks ● 2374d

https://grimshaw.global/projects/homebase-superstore/

Philippa Bond ● 2374d

There is a big difference between social housing and affordable housing.  We keep being given these PR false definitions by government. Affordable housing is not affordable for many people.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/03/affordable-housing-rural-england-planning-laws-loophole-exploited-developers-report

Philippa Bond ● 2374d

I cannot disagree that the 'right to buy' policy was ill thought out in terms of the way that it destroyed social cohesion and there have been equally, financially disastrous and socially divisive, policies since. As example. the Labour 'head-rush' into PFI which we will all be paying for into the 2040's and beyond.However, there are very many ways to 'skin a cat' and given the need to balance the books, albeit that 'austerity' has gone on for way too long, some local authorities have simply targeted 'easy pickings' while others have actually sought to spend wisely and to the benefit of their residents.A 'never to be completed' interchange at North Acton (£5million plus), a virtually unused car park at the 'wrong' end of Southall (£2million+), planters full of dead shrubs in Southall (God knows how much) does not smack of 'wise' spending.

N V Brooks ● 2374d

Unfortunately both major parties have strong extreme factions.  Isn't that what a lot of the problems are about?

Philippa Bond ● 2374d

Disagree Nigel.  Margaret Thatcher wanted everyone to be home owners.  Those living in council homes were given the opportunity to buy their homes at discounted prices. Some still have that right.  There have been and are various other schemes since. What was problematic was that it was made difficult for councils to build replacement homes for social housing - the money was not put back into social housing it was not ring-fenced for housing.  It all went to the Treasury - and at other times it has been a percentage that the councils have been allowed to keep.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41324305http://www.historyandpolicy.org/policy-papers/papers/the-right-to-buy-history-and-prospect https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/right-to-buy-council-homes-sold-off-private-landlords-rent-tory-cap-a8189881.html

Philippa Bond ● 2374d

Firestone's had a 'mystery' fire in 1980. My late father (GRHS) was working on a temporary rewiring scheme in the area where the fire ostensibly started ( a job centre had been set up there to try and find alternative employment for the 1500 people made redundant the previous February) and spent the entire weekend in a blind panic until he was told that the seat of the fire was on a totally different part of the site. It was never confirmed that the fire was 'suspicious' but it was enough for the bulldozers to roll in and destroy the building over the August Bank Holiday weekend while Hounslow Council and the (then) Department of the Environment argued about who should have given it an emergency preservation listing. It took a further 21 years to list the gates and fencing!!!

N V Brooks ● 2375d

I seem to remember the Firestone Tyres building had  some kind of preservation order put on ut and then 5 mins later was bulldozed to the ground by developers. Ditto the absolutely lovely old cinema that used to be on Acton High St and then became Sainsbury's. Bulldozed over a bank holiday weekend and developers fined £250k, peanuts in the scheme of things.

Keith Iddon ● 2375d

No, some of them were absolutely wonderful inside.The old Pyrene building and the one that was occupied by Carillion had some wonderful art deco features internally with sweeping staircases and ornate door casings. In the case of the old Carillion building even the door handles were pieces of architectural merit.

N V Brooks ● 2375d

I think the Golden Mile buildings only had architecturally interesting fronts to impress passing traffic, disguising the usual factory sheds behind. In future years we might be campaigning to save those unique 'car showrooms in the sky' along the A4, when the gas guzzling cars they contain are no more!

Peter Evans ● 2375d

I think we may have to look elsewhere if we want inspiring architecture. It's a shame as there used to be such iconic buildings on the 'Golden Mile'. I suspect a 'functional' building designed by someone who looks on Lego as inspiration for aesthetically pleasing lines. I will gladly be proven wrong.

N V Brooks ● 2376d

I wonder if the new Tesco store will, architecturally, be other than a big shed? At least Homebase tried something different on this site with its 30 metre tower, as they did with  Homebase on Warwick Road, Earls Court, and its Egyptian inspired frieze - now demolished.

Philip Coe ● 2376d

Touchy these QPR fans!That is NOT what I said.Please read my post again.Both Grasshoppers and the Nisham School sites had IMMEDIATE community access which is already up and running. What community access there was, severely curtailed by the mismanagement of the Warren farm site by Ealing Council, has now gone and will not be restored until QPR build their new facility.The 11 a side pitches are gone for the moment but there are plenty of other spaces (Gymkhana, Oaklands and LPFA where you can play).

N V Brooks ● 2376d

So Warren Farm won’t have “community” access? I think you’re wrong there, and I’d say you know it.I understood the root of SWF protest was the loss of green open spaces and environmental impact. I’d love to do before and after hard standing measures on the two other developments noted.Just where have the public use football pitches which used to be opposite Wyke Green Golf Club been relocated to???

Colin Goodman ● 2376d

I don't believe that there is more than an early stages consultation at the moment.Building it above its own car park (like many other Tesco stores) would make sense but, as you rightly say traffic management will be key as getting out of Homebase can be a nightmare at times.

N V Brooks ● 2377d

Current Tesco site is approx 38000 sq mtrs. (Incl. filling station, approx 32000 sq mtrs without).Homebase site is approx 15000 sq mtrs.Only way for the homebase site to have the same amount of parking is to build the store above the car park, as well as having it two tier in the current format.The entry/exit would have to be redesigned for traffic management in my opinion.I can't see any plans on the planning portal for Hounslow planning portal at the moment.Any one have any other information?

Lee Page ● 2377d

You don't have to go far to see how it could (should be done).No ridiculous high-rise blocks.Free CPZ permits for the first car in all resident's households (with a severe uplift for polluting and extra vehicles).Councillors not taking their full allowances and voting for modest increases.Every one of the borough's libraries receiving investment.Action to reduce traveller incursion onto public land rather than wasting money evicting and cleaning up after the event.One modest council tax increase in eleven years.One of the greenest boroughs in LondonWeekly waste and recycling collections.The name of this 'utopia'?HillingdonUnfortunately for some posters here it is a Tory borough.

N V Brooks ● 2378d

I don’t disagree with you about Ealing Council. They are not interested in making this a fair and pleasant borough to live in, it’s all about the easy option and shovelling cash into their pockets through a very generous allowance scheme.Meanwhile responsibility for ensuring social housing, proper libraries, well-managed services is abdicated, ostensibly blamed on Tory cuts. I don’t see neighbouring councils shafting their residents quite so gleefully.Meanwhile community assets are handed over to private developers for nothing - Warren Farm and the Town Hall to name but two. Do we really need a boutique hotel in the middle of Ealing? It ain’t going to be much benefit to 99% of us.My point about Gordon Brown was he allowed the banks to rule the roost with his soft touch approach, then when it all went belly up it was our cash baling them out. Thus a Tory government could usher in austerity (though not for messrs Blair and Osborne), which has allowed Bell and his mates to get away with their blatant opportunists for nine years.

Simon Hayes ● 2378d

You totally miss the point. The decision whether or not to enforce the social housing element of any development is made locally.Last time I looked Ealing was being 'managed' by a cohort of spendthrift, ostensibly Socialist Philistines with not a Tory in sight.Sorry but you are simply wrong.

N V Brooks ● 2378d

Well, it was a Labour government that presided over the financial crash and then shoved our money into saving them. Old no more boom and bust Brown as I recall.Tories are as bad as they have imposed austerity for far too long while ‘spaffing’ money by the bucket load on nonsense after nonsense (Brexit ferries anyone?)But Corbyn won’t be an improvement.

Simon Hayes ● 2378d

Sorry Nigel but if the Tories weren't trying to reduce the size of state involvement in everything they wouldn't be privatising and selling off everything they possibly can.  It is dogmatic ideology.  How many of these privatised ventures have we taxpayers now needed to bail out after government money (our money) has been lost and wasted?

Philippa Bond ● 2378d

Apparently the new Tesco will have an underground car park with two storeys of shop floor above and, it’s suggested, flats above that.

Simon Hayes ● 2378d

I guess the difference with the relocation of Grasshoppers is that , irrespective of local protests, it would have happened as the old Grasshoppers site is being immediately released to build a new school. The new school and relocated Grasshoppers are relatively low-impact and have immediately available community use unlike the Warren Farm development. Equally, Grasshoppers and the Niksham Trust paid commercial rates (albeit that Grasshoppers was a land swap) for the land they occupy, unlike QPR who got a 200 year lease on Warren Farm for a peppercorn rent.

N V Brooks ● 2378d

"Tory policy has been to reduce this".What absolute twaddle and I would expect better from even the most 'rabid' left-winger.The requirement for social housing is defined nationally but IMPLEMENTED locally. It is simply down to the local authority to enforce the requirement. Unlike Ealing who are happy to accept 'pittance' payments to allow developers to absolve themselves of actually building a social element into their developments. Dickens Yard is a prime example.Ealing is, of course, ostensibly a socialist council but this 'inconvenient truth' does not lay well with those who blame a Tory government for everything including local ordure.

N V Brooks ● 2378d

The new Tesco site won’t be “driven” by size of car park - why would they?Once you combine the two NHC blocks of box sized flats with houses on the current Tesco site PLUS, don’t forget, the houses which are to be developed on the old Grasshoppers site; you’ve got a huge walking distance market. Combine that with the projected increase in click and deliver from a generational demographic position and car park space is of little priority.The planners will of course hail this and eco friendly whilst ignoring them he infrastructure strain an extra 10,000 dwellings have on the area.What’s the future for the Gillette building I wonder???My other question on this is what are the local pressure group doing about all this development on their doorstep? Save Warren Farm were up in arms about a sports development on a sports ground but I’ve not heard a peep from any similar angle over the loss of masses of green space when the fields were lost to the Sikh school / new Grasshopper club or any of he recent plans. Perhaps those developments don’t impact the alleged Brentford fans behind that pressure group as much???!Interesting though that after their 5 year campaign what might have actually happened if Warren Farm hadn’t gone through. Maybe a huge housing development was the preference from that patch of land after all.

Colin Goodman ● 2378d

The developers are allowed to too easily wriggle out of the requirement for a percentage of social housing.  Tory policy has been to reduce this hence the selling off of Council housing and making it difficult for Councils to build.

Philippa Bond ● 2378d

Ealing's planners baffle me.The borough needs more social housing and housing for young families.I have yet to see any of these tower block schemes providing either let alone the seeming total lack of consideration for the impact that such high density developments have on existing health and education infrastructure.

N V Brooks ● 2379d

I heard about that. Part of the plan to turn Ealing into tower block borough of the century. I’m amazed that the planning mistakes of the past always return.

Simon Hayes ● 2379d

I doubt the new store will have a filling station.Tesco are selling/have already sold the filling station and a chunk of the car park at Perivale for a monstrous tower block development.

N V Brooks ● 2379d

Not to mention the petrol station at the current site. Will they put one in the new site? Although by then the car park might be entirely full of electric vehicle charging points.

Simon Hayes ● 2379d

>>NVB writes>>  Tesco Osterley site not significantly larger than Homebase site.>>TH replies>> Looking at GoogleEarth, I would say the Tesco site is approx twice the (land area) size of the Homebase site, including their respective car parking areas.

Tony Heath ● 2379d

Not significantly so. If you look at the two sites on Google Earth the Homebase site is smaller but many Tesco Stores now have a full two stories so this may be in the plans.

N V Brooks ● 2379d

As has already been mentioned, isn't the current Homebase site much smaller than the current Tesco site?

Tony Heath ● 2379d

I can only agree Andy, although I am amazed at how quickly the properties on the A4 corridor sell. The old Sky Building (new Horizons Court) on Shield Drive sold out 'off plan' and the second phase is under conversion.

N V Brooks ● 2379d

Living right next to the A4 isn't that attractive an option whereas the site is more accessible to shoppers. You'd be surprised at the number of people who have no idea that there is a Tesco at Osterley.

Andy Jones ● 2379d

From reading threads from a planing expert who frequents the TW8 forum, the Homebase site is designated as 'industrial/retail'.The current site lends itself far better to residential development.IIRC the timescale for this to be completed is 'end 2024'.

N V Brooks ● 2379d

I think there was an issue about what could be built on the Homebase site, hence the reversal of the decision to close it last year. I’m not sure quite how they will fit a comparable sized car park onto the site. The one at Tesco already gets quite full and the Homebase site seems smaller to me.Mind you, given the decision today to reject the court case against a third runway at Heathrow I’m not sure people will be flocking to move into the housing on the existing Tesco site. The planes fly very low over there.

Simon Hayes ● 2379d