Forum Topic

Huqsterism (hucksterism)?

Does anyone have a clue what this is really about?The Guardian,  24m ago 17:00As part of her effort to consult with MPs over Brexit, Theresa May agreed to see the Labour MP Rupa Huq, who went to Number 10 to lobby for a second referendum. Huq told May that she would vote for her deal if it were tied to a referendum. She said:    I said that it would be a huge climbdown for me, but I would let her deal go through - and there’s at least 100 like me - if it was subject to a confirmatory referendum.May told Huq was opposed to the idea, saying the result of the referendum had to be honoured. “I was saying ‘that was three years ago, you need to check’,” Huq said.Huq said she left the meeting “still not much the wiser” about which of May’s red lines would change in an effort to get a deal through.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2215d26 Comments

There is clearly a determination, which has been evidenced on this thread, to turn MPs into delegates rather than representatives. The unwillingness of some to give Rupa Huq any credit whatsoever for her achievement is just one aspect of this trend. I've long been a supporter of First Past The Post but now have changed my view. Our current system means that people are forced to vote for the party they think is most likely to defeat the one they don't want to see elected rather than the one that best reflects their views.

Gordon Southwell ● 2196d

This does make a lot of sense. Social media is a double edged sword for politicians and political parties. The main problem is that it doesn't do complexity and I think it goes a long way to explain how elected representatives are becoming increasingly alienated from party memberships. Members of parties on both left and right are increasing participating in echo chambers where views are not subject to debate or scrutiny. This is perhaps most notable recently in the rapid uptake of the idea of 'Let's Go WTO' which seemed to gain huge traction among Brexit supporters. It's a catchy slogan but the arguments against it while being utterly convincing if you absorb them require you to take in facts about international trade law. Any brave Conservative MP who tried to do so was greeted with a barrage of abuse. There are plenty of examples of this on the left as well.What appears to have happened is that lots of people have lost trust in their MPs because they refuse to confirm that the simple solutions to all our problems that their friends on Facebook and Twitter talk about are actually viable.

Mark Evans ● 2197d

It is probably only to be expected that people who have been marginalised by the huge change that has taken place in the party in recent years will be unwilling to accept that the campaigning efforts have suffered because they are not taking part. Therefore it may well be that there was a boost in 2017 from a new wave of members will to actually do some graft. What I can't accept is that social media makes much difference. Labour only has an edge here because the other parties are so inept but my view is that this doesn't really give them a significant advantage. Social media is great for confirming to people that their beliefs are right because it allows them to interact predominantly with like-minded people. Elections are ultimately about persuading people over to your point of view but social media tends to make members of all parties think the world is a place without any complexity and push people to the extreme. A strong social media presence can actually work against a party being elected because it becomes unable to see beyond its own internal discussions. This does seem to be something that is happening in the states. The Democrats are up against the worst sitting President in history but the way their leadership contest is evolving suggest they have little interest in any views that are not those of party activists. This communicates to voters who become faced with two unpalatable choices and there is a real danger of Trump getting re-elected.

Dennis O'Shea ● 2199d

Speaking as a stalwart Party member, that wasn't our experience of what happened during the 2017 campaign. Admittedly, some established members had left, not liking the direction the Party was moving in, but we had a surprising number of keen youngsters turn up to be introduced to the arcane processes of door to door canvassing and voter ID grids. A lot of that enthusiastic interest came from the wave of new members (and some old members coming back) who joined during the drawn out Corbyn leadership battle, attracted by the new policies and brought together by the more sophisticated use of social media. Of course we don't expect the same numbers to come to our regular meetings or to help at more low key local elections, but, come the next General Election, with so much at stake, I expect we'll be out there in numbers again, spreading the message and getting out the vote!

Peter Evans ● 2200d

A friend of mine who has campaigned for the Labour party in over eight general elections would dispute the view that the increase in membership has made the party more effective as a campaign organisation. She says many stalwart party members who were the backbone of previous campaigns have become disillusioned and it is hard to find more recent joiners who are willing to the grunt work of filling envelopes, delivering leaflets and knocking on doors.

Dennis O'Shea ● 2200d

The Labour Party also put a huge effort into door to door campaigning in Rupa's constituency because it was so marginal. With nearly half a million members, the Labour Party can be far more active in its campaigning than other parties, and keen new members came to Ealing from all over London and beyond to help get the vote out for Rupa. With such a swing we were perhaps too effective and should have targeted Putney or even Uxbridge. Maybe next time!

Peter Evans ● 2200d

The result in Ealing Central was near identical to the one in Brentford and Isleworth, just as it has been in 2010 and 2015. Looks very much like there are regional reasons for Labour's success in this part of West London.

Vlod Barchuk ● 2201d

The swing to Rupa was 16.7% in the last election on top of a 13.%% swing in 2015 and compared to a swing of less than 10% for Labour overall. Clearly if there were more candidates like Rupa there would be a Labour government now!

Mark Evans ● 2201d

People don't read manifestos. Why they vote the way they do is complex but there is no doubt that in London at least the success of the party was down to the belief of voters that Labour offered the better chance of No Brexit or a softer Brexit despite what their manifesto said. 

Dennis O'Shea ● 2201d

People voted Labour in increased numbers in the 2017 General Election because of the excellent and appealing party manifesto. They reckon that an MP's personal popularity only adds about 6% to their vote.

Peter Evans ● 2201d

Although her stance on the EU was certainly the main reason I unhesitatingly voted for Rupa it might be that her personal views weren't the main reason for the landslide. Just look at how well Kate Hoey did - people were voting Labour as it offered at worst a softer Brexit. The EU elections offers a chance to deliver a clearer message.

Andy Jones ● 2202d

Rupa's massive majority, won in a seat that was held by a tiny margin is largely down to her personal commitment and unambiguous commitment to the remain cause. The problem that many of her constituents face now is how to vote in the European elections. It concerns me that negotiations with the Tories over Brexit have gone on for so long which increases the chances that Labour might facilitate leaving the EU by extracting some meaningless concessions in return for supporting Theresa May. It also is a worry that Seb Dance, a sitting MEP and prominent remainer has been demoted down the priority order for candidates making it less likely he will be returned. The last election was unambiguous for people like me who were determined to use their vote to increase the chance of us staying in the EU. This time the choice doesn't seem clear.

Mark Evans ● 2202d

I think you are right up to a point Mark. But do you really think we have not had enough discussion and explanation of this issue? To me the striking thing over the last few years has been the unwillingness of so many people to change their minds despite an overwhelming body of evidence that suggests they should.

Andy Jones ● 2202d

Thank you Doctor Huq, I think that I like many people have no real idea of what is happening and what (if anything) we should do. We are left looking for crumbs of hidden meaning possible where there are no crumbs of hidden meaning there.What I would like to see from all our elected leaders, like yourself, is more information, discussion, and dialogue. There has to be some catharsis for the population as a whole and discussion and explanation are a good route

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2202d

Hello, I have along been an advocate of a Peoples Vote. I suported an amendment to the EU Withdrawal Agreement whereby I would abstain on May's deal allowing its Parliamentary passage subject to it having a confirmatory vote attached. Click here to see me in an exchange with the PM last week: https://twitter.com/RupaHuq/status/1116366392029327368I hope this clarifies my position for you. Any constituent emailing me can recieve a more detailed reply: rupa.huq.mp@parliament.uk

Dr Rupa Huq MP ● 2203d

Yes, it looks like a word is missing. It was Mrs May who said the result of the referendum needed to be respected.

Mark Evans ● 2204d

Well I understand that as meaning that the referendum was three years ago and that Mrs May should check that that is really what the people want today.

Philippa Bond ● 2204d

Mark, to quote the live blog:"May told Huq was opposed to the idea, saying the result of the referendum had to be honoured. “I was saying ‘that was three years ago, you need to check’,” Huq said."The Honourable Doctor Huq M.P. is apparently saying that she supported honouring the Referendum result three years ago.It is not unknown for M.P.s' to have to represent three different views with credibility, a) their own personal view, b) the view of their local party group, and c) the official view of the political party. The three may be the same, or they may be very different, so the M.P. may end up having to deal with multiple possible contradictory views all at the same time depending on appropriate accountability in a particular situation (hence the cognitive dissonance)

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2204d

I don't recall Rupa Huq ever publicly supporting the idea of 'the referendum must be honoured' - she voted against implementing Article 50 right at the start of this process. I think you have got confused about who said what at this meeting.

Mark Evans ● 2205d

If some one addresses me with their attention and interaction I take it as an honour that they are willing to have discourse with me and unless they are profane I will do my best to enter into dialogue with them and understand their point of view even if I disagree with it.The question that arises in my mind is that the Honourable Doctor Huq's position started off as "Leave", she appears to say that the outcome of the Referendum as a "Leave" vote was to be honoured at that time, i.e. that we should "Leave", yet now she is saying that we should "Leave", however, that we should have another Referendum AFTER we have left, to what purpose, what does this mean? What will this ACHIEVE?(Sidebar: As a practicing Roman Catholic, "Cognitive Dissonance" is a key factor in the way the faith functions)

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2206d

People change their mind with changing times and priorities.  By the way you using long fancy words does not intimidate me.  I studied psychology at Southbank, Social work at the LSE and psychotherapy and counselling more recently.  Anybody can quote from Wikkepedia as you have but it doesn't make your argument right or demonstrate that you actually understand the concept.  There is so much more to this than your little quote suggests.  I am not going to engage with you on this because I find your tone offensive and your argument poor.

Marion Dunn ● 2208d

A bit confused about what exactly your point is Mark. More than most MPs, Rupa Huq has been very consistent in her views, voting against triggering Article 50 and being unambiguous for her support for remaining in the EU at the last election.

Andy Jones ● 2212d

Chris, lets look at those WORDS again, this is what the Honourable Dr Rupa Huq M.P. said: “I was saying ‘that was three years ago, you need to check’,” Huq said about the result of the referendum having to be honoured. QED

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2215d

To quote the live blog excerpt (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/apr/04/brexit-latest-developments-live-hammond-opens-up-cabinet-split-by-saying-mps-should-get-vote-on-second-referendum-live-news?page=with:block-5ca629538f081da83cc09816#block-5ca629538f081da83cc09816):May told Huq was opposed to the idea, saying the result of the referendum had to be honoured. “I was saying ‘that was three years ago, you need to check’,” Huq said.-----It's badly written copy, but it's a liveblog, so we'll forgive them. But the quote about the deal needing to be honoured is from May not from Rupa Huq. As she states, Rupa Huq is in favour because of the time that has passed.

Chris Gilson ● 2215d

In the same article the Honourable Dr Rupa Huq M.P. was quoted in The Guardian s saying:“I was saying [that the deal that the deal had to be honoured].. that was three years ago"and earlier:" I would let her deal go through... if it was subject to a confirmatory referendum."Do you not recognize Cognitive Dissonance when you see it: "the reduction of the psychological stress of cognitive dissonance is a function of the magnitude of the dissonance caused by the existential inconsistency, between two contradictory beliefs held by the person; or by the contradiction between the person's beliefs and an action he or she has taken"That that and then the blatant contradiction, where DID you study psychology?

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2215d

Seems self explanatory to me.  What don't you understand?

Marion Dunn ● 2215d