Forum Topic

Dockless bicycles.

Just received the following email.Dear Sir or Madam,The following response has been made to the ePetition titled "Ask the council to, Debate, consult in public and review the dockless bike schemes in Ealing Borough." that you signed:The Council’s policy is to increase the cycling mode share, this has significant air quality and health benefits and is likely to reduce demand for car parking spaces over time. As such, the dockless cycle hire scheme is helping us achieve this policy.  There were over 2,000 rides last week week using dockless cycles and with very few complaints from the public since the scheme was first implemented in September 2017.  The vast majority of bikes are left in reasonable locations for future hire.  Leaving them in multiple places actually increases, not decreases access to a bicycle as claimed. If you do see a bicycle completely blocking the footway, the contact details on the bike will allow you to report it; the operators have a few hours to respond as per our agreement with them and to date they have been reasonably good at doing so and have been generally compliant with both the TfL code of practice and the agreement with the Council. Also, it is incorrect to state that Manchester rejected the scheme.  It was a commercial decision by Mobike to withdraw the service.  The levels of vandalism and theft are significantly lower in Ealing, but there is no cost to the public purse when this does occasionally occur.

Dennis Bailey ● 2447d42 Comments

Just to update my comments earlier about the bikes being increasingly non-functional or damaged - there now seems to have been a significant improvement. It is only anecdotal as I don't use them that often but I think more effort is being made to maintain them.

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 2409d

Sounds like a great place to use them.The space opposite South Ealing tube works well and is a good pick up point for those people arriving there and wanting to cycle onwards to places eg the uni buildings and the museum.  I'm sure there was more info on the original obrien UCL data on where bikes were being taken to which would help with where they should be sited so as to get good usage. The Santander ones are expensive in comparison so need siting carefully.  Rules of usage may need tweaking as use increases.

Philippa Bond ● 2418d

Thanks Mark.I wonder if UWL could be involved in something like this as the bikes were certainly 'in evidence' when I drove past Brunel on Tuesday.

N V Brooks ● 2423d

I noticed a group of e-bikes outside Acton Town tube and several outside Gunnersbury Museum.  Looked like a group visit.I wondered where they had gpne.

Philippa Bond ● 2423d

There is a difference between a docking system for the shared bikes and being able to leave them propped against a Sheffield bike stand or similar.  I think it is understood that the stand on the Mobikes isn't as sturdy or efficient as it might be.  Also the veto on leaving Mobikes at Sheffield bike stands in order to prioritise other bikes is unhelpful to Mobike users. Sometimes users will leave them lined up beside these which works well but obviously this depends on the space available.

Philippa Bond ● 2423d

My understanding is that the Brunel scheme operates on a different basis to the one in the centre of London. It is even more heavily subsidised and a lot cheaper but there are only 50 bikes with stations at the university, the hospital and the train station. If we could get schemes like this funded for Ealing and Acton that would be great but that probably isn't going to happen. Therefore we should be grateful for the one we have which may have deficiencies but doesn't need grant support.

Mark Evans ● 2425d

The Santander scheme is already in Uxbridge with 'stations' in the town centre and at Brunel University. Judging by the number of Santander bikes I saw when driving past Brunel this evening it is VERY popular.

N V Brooks ● 2426d

The problem with introducing docking stations is that it adds to the fixed cost and makes it impossible for a cycling scheme to be introduced without a subsidy. The Santander scheme costs a huge amount of money and hiring the bikes is quite expensive as well as less convenient if a docking station is not near you. Dockless bike schemes are cheaper to run and work better for users outside central London and don't cost the tax payer a penny. It is unlikely we will get the Santander scheme out this far so if we lose Lime Bike and Mobike (in Acton) there will be cycle hire scheme locally.

Mark Evans ● 2426d

That should of course read mobikes and maybe the mistake is just that it should just read Ealing instead of Acton or are they in South Acton as well?

Philippa Bond ● 2429d

So I wonder if the reason that the trolleys didn't work was because they were rescue trolleys and as soon as they were rescued AND checked over before return to the rack the standard improved.The O'Brien website has some comments on ways to encourage cyclists to return bikes.  They still need maintenance.  Lack of maintenance of electric car charge points is a problem too and puts people off.

Philippa Bond ● 2430d

Some of the other pages are much older.  It isn't correct about mobiles only being in Acton now.

Philippa Bond ● 2430d

Page published on 25th February 2019.

N V Brooks ● 2430d

The difference is that supermarkets don't intentionally scatter their trollies around our streets, while scattering their bikes about the place is an essential feature of the bike companies' business.

Peter Evans ● 2430d

Thanks Nigel.  I have read this website before but not for a while.I couldn't work out how up to date it is.  We have mobikes around South Ealing tube station.  They arrived about a year and half ago I think when it was cold and are still around and we do see them being used.  I haven't seen a lime green electric one for a while.I'm sure I also saw info on Paris but can't find it again.

Philippa Bond ● 2430d

Yes, and of course there are fewer large supermarkets now.  There are lots of supermarket 'locals' and we have lost a lot of the diversity that we had. I can't remember when I last had a problem trolley.

Philippa Bond ● 2430d

Really easy though to 'vote with your feet' if the trolleys don't work.Most supermarkets have upped their game as little annoyances like trolleys can make a customer shift alegence.

N V Brooks ● 2430d

But the trolleys already AT the supermarket never used to work.  It used to be a fight to get them to go the way that you wanted them to go they so often had a mind of their own and it was such a faff once you were half way round to change it or to go to Customer Services to report it as not fit for purpose. At a glance they don't look different.

Philippa Bond ● 2430d

We have enterprising companies who respond to reports of dumped trolleys and who collect them, in some cases refurbish them, and return them to the supermarkets.Every major supermarket has a 'dumped trolly' number to call.

N V Brooks ● 2430d

Your post reminds me of the troubles and exasperation that we used to have with supermarket trolleys.  What changed with those to make the difference?

Philippa Bond ● 2430d

There is a cracking review of the cost of 'hiring' a shared use bike here:http://oobrien.com/category/london/

N V Brooks ● 2430d

The idea that this is a data mining operation is probably incorrect. You need millions of individuals' records to generate any sort of income from data and Mobike doesn't have the critical mass.It would not have contracted its area of operations if its primary purpose was data rather than generating cash from hiring bikes.They don't seem to be doing that well as I agree with the earlier comments that the stock is deteriorating. A significant proportion of hires that I have done recently have had some sort of issue with the bike sometimes those that make the bike unusable and sometimes niggles like the seat height being unadjustable. They don't charge you if you report problems but it is worrying that reports don't seem to be resulting in new bikes appearing.

Mark Evans ● 2430d

The European Bicycle Manufacturer's Association are, unsurprisingly, less than complementary.http://ebma-brussels.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Summary-of-Articles-about-Chinese-dockless-bike-sharing-companies.pdf

N V Brooks ● 2432d

A good point and well documented on the link below and on other sites.https://www.bikebiz.com/data-mining-is-why-billions-are-being-pumped-into-dockless-bikes/

N V Brooks ● 2432d

Mobikes are a data mining company and once they get the most data they think they will from an area, they'll move on. This could possibly be why the bike stock is getting a bit old.They don't mind if people stop using the bikes, they've got what they came for.

Tania Bapuji ● 2432d

I use these bikes very occasionally and find them to be an asset. However, there seems to have been a significant degradation of the bikes over the last few months with more non-functioning or having issues that make them more difficult to cycle. If the company is just going to let the current stock deteriorate then people will stop using them.

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 2432d

It would be interesting to know why bikes have been left in some positions.  I often see them near bus stops and that is an obvious place to put some bike stands.The data collected on their trips should prove interesting and helpful of where to place bike stands that could be used by all.  I think too much emphasis has been put on not upsetting other cyclists who are becoming more and more arrogant in their disregard of the Highway Code.

Philippa Bond ● 2433d

Oxford still only has a very limited extended pilot scheme (less than 200 bikes in total) and has a comprehensive code of conduct to which all operators must subscribe:  https://www.oxford.gov.uk/downloads/file/3893/oxford_code_of_conduct_for_dockless_bike_sharing_operatorsThe longest part of this document relates to 'avoidance of obstruction' and parking.

N V Brooks ● 2434d

There have been several incarnations of these around the country - design and management has changed a bit.  H&F had some ages ago now.Even Oxford - a city synonymous with cycling - has them.  It would be interesting to know whether Oxford's guidelines for their use is different from those that you see in London.  It would have been interesting to find out what would have happened if they had allowed/been able to be attached to the Sheffield stands already in the street.It would be good if cycles here were sold with some of the safety features these have as a default - like basic lights and reflective wheels.  Niggly things like this put people off cycling.

Philippa Bond ● 2434d

If anybody ever thought that these things were good for the global environment then please take a look at this image:https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2018/03/bikes/b01_RTX3SB7P-1/original.jpgThis is one of a number of 'excess bike dumps' in China where over 16,000,000 'excess' bikes have been dumped.TfL issued a Code of Conduct back in 2017 which was clear that ".....schemes do not have a negative impact on other cyclists, road users and pedestrians or result in unlawful highway obstruction.”This clearly is not enforced.Dockless bikes, responsibly managed, have tremendous potential but management is key as is responsible operation both  by the bike companies and by those hiring them.

N V Brooks ● 2435d

They are still being used in Ealing.  There is nothing to stop peolple moving them when they have been dumped (or perhaps moved deliberately to irritate).  There is also nothing to stop people who can't move them themselves being constructive in reporting them instead of just whingeing online here where  it won't change things.

Philippa Bond ● 2435d

There is some debate as to whether vandalism and theft were the reasons for withdrawing from Manchester. Mobike may be reluctant to admit it just wasn't very popular there. They have already made the decision to withdraw from Ealing and that isn't because they are claiming W5 residents are more criminally inclined.It does however seem to be more popular in Chiswick and Acton and when I park a bike on my road (carefully avoiding any obstructions) it is rarely still there when I return so people are finding it useful. In that sense people have already effectively been consulted and it was a no from Ealing and a yes from Chiswick and Acton.

Mark Evans ● 2440d

I am the author of the petition.The Petition was not "rejected`" but it did not attract sufficient signatures to guarantee a council debate.I will however seek to ask a question in chamber which has initially been informally approved.The objective of the petition was to ask the council to offer a public consultation in the way that Hounslow council have and I remain convinced it is reasonable to ask the public what they thinkI offer an apology for accepting and representing press coverage about the dockless bike scheme leaving Manchester partly driven by Mobike's own publicity about their experiences with stolen and vandalised bikes.

Don Tanswell ● 2440d

That’s terrible. They are just left lying about and in the way a lot of the time. Certainly a trip hazard and not great for anyone such as yourself or anyone pushing a pram. Maybe they should have dedicated zones for people to leave them in.

Simon Hayes ● 2445d

I think the bikes are a good idea. If only the users would think about where they leave them. The other day coming along Lower Boston Rd, in my wheelchair & one was left in the middle of the pavement, the only way I could go was out into the Road via a drop kerb to get past it. SCARY YES.

Peter Jones ● 2445d

As you say, you are no lawyer. The difference here is that a wheelie bin should be identifiable as belonging to a particular property. Householders are under a duty of care to keep them safely. They are not supposed to be left on the pavement (as it says on the Council’s own website).Where does the duty of care lie with these bikes? They seem to be randomly left around the streets.

Simon Hayes ● 2445d

I'm no lawyer but wouldn't you have to prove negligence in a case such as you describe? You could use the same argument for wheelie bins.

Mark Evans ● 2445d

The thought that struck me about them was who is liable if they get blown over and cause damage to property or, worse, injure someone? As they are left anywhere, is it the last person to ride it, the Council or Mobike?A lot were blown over in South Ealing during the strong winds a couple of weeks ago.

Simon Hayes ● 2445d

Well done to the council for rejecting this petition which seems to have got fewer signatures than there are people using Mobikes in the borough every week. It's just a shame that they have been withdrawn from Ealing - it's so convenient to have them in Acton.

Mark Evans ● 2445d

It's a start.

Paul James ● 2446d

Would be interesting to see what the breakdown of those rides are (per user for example), including if those users own a motor vehicle?Considering there are over 300,000 people living in Ealing it's not so impressive. (Approx <1%)

Lee Page ● 2446d

Great to hear that so many members of the Ealing community are taking advantage of this service.

Paul Scullion ● 2446d