Forum Topic

Why did we sign In with the EU in the first place?

Surely we  all thought that Freedom of Movement meant that we could enter or leave with respect to each country's established ways of life whilst here. I don't think it was to abuse the law of Human rights or to give over the controls over Immigration to the likes of those who come here with Ideas that are controversial and often difficult to the community already established. It seemed possible that the wrong sorts of Freedoms were also the rights  demanded bya minority over all others.The EU did not meet to discuss the issues that made ordinary folk afraid to speak freely and openly.Instead they pushed us into a corner and our own lot with self interests gave the EU the advantage of continuing to play the top-dog. So THANKS to our former partners but NO THANKS TO THE CARRY ON OF Open Immigration without safeguards.

Os A Whittle ● 2568d12 Comments

Merkel wanted people to vote for the established party when Syriza nearly won. The time spent before Syriza won the next election allowed the Banks time to build their defences in case Greece defaulted. So then Greece lost any bargaining power and headed into Austerity. I would say that the swindle was from a much smaller group. The big danger is that May with be horrible and useless but the question is who will lead the Tory party after her!! I hope it is not Boris as he is an appalling character who has lied in recent years to not only the country but also more crucially to his wife.  Yes so for me the only answer at the moment with the divisions is a kind of common market 2 option. we stay in the common market but cease to be part of the EU project.

Peter Chadburn ● 2566d

Not quite peter, more than half the greek population corruptly swindled the EU, as revealed by their own government.Merkel did urge people to vote for Syriza, but so did every single government of every single country in Europe. Having said that, when was the last time you voted the way you did because a foreign government told you to do it?I cannot agree with you more about the EU superstate policy.  It took the right of self determination out of the hands of the individual. Their right over my self determination stopped at the Isle of Wight. They need to put the bus into reverse.The problem of immigration became a problem after Ukip's racist leader Farage, backed up by the racist Boris Johnson  lied to everyone. The now nationally famous photoshopped picture of a line of muslim refugees fronted by the racist Farage, and the racist johnston's lie about the £350 million are examples. Both have proven to be compulsive liars, and very publicly so. As well as both of those ultra racists we also had the Kremlin doing its thing with their bots pushing out over a million tweets, texts, and videos a day across the entire global social media, and suddenly we are leaving the EU

Dennis Bailey ● 2566d

Yes Dennis i don't deny that previous Greek governments were corrupt and that the Greek nation has been ripped off as well as the Banks. But Angela Merkel by telling the Greek people not to vote for Syriza and to keep the existing clowns in power a bit longer did not help. The mess Syriza inherited and that the Greek people are suffering from has led to higher unemployment and a stagnating economy. The fault lays with the EU for allowing the Euro to become a Political project towards a superstate rather than an Economic tool for mutual benefit. If Countries that could not comply with the entry conditions had not been allowed in it would have been a Political embarrassment and would have forced Countries to work towards a goal that might have made the Euro viable. If France, Italy, Greece, Portugal, etc had been forced to wait it would have affected the currencies of those countries. But the European Project glossed over these issue on the basis of their ego and ambition. the poor with austerity are those in the firing line.as for the free movement argument yes that is so true. Some of the myths about people are disgraceful that are peddled by the brexit supporting press. About Bulgarians especially. I know some Bulgarians including some Gypsy people with degrees who worked hard in low paid work here. Very decent people and now they have moved to Germany to work as London became too expensive to live with a young baby. Our government chose not to implement restrictions because it suited the big business donors that New Labour and the Tories relied on. I know Italian, Polish and Portuguese here who all worked very hard and mainly have very good qualifications. The attitude promoted by Boris and the brexit press in demonising these people in the eyes of the english is disgusting. People see that building work is being carried out by teams of Poles whilst our youngsters cant get jobs and the simple answer is big business and government. Many of the apprenticeship schemes are not very good from what i have heard from people working on them. So our problems can not be blamed on immigrants but directly on government

Peter Chadburn ● 2566d

From what i recall, in 2012 the Greek politicians were referring to tax evasion as a national sport. 24% of their GDP was estimated to be under the tax radar, and that said everyone was involved, rich and poor.When the first loan was given the greeks promised to start paying their taxes, they even promised to real in it's runaway public spending. Once they had the money though Greece, backed by the greek electorate decided to say up yours to the EU requirements of the loan and kept the money, and they did it twice. If someone did that to me i would have walked away. The EU, and i take my hat to them for doing it, came back a third time. This time though we refused to hand the money over until they could prove they were doing something to fix the country wide policy of freeloading off of everyone else. In 2009 31% (€28 billion) of their budget deficit was down to tax evasion. According to the Greek finance minister €28 billion was amassed in swiss banks using 10'000 offshore companies while we threw money at them.In 2017 the Greek think tank DiaNEOsis estimated that between 6% and 9% of their GDP is uncollected taxes, so the carrot and stick approach of the third loan is very much working.

Dennis Bailey ● 2567d

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/06/free-movement-isnt-free-truth-about-eu-immigration

Philippa Bond ● 2567d

Yes Dennis with the Euro several Countries did not qualify but of course the Greeks invented democracy so they had to be in. Amongst with several other countries. So the Political expediency overruled Economic common sense. So then money was used to bribe countries and this was spent on German Tanks. So much of the grants for countries as part of the Euro Launch was used for vanity. At least the Irish spent theirs on education and infrastructure. So the Greek Austerity hit the poor and the lower middle pay bracket but not the people that ripped the state off. Lower paid people pay their taxes. But this meant that Democracy had to be abandoned in Greece as Angela Merkel effectively ran Greece. So the Consequences of the Euro show that there was not the proper governance in order to make it work. That is the fault of the Vanity of the European Project. The Greek people did not deserve that. But a large number of the population were hung out to dry whilst the wealthy bought their apartments in London. I am so glad we are not in the Euro as it has screwed the countries around the edges. Portugal lost a lot of manufacturing as the EU expanded. So we see a European Project where Goldman Sachs ends up running countries rather than the people.

Peter Chadburn ● 2567d

Actually the Greeks screwed themselves, almost killing Europe in the process.They used cooked books to join, then they continued cooking the books for twenty odd years to claim benefits that they were never entitled to. If i remember right, 50% of the country never paid their taxes. It wasn't until they joined the euro that their criminality was found out. Having been found out they tried to play the victim. We gave them money on the promise that they would stop extracting the urine, they took the money, twice i think, and told everyone to shove it afterwards, hence the trouble they are in now.

Dennis Bailey ● 2568d

Yes the Common Market has changed from cooperation which is brilliant to a kind of rule from the centre. So the Greeks, Portuguese, Southern Italians and all around the edges get screwed whilst the centre (including London and South east) get richer and stronger. The European Project is a vision starting with the Euro to create a European superstate with it's own army and foreign policy. However it has a danger of becoming a dictatorship of 250 million people by just a central power bloc. When we see populist responses around Europe it is obvious that people are not happy with this approach. But the lesson is that the remainers of London don't realise is that the northerners are not thick leave voters but people who feel that no one cares about them. Multiply this by  and you have the basic flaw in the European Project. Yes reduce barriers, cooperate more and enjoy travelling and working in each others country but don't stick us in a one size fits all Europe. Since Maastricht this has been the Vision of the egos of Brussels. There is a claim that the EU has prevented war in Europe. It is our memory (now fading) or war and sense of common interest that has prevented war. So the common market to me was great to Join and i was a traitor that voted for it as a young man back then. I voted remain this time because despite have plenty of criticism's of the EU i did not like the message coming from Farage, Banks and the other Russian stooges and also knew that Boris and other members of the Trump fan club are not to be trusted.

Peter Chadburn ● 2568d

As i was there, it WAS about joining that lot over the channel. It was decided by 17,378,581 "traitors" as you called them.

Dennis Bailey ● 2568d

1975 was not about the EU. It was like a woman made to have a shot gun wedding, no consent asked, and now with a five year old is asked if she minded. HW did it to unite Labour.

Graham Weeks ● 2568d

On 5th June 1975 17,378,581 people, or 67.23% of the electorate voted for membership, and 8,470,073 people, or 32.77% of the electorate voted to leave. The turnout for this, our first ever referendum was 64.62%, or 40,086,677 people.Strangely, the same argument for not having a third referendum "because it would be undemocratic" also invalidates the second one.Here endeth the history lesson.

Dennis Bailey ● 2568d

We never signed in with the EU. Heath et al took us into something called the Common Market which we were assured was for trade not political union.You were fooled by traitors and liars.

Graham Weeks ● 2568d