Forum Topic

Consultation on Electric Vehicle Charging Points: List of Roads:  Deadline 14 Dec 2018

https://www.ealing.gov.uk/evchargingealing

Philippa Bond ● 2578d42 Comments

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/electrifying-future-for-food-waste-charity-a8534866.htmlHopefully more fleets will go in this direction

Philippa Bond ● 2544d

https://www.sourcelondon.net/about-source-london

Philippa Bond ● 2562d

I've gone through a few. There has been almost no thought into some of the positionings, almost to the point of total arrogance designed to shaft the locals. It's as though this was planned by six year olds with little or no research.Check out the Clitherow Avenue plan then click on the link below. They seem to plan on installing them right across two properties that have paid hefty sums to have dropped curbs installed so they can have off street parking. Then check out how congested the parking is down that avenue.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4990989,-0.3259059,3a,75.1y,93.4h,80.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKVkQJBFA_LMoMy5qL6CMJQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Dennis Bailey ● 2562d

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/transport/electric-vehiclesHave you checked out the system proposed?

Philippa Bond ● 2562d

You are right - it would be.  I already find it awesome that this form of transport gives such freedom to individuals who would have difficulty travelling on public transport.  I met a lady in South Ealing Road who travelled to the markets in Acton and Dukes Meadows on one!

Philippa Bond ● 2562d

I think it would be awesome if Motability registered scooters received the same consideration. Being able to charge up away from home would widen a disabled persons scope for living beyond their wildest dreams. The size of the scooters would be reduced as well.

Dennis Bailey ● 2563d

It is important that all public charge points are compatible so that ALL electric and Plug In Hybrids can use them with a universal payment method (ie credit card not membership card).

Richard Morse ● 2563d

....good grief, the immaturity of some adults is just amazing.

Dennis Bailey ● 2565d

I'm not anti car, I have a driving licence and I use them...

Paul James ● 2565d

That Paul, sums up my comment, you only see one side, you are blinded by your own views, also my point was not on the points of the discussion, just that when anyone discusses with you and has a alternative view, you dismiss them with your own glorified views, also in this case you have taken away from the fact that Ealing are installing Electric charging points, something that will benefit many people, to yet again an anti car debate, so maybe it is you who is the dinosaur. Unfortunately this is becoming a trait in this country, Cycling Groups, Vegan Groups, Brexit etc we can't discuss anymore without someones views being forced on to others, or even compromise.

Declan Devine ● 2565d

Dennis, for the hard of understanding bikes take up MUCH less space than cars.Here's a picture of you in case you have trouble, er, picturing this:http://www.bikehub.co.uk/news/sustainability/iconic-waste-of-space-photo-keeps-on-giving/

Paul James ● 2565d

Hi DeclanJust in case you didn't notice, my lot are winning the argument and your lot are losing and looking very much like dinosaurs!

Paul James ● 2565d

Please stick to reality. I said "Maybe limiting cars and pedal bikes to one registered car and cycle per address would reduce congestion. Maybe even force cyclists to undergo training with a licence at the end of it."Only you could equate that to every household has a car or everyone owns a car.Also 35% of people over the age of 16 cycle debunking your claim that it reduces congestion.https://www.cyclinguk.org/resources/cycling-uk-cycling-statistics#How%20many%20people%20cycle%20and%20how%20often?

Dennis Bailey ● 2566d

>Maybe limiting cars and pedal bikes to one registered car and cycle per address would reduce congestion. Dennis, if each address in London had one car, you wouldn't be able to move for cars.As I said earlier car owners are VERY lucky not everybody has a car, if they did they'd have to stack them three high I imagine.Cycles are an answer to congestion, cars are a cause of it.

Paul James ● 2566d

Maybe limiting cars and pedal bikes to one registered car and cycle per address would reduce congestion. Maybe even force cyclists to undergo training with a licence at the end of it.Whatever the solution is both are out of control, not just one group.

Dennis Bailey ● 2566d

Simon, there is just no point discussing anything to do with, cars, roads, bikes or public transport with Paul , as you are just wasting your time, he will only see one side of any discussion, HIS !

Declan Devine ● 2566d

If they want to buy a car then all well and good. There is no law against it. Until such time that there is, then I defend the right of anybody to own a car should they choose to do so.OF course, living in the real world I know there are any number of practical matters which likely preclude them from doing so.

Simon Hayes ● 2566d

I like living in and among people.People don't mean cars, in fact many many people in London don't have cars.Can you imagine if tomorrow every single London resident above 17 that didn't already have one went out and purchased a car?As a car owner you are very very lucky they don't, and you certainly don't appear to appreciate this.

Paul James ● 2566d

Paul. If you really dislike the crowded roads so much it might be best for you to consider moving out of London to somewhere with a more 'enlightened' attitude. I hear some of the remoter regions of Africa are pretty car free. Plenty of space for you and your bike out there.

Simon Hayes ● 2566d

>Your argument about road subsidies is self-defeating. Taxes are raised for any number of things. I don't own a gun or support wars abroad, yet my taxes are used to pay for the armed forces. Should I ask for a refund on that?My argument was to show that the people that say "as a motorist I pay for the roads and cyclists don't" is silly and wrong.My motorway argument was an example of putting this attitude on the other foot and how absurd this argument is.We ALL pay for the streets and roads through various taxes, and so it should be that way, they are a shared resource, even if you don't have a car.>Vehicle drivers pay a lot of tax through fuel duty. Where do you think that money is spent by the Government?We all pay fuel tax through fuel duty, when we use a bus for instance, part of the fair covers the cost of fuel.>Where do you think that [fuel duty] money is spent by the Government?Everywhere. Are you suggesting fuel duty is hypothecated for spending on roads?Our streets are currently greatly monopolised by motorised vehicles. You don't appear to be able to see this. this needs to be re-balanced.

Paul James ● 2566d

Paul, you really need to stop telling people what you think they should think.Private motor vehicle ownership is a choice that is made on the basis of need. Not everyone can rely on bikes or public transport - you make your choice, I make mine.Your argument about road subsidies is self-defeating. Taxes are raised for any number of things. I don't own a gun or support wars abroad, yet my taxes are used to pay for the armed forces. Should I ask for a refund on that?Taxes fund the NHS, yet there are many people who rarely use the service and a good number who never see a doctor or need hospital treatment. Should they ask for their money back as well?Roads are not there just for cars - what do your buses travel on? How does your Amazon delivery arrive? Where does the Royal Mail direct its vans and lorries?Vehicle drivers pay a lot of tax through fuel duty. Where do you think that money is spent by the Government?The fact is, Paul, we live in a modern society where roads are an important component of how we go about our daily lives. They are there to be SHARED, not for the monopoly of one individual group, be that cyclists, car drivers or lorries.

Simon Hayes ● 2566d

>Paul, you seem to be as rabid a cycle fascist as Julian Bell and his cronies in the Town Hall.I sometimes cycle, I sometimes walk, I sometimes drive (full clean licence holder and I use car club cars when I need one), I sometimes take public transport.But, I do think the private motor vehicle is having far too grater adverse impact on the quality of life in our towns and cities. So do you.> We all pay tax, through a variety of means, all of which goes to pay for the infrastructure of this country.Precisely my point, we ALL pay for the roads, not just drivers as others are trying to assert.And when you add in the consequences of cars, there is quite a lot of evidence that private motorised transport is actually heavily subsided by the taxpayer.>You state that goods need to be transported on our roads - quite how is this to happen without motor vehicles?I'm not saying they should be banned outright, why are you suggesting this?The royal mail for years has used bikes as a way of getting stuff around for instance.And have you not heard of cargo cycles?>By the way, why not cycle up to Hanwell Post Office and look at the sign over the front door there - in large letters it proclaims you can pay your ROAD TAX there!It's not Road tax, it's VED. The post office is making the same mistake as you.

Paul James ● 2566d

Paul, you seem to be as rabid a cycle fascist as Julian Bell and his cronies in the Town Hall. While cycling is enjoyed by many, it's not everyone's favoured mode of transport - you cannot dictate what other people should or should not be doing.It's not 'your' road. I don't see anything, anywhere, that says the roads belong to one Paul James of Ealing. We all pay tax, through a variety of means, all of which goes to pay for the infrastructure of this country.You state that goods need to be transported on our roads - quite how is this to happen without motor vehicles? Magic carpet perhaps? Or do you have a plan for the world's first HGV bicycle?The problem in the UK, and London in particular, is that there are a variety of vehicles jostling for use on roads that were designed over 100 years ago. I've long advocated that cars should be made smaller - there's no justification for the size of many modern cars. Smaller cars weigh less and consume less fuel. But until manufacturers are compelled to make their vehicles smaller, then people will still buy them.By the way, why not cycle up to Hanwell Post Office and look at the sign over the front door there - in large letters it proclaims you can pay your ROAD TAX there!

Simon Hayes ● 2566d

Not all motorists pay VED, many motor vehicles are exempt for a variety of reasons, and as a non polluting form of transport so are cycles.VED is a charge for polluting in public, it's not spent in roads, did you not read the article?If you want to go down that route as a cyclist and pedestrian i want my tax back for motorways, which i can't use...Also did you just say bicycles were out on roads before motor vehicles ;)

Paul James ● 2566d

Well that's not true. Motorists pay a premium above and beyond that which cyclists pay. The evidence is kind of in your face. "in fact, roads are specifically for carrying people and goods, not vehicles" is also incorrect. Roads are there purely to separate the pedestrian from wheeled transport, and serve no other purpose. It evolved that way centuries ago to stop vehicles and cyclists from killing us pedestrians.

Dennis Bailey ● 2566d

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/people/russell-crowe-follows-in-the-footsteps-of-workers-as-he-rides-into-portsmouth-dockyard-1-3672170

Paul James ● 2567d

>Cyclists, while I "resoect their right" to use the roads, pay nothing. Contribute nothing.What utter bilge. As a group they work and pay taxes like anybody else.>Roads are essential for deliveries & every day goods we all useWho said they weren't.In fact, roads are specifically for carrying people and goods, not vehicles.

Paul James ● 2567d

As a life long public transport only user i advocate banning banning all private ownership of all private transport that involves the wheel, it has done enough damage. I was borne in an era when there were only the odd one or two cars in each road, and very few rode a cycle. Fat people would disappear, local commerce would come back, most crime would disappear, and communities would have their spirit reinvigorated.https://www.ealingclub.com/wp-content/uploads/allhailsEalingBdway.jpg

Dennis Bailey ● 2568d

Cyclists, while I "resoect their right" to use the roads, pay nothing. Contribute nothing.Woohoo they dont pollute, yet they use roads & the infrastructure scott free with impunity.Roads are essential for deliveries & every day goods we all use

Peter Yale ● 2568d

Oh dear Simon.Roads are not paid through by road tax. In fact, road tax doesn't exist, it was abolished in the 1940s to be replaced by VED which is a charge for polluting in public.You won't find any government materials that refer to it as road tax.It just goes into a general taxation pot, and doesn't even cover the cost of roads anyway.Local roads are paid for by out of your council tax, there's even a line on the bill for it."Nor do they contribute to the cost of building cycle lanes."Are you kidding? I pay my council tax as do other people that cycle, I also pay many other taxes which are used to fund our streets.In fact, I bet I pay more tax than you do, so get orf my roads!Please read this, educate yourself before you make yourself look even more sillyhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23694438https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23694438

Paul James ● 2568d

Owning a car no longer has the cachet that it used to.  It has not been that long a love affair.  My FIL used to guess what make of car was coming when he was a child and wave at them.  The RAC used to salute members' cars when they passed by.We need to go back to public transport - only cleaner and better, walking and using bicycles.  It's more difficult now that we expect to go everywhere and anywhere at the drop of a hat.  Just be logical - there isn't room for every individual to park and drive a car.  We need to plan more again.  With an app on a smartphone nowadays you can find out where parking is available and book it. There are tradesmen who you may need to visit whose ability to park is more important than having a permanent car park of residents' cars that hardly move or move for journeys which could easily be reorganised to cause less congestion and less pollution.

Philippa Bond ● 2568d

There is no such thing as Road Tax.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23694438The money just goes to the Treasury.

Philippa Bond ● 2571d

PaulI know you are a gung-ho cycling fanatic but you have missed the point.Millions of people own cars and have to park them on the street. It's not an exclusively London issue, as you probably know. While I suspect that you would like to see every vehicle disappear, that's not going to happen unless you propose to go back to the 17th Century. Perhaps while there you could say hello to Jacob Rees-Mogg.The fact is, and you've been told this before, roads are paid for through road tax - which all law-abiding car owners pay. Cyclists pay nothing to use them. Nor do they contribute to the cost of building cycle lanes.I don't cycle, but I pay Council Tax and parking permit charges and road tax. It's some of my money that's paid for your cycle lanes and bike stores in the borough.Perhaps you should think about a bike tax to help towards infrastructure costs.

Simon Hayes ● 2571d

SimonWhy do you think you're even allowed to leave your private property out in public in the first place?Parking is MASSIVELY subsidised. If you were charged for the space your car takes up at the going rate for inner city space it would cost you hundreds of pounds a month.In the meantime cars left along side the road cause blind spots and danger to people, and block space for people that really need to use then to get around.

Paul James ● 2571d

Does this help?http://ukevse.org.uk/charge-points-chargers/charge-point-compatibility-2/There is also this map of where there are charging points and more about Source London:https://www.sourcelondon.net/about-source-london

Philippa Bond ● 2571d

In Paris there are hydrogen taxis. As usual we are behind. Hybrids still use petrol however they are due to be banned as well I read.

Nicholas Beard ● 2571d

I have just read ministers are telling electric car manufacturers that they must make life easier for electric car drivers. One major step would be to make all charging plugs the same. I noted this on the M1 in a services. Plenty of charging points but I noticed all the Nissan/Renault points were being used. So although there were empty points if you were in a Renault you had to wait for somebody to finish. What are the council going to install?

Nicholas Beard ● 2571d

https://www.uber.com/en-GB/blog/a-cleaner-future-for-our-cities/

Philippa Bond ● 2572d

Given the appalling recycling rates we currently enjoy - and Ealing Council is no great leader in salvaging what we give them but that's another story - it's likely that there will be inevitable dumping of components if it's too expensive to be recycled properly.I suspect the petro-chemical industry, which is a powerful lobbying force, will get involved in the debate. Personally I think hybrid vehicles are the way forward for now. They have a good distance range, are suitable for city driving and clearly have a lengthy lifespan judging by the number of Lexus and the like used as minicabs in London.

Simon Hayes ● 2572d

That is something that scares me, the highly toxic batteries that all have a limited lifespan. Can you imagine what they would do to a river?

Dennis Bailey ● 2572d

The batteries are a big problem for the futre. Remember the fridge mountain? There will be an increasing number of these to dispose of in the futre and they are bigger than phone batteries. What I dont understand is the lack of talk about LPG cars. Can someone explain the drawbacks of these please?

Nicholas Beard ● 2572d

People should really have a long hard think about this and quite how electric vehicle charging fits in with the road layouts and existing infrastructure in Ealing.Fine to put charging points in designated car parks - such as you find at Brentford Fountains Leisure Centre. Not so fine to remove parking spaces in areas where there are already existing pressures on parking. Especially when many of these charging points are likely to be vacant for much of the time.The Council want to roll out charging points across the borough on the pretext that it will benefit the environment. However, reducing parking spaces for what will be for the foreseeable future the majority of vehicles, which are petrol and diesel driven, will add to pollution as drivers travel around looking for spaces.Ealing Council are hell bent on monetising our roads to boost its coffers. That's why there are so many odd restrictions already in place, such as the turning regulations at Longfield Avenue by the Town Hall. The electric charging scheme is another money making plan. Have no doubt that the Council will make substantial amounts from leasing parking spaces to the charging company.By the same token the Council want residents to request charging points on lamp posts in their streets, for a fee of £500. You might eventually get some of this money back, up to 50 per cent, but there's no guarantee. Yet, most roads in Ealing have insufficient lamp posts to meet the supposed demand. There are 14 lamp posts in my road, but 100 plus vehicles. How do you guarantee you can charge your car when you need to? Obviously you can't. Not something the Council has cared to consider.There's a lot of guff talked about electric vehicles being the future, yet little consideration is given to the environmental impact of what goes into the batteries that power them. A lot of nasty stuff, and how much of that is salvaged when they have to be scrapped? These batteries have a finite lifespan (rather like your phone ones).If it's clean air the Council is after, then they would be better advised to introduce a congestion zone scheme across the borough to deter car use. And ramp up charges in public car parks to encourage public transport to be used instead. However, even Julian Bell isn't that much of an idiot that he would risk losing his cushy job by alienating all the voters in his ward with such schemes. Far easier to pick on the people who have no option but to have a car.The best option might be to harness the hot air that emanates from the Council Chamber to power everything in Ealing.....

Simon Hayes ● 2572d