Forum Topic

Warren Farm

Is it just me, but has the Council not missed a trick by allowing QPR to have Warren Farm rent free for 200 years?I'd have thought charging a sensible commercial rate to utilise public land for private use would have swelled the Town Hall's coffers at a time of such financial hardship for local authorities.I'm not convinced that we will see the benefit of the 'millions of pounds' the football club is allegedly pumping into sports facilities for public use on the site. I've asked for details from the Council on this but there has been nothing forthcoming.

Simon Hayes ● 2370d24 Comments

QPR have made a public commitment to the community and when you look at the clubs record they have an involvement together with the QPR Trust to develop links with the local community. Without these links smaller clubs will just wither and die. In a sense Ealing could have got a better deal by selling off half the land for development!!imagine the noise if they did!! The problem for QPR is that their training facilities are spread over 2 sites currently and are not their own facilities. At least this means they can design their own buildings to be used with good quality pitches. It is also odd the way people claim QPR are going to make millions out of Warren Farm?? I find that an other strange one.

Peter Chadburn ● 2363d

Wouldn't it be funny if QPR decided they didn't want it after all! Tony Fernandes and his partners wrote off £180m loans they made to the club then he steps down as chairman. Anyone want to buy a football club?I don't share the faith some forum members have that a private business would honour any commitment to the community if they do get their hands on our priceless green space.I agree with the original point that the rent for 200 years should be considerably higher. Whatever conclusion Bell ended up coming to when settling on this deal, he's not put himself in a very favourable light.

Alan Anderson ● 2363d

Very true Simon. Councils can always find money when they want it. neglect is a convenient tool. I always feel that the Bell regime is very much a "New Labour" Blair/Brown enterprise where spin and PFI style management were part of the ethos. I was surprised by the announcement that refuse collection was coming back in house. But the increasing costs of these contracting out functions must mean that people are starting to realise the awful value they represent. QPR must be relieved that they can get on with the job but if they knew beforehand that it was going to take this time i am sure they would have looked elsewhere.

Peter Chadburn ● 2363d

Like anything, be it your house or car, if you don't look after it eventually it will fall apart. The scandal at Warren Farm is that successive administrations left it to rot. This is despite it being well used over the years by football clubs and the like, all of whom paid pitch fees. That money was obviously hived off elsewhere rather than being reinvested.We see the same situation obtaining at Ealing Town Hall, where we are told by Mr Bell that the state of repair means it's not effective to fund. And yet the Victoria Hall there has been hired out over the years but with no proper accounts kept and thus no money put into maintenance and repair.It's all very convenient for the Council to say let's get private businesses in to run these things, with the argument that it's 'at no cost to the taxpayer', and yet in the long run there is always a cost to the taxpayer, whether it's through a lack of facilities (or massively reduced ones in the case of the new Central Library currently being developed) or paying more to use the new, privately run ones.

Simon Hayes ● 2363d

Yes the lack of Scrutiny is a long standing issue. But neglect of facilities such as there and at gunnersbury park show that councils are looking for convenient ways of offloading responsibilities. But surely the costs of in -house lawyers dwarf the cost of the survey!! and also the maintenance costs. but investment would have been needed and i guess that although the running costs might have been estimated at £37,000 per year. How much would refurbishment cost???

Peter Chadburn ● 2363d

It's a very strange length of lease. One can only presume there will be regular review periods built in to ensure that the football club is fulfilling whatever covenants are built into the agreement.It's sad for existing users of Warren Farm, whose numbers have dwindled over the years due to the scandalous neglect of the facilities. According to the Warren Farm campaign group it would cost about £37,000 a year to maintain the facilities in a usable state. Strangely, the council managed to find £35,000 for a pointless survey it wants carried out about its performance.Don't forget that the sports facilities QPR does put in are unlikely to be free of charge to use, so there is likely to still be a cost to the taxpayers of Ealing.As far as the costs of the litigation are concerned, the Council is obliged to defend any action brought against it for decisions it makes. There are inevitably costs associated with that, although it has its own legal team in-house so those costs are covered. What is extra are barrister fees, which are always high.However, occasionally the Council does lose such actions, most recently the case of Southall Town Hall. It is also likely to face action over the disposal of Ealing Town Hall for private development.While it's not ideal for individuals or pressure groups to have to take such steps, there is such a lack of scrutiny of this administration, and a constant spinning of the facts, that it's really the only way to keep the rampant egos running the borough in check.

Simon Hayes ● 2364d

Given the QPR Involvement within the community i would think that the community will get a good deal from coaching and facilities such as floodlit pitches. But it all seems a real waste of time and money. The initial question on process and all the appeals have delayed the project which has been scaled down from the original plan. Yes the processes of the council need to be held to account but all these years of delays are just pointless.

Peter Chadburn ● 2364d

Sad that the Council doesn't have the confidence of a lot of people on this.  200 years is a long time so I hope they are really sure that the majority of their residents will be getting a good deal.

Philippa Bond ● 2364d

My point was that it would be unlikely even for Ealing Council to go for costs against a community group. The fact that it was the validity of the process was getting questioned. I would expect that the legal bill for LBE would be larger than the community groups fighting them.

Peter Chadburn ● 2364d

Waste more council money finding out that it's nought pounds and nought pee?

Paul James ● 2364d

That is what i thought but i would guess that in this case given the amount that LBE pays out of Barristers fees that any community group taking them on would not be liable for costs. Maybe someone will have to do a FOI request to find out how much money has been wasted on this?

Peter Chadburn ● 2364d

Loser pays is my understanding.

Paul James ● 2364d

What about the amount LBE must have spent on lawyers??

Peter Chadburn ● 2366d

LBE won the case so no costs.

Paul James ● 2368d

Actually QPR were a spectator in this case. The campaigners were taking LBE to court. So the costs must have fallen on us the council tax payers

Peter Chadburn ● 2368d

Can I ask your views on the pitches and natural scrubland lost opposite Wyke Green Golf Club?Zero protest there because it’s a new school? If so, what about the fact half of it is Grasshoppers, a commercial operation I believe?????Football Clubs are community assets I believe, not simply businesses no matter how New age owners treat them as such

Colin Goodman ● 2368d

Come on Colin, take off those blue hooped spectacles for a moment.I played many football matches at Warren Farm in the late 90s/early 00s and the facilities were dire even then. Successive councils had simply allowed things to slide.The pitches were not used for free - we had to cough up a fee every time we booked them, and they weren't cheap. That money, of course, never made it's way back to the sports facilities as investment. If you don't invest in things, you naturally have 'no cost to the taxpayer'. It's not necessarily a good thing.As you must know, anything that deteriorates eventually reaches a point where nobody wants to use it. That's why it's not used much any more. 20 years ago you'd have found dozens of matches being played there over a weekend. As it is, most of the adult leagues in West London have folded, many of them that had clubs based in Ealing. Given that we're all supposed to be leading healthy lifestyles, according to the Council, where are the facilities across the borough for people to use?At Gunnersbury Park, where the facilities were also a disgrace. we are now seeing redevelopment, but of a commercial nature. There will be fewer sports pitches there, but they are allowing Go Ape in, a private enterprise in a public park.My point, made in my first entry on this thread, was that the Council have failed in their duty to obtain the best financial deal from the football club. That money could be used for a host of things, not simply sports grounds, and it would be guaranteed income. This is a prime piece of land for QPR to be gifted. People complained about West Ham getting the Olympic Stadium for next to nothing, but this is equally stupid.

Simon Hayes ● 2369d

I’d ask just what SWF expected our totally skint council to do with this spot? LBE cannot even afford to collect our bleedin’ bins every week, they’re selling off municipal buildings and as per most councils are inept and disorganised The Warren Farm wasteland is almost deserted and not used by the community SWF cherishes so much at all, let’s argue it’s 10% used. I’m unsure on the amount QPR will allow community use but I’d hazard a guess 30% and that’s not accounting for the actual area QPR are not developing So it’s useage by the community could in theory over triple and at no cost to us local tax payers.Rumours that SWF are Bentford season tickets must surely be untrue? Nobody would be that petty and they’d not do that while their attention is on their lovely shiny new ground is built????

Colin Goodman ● 2369d

Sense prevails So.... SWF... have you got funds to pay the legal fees of QPR? It’s a shame you can’t be charged for the scandalous waste of 4 years

Colin Goodman ● 2369d

Whatever we are going to do has to be more positive than it fallen apart and being an attraction for travellers.The dog walkers can go elsewhere as there is plenty of other green space in the area.

Simon Wycombe ● 2369d

I can understand people saying why cant the council build something. but they are never never going to build anything. This QPR deal will mean that something gets done. I have read some wild accusations about what QPR are going to do and that they are going to build housing was the latest because of the recent board appointment. But i know that they have a plan and i cant wait to see something positive occur. let's hope that the search for a new ground is not held up in the same way.

Peter Chadburn ● 2369d

Peter, there is a bit of jealousy to be had here. In particular from our Fulham, Brentford or CFC chums!

Simon Wycombe ● 2370d

As someone who donates to the QPR Community trust i see at regular intervals what the club does. I am sure that they want to develop community involvement in this area as well. With the long term plans to also build a new stadium they will also need people to fill it and so i am sure that will engage with the community and encourage local groups to get involved. The new director who has real estate involvement is more connected with development for the new ground. the current front runner is around the scrubs.  The Grenfell support and other activities that the club does are very important to the communities affected. Many current facilities are appalling. I was horrified when in Gunnersbury park the state of the buildings that i used 40 years ago for playing football. The councils are unwilling to invest in sport. But out of this will come all weather pitches that can be used at night as well. Also there will be a knock on effect of community coaching for the locals.

Peter Chadburn ● 2370d

Do we have any more details of exactly what the public access to this site will be? If it is just all weather pitches and a gym available for hire the facility will have competition from the massive one already under development in Gunnersbury Park.

Andy Jones ● 2370d